|
Does this include sales folks with customer books because if so hooo boy.
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 23:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 5, 2024 00:14 |
|
|
Lockback posted:Does this include sales folks with customer books because if so hooo boy. My guess is that customer books will be considered business-critical / proprietary, and then it'll turn into a game of trying to prove your ex-sales dude poached your customers vs definitely totally didn't, just complete coincidence and that's why my coworker contacted them and not me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 23:22
|
|
|
Yeah, there is a lawsuit going on that is essentially this. A couple traders at Jane Street left, went to Millenium and started doing the same trades that they discovered at Jane Street. Most hedge funds/banks/trading houses have a "non-compete" where they pay the person to not work for 6-12 months, which usually is long enough for their inside information to go stale. Jane Street doesn't and the obvious thing happened. https://newsletterhunt.com/emails/57322
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 23:25
|
|
|
Oil! posted:Yeah, there is a lawsuit going on that is essentially this. A couple traders at Jane Street left, went to Millenium and started doing the same trades that they discovered at Jane Street. Most hedge funds/banks/trading houses have a "non-compete" where they pay the person to not work for 6-12 months, which usually is long enough for their inside information to go stale. Jane Street doesn't and the obvious thing happened. They had a lot of fun discussing this on the Money Stuff podcast. (Oh yeah, Money Stuff has a podcast now.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 23:29
|
|
|
The CEO at my last small job was one of the sales guys that took his book from a prior business to start his own company. He got sued a bunch but nothing ever came of it as far as I'm aware. In true American business spirit, he was determined to stop anyone from doing unto him what he did unto others, and had the most insane non-competes for every position at the company, not just sales. Stuff that was probably unenforceable but nobody wanted to challenge the guys with millions of dollars in court about it. At one point he had us a sign an upgraded version of the non-compete that barred us from working in any field for 2 years that he had any business ideas about. I'd love to see his reaction to this news because I'm sure he's panicking and having his lawyers put together some insane contract for his employees that he thinks will be a loophole around it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 02:09
|
|
|
Oil! posted:Yeah, there is a lawsuit going on that is essentially this. A couple traders at Jane Street left, went to Millenium and started doing the same trades that they discovered at Jane Street. Most hedge funds/banks/trading houses have a "non-compete" where they pay the person to not work for 6-12 months, which usually is long enough for their inside information to go stale. Jane Street doesn't and the obvious thing happened. Isn't that what NDAs are for?
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 04:00
|
|
|
disclosure is to third party, this is competing
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 04:07
|
|
|
There are tons of services and software out there that are totally commoditized. People would happily just follow their account guy and might not even notice where they get the service from. Usually your non compete gives you 3-6 months for the customer to forget the old guy and fall in love with the new one. But now if company A can get that book in between billings certain sectors could get bloody. Non competes on various widget makers in their many forms was always exploitive and frequently unenforceable but protecting customer books had some real purpose in the game.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 04:45
|
|
|
What are your top 10 bloodiest industries for non competes having the biggest impact etc etc For me "sales" is enterprise grade software which has 12-36 month implementation periods and highly sticky If you're a grocer and buy your sweet yams and dragon fruit from one guy, and next week he's got his own fruit distribution company for 1% less than the company he used to work for, I guess? Finance I can half see this but only barely you still need the legal team etc to backstop you
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 07:11
|
|
|
I'm happy for it just because it will kill companies trying to use non-competes to discourage employees seeking better jobs when they treat them like poo poo. The people who are getting a free 12 month vacation when they leave are already generally well compensated and have enough leverage to do poo poo like get those 12 months.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 13:31
|
|
|
Hadlock posted:What are your top 10 bloodiest industries for non competes having the biggest impact etc etc I mean, I'm in financial SaaS so I fully realize I'm not typical but yeah, while enterprise stuff is going to be fine SaaS companies are going to have exposure. Some examples 1. SaaS companies that specialize in delivering key bits of information. Their client books are super important but their service can be copied easily. 2.Small, boutique consulting firms 3. Marketing/SEO firms 4. Financial services companies that provide data rooms, closing services, generate M&A leads, etc 5. Corporate services like relocation I won't go to 10, but companies that provide services that are reasonably commodified but rely on long term customer books will suddenly be super vulnerable. To be clear, I'm not talking about people doing the work or whatever, but the account managers who have the client relationships and who are the ones directly contacted to generate business. I don't think it's going to kill the industry, but all of these pretty critically rely on non-competes to avoid ripping each other apart.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 15:54
|
|
|
Real estate agents, who have to cut their teeth at a brokerage and then when they leave they are more likely to have clients loyal to them, not their brokerage? I feel like that probably already happens anyway though. Tax preparers and accountants. Lawyers, maybe?
