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The Voice of Labor
Apr 8, 2020

what's the autmatic trigger for embarrassing war with china set for? when the dollar is used for less than 40% of global transactions?

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Centrist Committee
Aug 6, 2019
there’s not going to be a war with china. the us can’t even fight yemen. as astonishing as it sounds, the us is out of ammo

Best Friends
Nov 4, 2011

The Voice of Labor posted:

what's the autmatic trigger for embarrassing war with china set for? when the dollar is used for less than 40% of global transactions?

But that time America is already crushed but who knows what American elites will believe. right now American elites believe America is still in a position to dictate terms to the world. I’m hoping they continue to suffer this delusion until it’s far too late for America to be a danger.

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




china will make a deal with us and have the chinese armed us military do to europe what weve been doing to the near east

Weka
May 5, 2019

That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.
It is the manifest destiny of the Chinese people to secure Europe's strategic reserves of racism

Centrist Committee posted:

there’s not going to be a war with china. the us can’t even fight yemen. as astonishing as it sounds, the us is out of ammo

Biden: I need ammo not a ride

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
I think someone said that probably one of the best case scenarios for Europe is becoming an open-air museum and tourist trap for people from countries that actually have economies.

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I think someone said that probably one of the best case scenarios for Europe is becoming an open-air museum and tourist trap for people from countries that actually have economies.

venice but the whole continent

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I think someone said that probably one of the best case scenarios for Europe is becoming an open-air museum and tourist trap for people from countries that actually have economies.

unwittingly supporting chinese patriotism

stephenthinkpad
Jan 2, 2020

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I think someone said that probably one of the best case scenarios for Europe is becoming an open-air museum and tourist trap for people from countries that actually have economies.

Turns out the Italians are the smartest guys in Europe.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
northern italy still has some industry tho

not for long though i guess, if your entire region has 3 drops of water for a month every summer there's not much you can do most industrial processes require tons lmao

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




stephenthinkpad posted:

Turns out the Italians are the smartest guys in Europe.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

stephenthinkpad posted:

Turns out the Italians are the wisest guys in Europe.

crepeface
Nov 5, 2004

r*p*f*c*

stephenthinkpad posted:

Turns out the Italians are the smartest guys in Europe.

:discourse:

cagliostr0
Jun 8, 2020

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I think someone said that probably one of the best case scenarios for Europe is becoming an open-air museum and tourist trap for people from countries that actually have economies.

You would need a SMO to defrancify France for this to work though.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
You could easily justify one based on women's rights and minority's religious rights.

Ardennes
May 12, 2002
Admittedly, beyond its own internal market, what does Europe offer the world perhaps tourism and specialty goods (including agriculture)? There isn't natural resources to speak of, and in all honesty, Chinese are being extremely aggressive in traditional European strongpoints such as high-end manufacturing. If the Chinese can start competing in terms of industrial machinery, aerospace, and luxury cars, where is Europe going to go? The US has done a great job at hammering the European MIC, and otherwise, outside its own market, Europe isn't exactly becoming more competitive overseas.

But yeah, at least the Italians have Prada bags, Venice, and Ferraris, that is at least something people will hand over money for.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 12:37 on Jan 3, 2024

OhFunny
Jun 26, 2013

EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC
Iran, Russia agree to ditch dollar, trade in national currencies


quote:

Platforms such as non-SWIFT messaging systems and establishing bilateral brokerage relations using national currencies are now being used by banks and businesses in Iran and Russia, Fars News reported on Wednesday, citing information from the Central Bank of Iran.

In a recent meeting, Governor of the Central Bank of Iran Mohammad-Reza Farzin and his Russian counterpart finalized an agreement to use national currencies in bilateral trade.

I'm surprised that this wasn't already the case, but I suppose such deals and needed mechanisms take time to hammer out.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Ardennes posted:

Admittedly, beyond its own internal market, what does Europe offer the world perhaps tourism and specialty goods (including agriculture)? There isn't natural resources to speak of, and in all honesty, Chinese are being extremely aggressive in traditional European strongpoints such as high-end manufacturing. If the Chinese can start competing in terms of industrial machinery, aerospace, and luxury cars, where is Europe going to go? The US has done a great job at hammering the European MIC, and otherwise, outside its own market, Europe isn't exactly becoming more competitive overseas.

But yeah, at least he Italians have Prada bags, Venice, and Ferraris, that is at least something people will hand over money for.

Europe produces all the best ideas.

webcams for christ
Nov 2, 2005

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I think someone said that probably one of the best case scenarios for Europe is becoming an open-air museum and tourist trap for people from countries that actually have economies.

open-air museums and agriculture for sure. if the global IP regime survives, then plenty of Pharma some bespoke manufacturing. I think they should lean into more and more and more Protected Designation of Origin export goods

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

OhFunny posted:

Iran, Russia agree to ditch dollar, trade in national currencies

I'm surprised that this wasn't already the case, but I suppose such deals and needed mechanisms take time to hammer out.

The problem is probably the Rial.

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

Orange Devil posted:

Europe produces all the best ideas.

china will never catch up to our level of race science.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
If I knew anything about Haplotypes I would now post some insanely wild poo poo to demonstrate. Just pretend I did.