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 17:58
|
|
|
all those are based upon partnership models usually, so i guess the commodity businesses that depend upon salespeep facetime will turn into those and give out owning shares to the top salespeeps i dont see this as a problem
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 18:02
|
|
|
If the choice is between how it currently is and no non-competes at all, burn it down. 30 million people in the U.S. being subject to non-competes is nuts.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 18:10
|
|
|
If there is no economic value to your business than the personal relationship the buyer has with the sales team, then the sales team should capture all the profit by leaving and starting their own firm. Free market in action.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 18:14
|
|
|
Not interested in getting deep into the weeds of the social benefit/damage of social media, but Biden just signed the "tiktok bill" https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/24/24139036/biden-signs-tiktok-ban-bill-divest-foreign-aid-package Which basically says the Chinese have to pull out of the US market or sell it off to a wholly us based company (I think?) Anyways this has been a "will they or won't they?" Schrodinger's legislation for... At least a year? With this in play what other pieces of protectionism will Congress pass in the coming months quote:Biden signs TikTok ‘ban’ bill into law, starting the clock for ByteDance to divest it / The legislation requires China-based parent company ByteDance to divest TikTok in nine months to a year in order to avoid an effective ban in the US.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 18:17
|
|
|
Nothingtoseehere posted:If there is no economic value to your business than the personal relationship the buyer has with the sales team, then the sales team should capture all the profit by leaving and starting their own firm. Free market in action. Yeah. But the risk the businesses see is that they have a client list already (that's the value they offer), you get hired, you work their client list, then you leave and take their clients with you. They lose value they started with. But that's nonsense, how did they get those clients to begin with? And what can they offer you to keep you there instead of leaving? They have to scrape some of your generated revenue away in order to pay for whatever they're offering you, so they have to offer something that has an economy of scale: better office space, or retirement benefits or something like that. And you have to see that as being worth more than independence. I honestly don't think this is going to be a gigantic change. Businesses freak out when one guy leaves and takes his clients with him, but lots of people value the security and safety of their current job and surroundings compared to the risk of self-employment. I expect to see some shifting and the power definitely returns a bit more towards the worker but I doubt we'll see whole industries shift to 100% self employment as every firm that pools labor collapses from rampant client theft or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 18:19
|
|
|
Agronox posted:However, this is probably the first economic expansion in my life where income gains are accruing more to the lower-wage workers than the higher: A huge part of this is that a massive of the increase in income in the bottom 50% is not promotions or salary increases in the same position but people leaving behind poo poo companies for less lovely companies. It's well documented that when people switch companies for a better job, they give themselves all the credit rather admit that tight labor markets (a good thing) made it possible. So you have a lot of lower class and middle class workers who are making more than a few years ago even after adjusting for inflation who believe all their gains are due to personal virtue and all the bad things happening are due to the Economy (tm).
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 18:28
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:Yeah. But the risk the businesses see is that they have a client list already (that's the value they offer), you get hired, you work their client list, then you leave and take their clients with you. They lose value they started with. If the only value a company has is their client list and there is literally nothing keeping those clients from walking away than "Bob is the person we've ordered from for years and we like working with Bob" then those places deserve to go under. And if you're that company and you're so dependent on Bob's rolodex to keep the lights on then you better loving pay Bob what he's worth and, I dunno, maybe use the space you just bought yourself with Bob's fat raise to figure out some way to be competitive against your competition.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 18:33
|
|
|
Hadlock posted:
Superficial protectionism, it's not like the Chinese government can't pull sensitive data from any number of other companies. The root problem is letting companies store so much information on us. With no penalty for storing it insecurely except for having to offer a couple months of credit protection. I'm guessing this is probably why so many of our politicians seem to be completely subverted. Has to be trivial for foreign intelligence services to tie anyone of interest to their porn history, or worse. Anyways, I have purchased some X in a gamble that the deal will go through after the election. But I probably bought it too soon. Things are going to get even spicier for sure, in weird ways. I'm gonna be in China for a month right before the election, hopefully we don't kick off while I'm there. More likely we'll have to pay some new taxes to homeland security for being red-china-commie lovers/visitors.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 18:43
|
|
|
boy I sure wouldn't bet on X being the substitute for TikTok. If anything, I think youtube shorts are the closest equivalent
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 18:48
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:boy I sure wouldn't bet on X being the substitute for TikTok. If anything, I think youtube shorts are the closest equivalent On the other hand, can't spell Xi without X. I feel my analysis is at least as rigorous as any of the other tiktok stuff I'm seeing right now 
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 18:56
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:If the only value a company has is their client list and there is literally nothing keeping those clients from walking away than "Bob is the person we've ordered from for years and we like working with Bob" then those places deserve to go under. I had a former co-worker who was once sued by our former employer. The reason was he left the company and the customers followed because he did a great job. It was thrown out of court due lack of evidence or whatever but to this day I thought it was a ton of crap. And this was for tech contracts fixing laptops, printers, etc. under warranty. https://x.com/USChamber/status/1783113130026918245 Looks like they're suing to stop it, (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 19:01
|
|
|
lol "if regulators appointed by our elective representatives get to regulate businesses, why, that's unprecedented and a slippery slope" says obviously totally disinterested group that is completely objective and definitely not blatantly misrepresenting what government is and does checks notes hmm, the "chamber of commerce" is just a pro-business lobby, you say, hmm it's neat how their response is at all newsworthy
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 19:23
|
|
|
Let's keep tweets out of this thread please; you're welcome to link to an original source just not a tweet thanks
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 19:28
|
|
|
if all non-competes involved garden leave at the employers expense i wouldn't give a poo poo, but the non-competes that just effectively bar employees from the industry for a significant period of time stink of concerted wage fixing more than ip protection
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 19:29
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:boy I sure wouldn't bet on X being the substitute for TikTok. If anything, I think youtube shorts are the closest equivalent I think he meant US Steel lol. Xitter isn't a public company anymore.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 20:45
|
|
|
I give it better than 0-odds that Twitter goes public just to secure the ticker
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 20:54
|
|
|
mrmcd posted:I think he meant US Steel lol. Hah! I really thought leperflesh was mildly trolling me. Yep I did mean the other big pressing protectionist "issue" of the day, our steel heading to the orient along with our tiktoks. The ftc is also getting bogged down with "big handbag", tapestry buying capri. This after successfully scuttling the irobot/amazon acquisition. Which probably condemns irobot to bankruptcy, protecting the market share of all the cheap (non-domestic) knockoffs. All the while letting Kroger's buy Albertsons almost untouched. The government strategy is muddled lately, to say the least.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 21:16
|
|
|
wow yeah your post reads completely coherently if it is about buying stock in twitter because you think the deal (banning tiktok or forcing a sale) might go through after the election & while you're in china X, the stock ticker, makes more sense though! e. just another reason why elon musk's insistent branding choice is so loving stupid lol Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Apr 24, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 22:41
|
|
|
Baddog posted:Hah! I really thought leperflesh was mildly trolling me.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 22:45
|
|
|
... california has not had noncompetes for 150 years. washington sometimes has them but lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 22:47
|
|
|
bob dobbs is dead posted:... california has not had noncompetes for 150 years. washington sometimes has them but lol California makes up for it by having illegal blacklists and “no-poach” agreements, through. Where there’s a will, there’s a tech company willing to build an app for it 
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 22:57
|
|
|
they're already illegal, the ftc ruling on them aint gonna stop em
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 22:58
|
|
|
Baddog posted:All the while letting Kroger's buy Albertsons almost untouched. The FTC sued to block this one as well.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 23:32
|
|
|
Agronox posted:The FTC sued to block this one as well. Hah, I actually posted about it and then apparently immediately forgot about it. Getting old. Glad they are taking action on it!
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 00:34
|
|
|
Honestly I know everyone wants to dunk on him but the Biden administration has been the strongest against big business administration in my living memory.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 00:42
|
|
|
GDP figures are out for Q1... NY Times (free link) posted:U.S. Economy Grew at 1.6% Rate in First Quarter We'll see how the market reacts in about 45 minutes...
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 13:54
|
|
|
The market hates it... but I guess this just means interest rates remain high for longer which isn't good news but will hopefully go down before the end of the year?  Or right before the election? 
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 18:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 5, 2024 00:14 |
|
|
Gucci Loafers posted:The market hates it... but I guess this just means interest rates remain high for longer which isn't good news but will hopefully go down before the end of the year? I would think that the slowing growth would be a signal that interest rates would be dropping sooner. But yeah, market doesn't seem happy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 18:17
|
|