Weka
May 5, 2019

That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

Orange Devil posted:

If I knew anything about Haplotypes I would now post some insanely wild poo poo to demonstrate. Just pretend I did.

the euro haplotype is R

cagliostr0
Jun 8, 2020

Zodium posted:

china will never catch up to our level of race science.

China's race science precedes Dr yakubs wild ride

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

Weka posted:

the euro haplotype is R

Ted Wassanasong
Apr 8, 2020

Weka posted:

They haven't really afaik done this. Those forces have just been relocated to China while still being significantly owned by the west, as if that will make a difference. Then those forces have been leveraged to create more and more productive capacity.

I wonder if we can enforce ownership claims within their shores if they choose not to allow us?

BULBASAUR
Apr 6, 2009




Soiled Meat

In Training posted:

The legal case for seizing Russia's assets - Financial Times

U.S. and Europe Eye Russian Assets to Aid Ukraine as Funding Dries Up - NYT

Biden admin is shifting their position after two years of sitting on the frozen reserve of Russia's USD. Totals $300 billion sitting in the NY Federal Reserve. Can't think of a more self destructive move for the international validity of the dollar as a reserve currency, so they can peel off a couple billion to toss to Ukraine that the American legislature is incapable of providing on their own. Insane tactic, and Biden gave the G7 a February deadline to decide if they're going to go forward with it.

I remember reading that they can't exactly find all 300 billion, so much money its hard to track, so it's probably less but still a colossal amount

stephenthinkpad
Jan 2, 2020
Can not wait to hear how much Russian money will US court award to all kinds of crazy war tourists/Robert Levinson cases.

Plus I heard some early Kinzhal strikes in Ukraine were against foreign military advisers buildings, so they don't even need to make up too much poo poo.

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 6 hours!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAH5-vustgM

Tempora Mutantur
Feb 22, 2005


that's such an obviously superior solution, taking equity stakes instead of forcing debt

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 6 hours!

Tempora Mutantur posted:

that's such an obviously superior solution, taking equity stakes instead of forcing debt

superior for who?

thechosenone
Mar 21, 2009

fart simpson posted:

superior for who?

For anyone who isn't a halfwit, which excludes western leadership and their allies ofc. Even if someone wants to build wealth this gets you more than just pillaging. Ultimately the value of short term thinking only matters short term. Once the West failed to destroy/subvert China immediately it was basically over. They would have had to stay wary for too long to keep China's diligence from slowly destabilizing them by sheer dent of providing an alternative.

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 6 hours!
im not sure it’s superior for the people running the show in america, they want to debt trap everyone

Weka
May 5, 2019

That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.
The debt trap economic strategy is inherently limiting because it keeps the trapped economy small. You can make more money trading with an economy you help grow and is thus bigger. It just takes more than a quarter.

numerrik
Jul 15, 2009

Falcon Punch!

Weka posted:

It just takes more than a quarter.

Yeah, that’s the part that is heresy. Neoliberal capitalism doesn’t consider the long term. As long as things are currently fine, they will always be fine. We’re living in the end of history.

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 6 hours!

Weka posted:

The debt trap economic strategy is inherently limiting because it keeps the trapped economy small. You can make more money trading with an economy you help grow and is thus bigger. It just takes more than a quarter.

it also keeps the trapped economy subservient to you and helps prevent any real rivals from forming in those countries

ikanreed
Sep 25, 2009

I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!
The goal in capitalism is never to make as much wealth as possible.

It's to be the furthest ahead of others.

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 6 hours!

ikanreed posted:

The goal in capitalism is never to make as much wealth as possible.

It's to be the furthest ahead of others.

Weka
May 5, 2019

That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

fart simpson posted:

it also keeps the trapped economy subservient to you and helps prevent any real rivals from forming in those countries

It is supposed to but for instance Laos has the 7th highest imf debt to gdp ratio in the world at 129% and afaik they are not really subservient politically or economically to the USA.

ikanreed posted:

The goal in capitalism is never to make as much wealth as possible.

It's to be the furthest ahead of others.

This I can't argue with.

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crepeface
Nov 5, 2004

r*p*f*c*

crepeface posted:

one of those youtube channels that mirrors pro-Russian/anti-Ukrainian right-wing content got a machine to dictate putin's translated speach about the economy.

the relevant part to this thread is more talk about using digital central bank currencies to get around the dollar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNp1WTmjqu4

transcript:

click to see all the long quotes about mbridge i posted before but ben norton did a summary on it:

quote:

0:00 De-dollarization
6:03 Central bank digital currencies (CBDCs)
10:41 mBridge system
12:24 Why China and other countries use CBDCs
16:43 Surveillance? Or privatized tyranny?
19:54 Why Wall Street opposes CBDCs
25:21 Stability and bank bailouts
27:59 Monetary sovereignty
30:12 mBridge experiments
32:39 International trade (without dollars)
40:10 Why are CDBCs so feared in the US?
41:47 Outro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v61dgvN81n0

had me at de-dollarisation and de-cryptoisation

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