|
okay yeah i'm officially sold on this series. echoing Big Leg about seeing more of how Rouge and Naomi really are but weirdly enough i'm also getting Cowboy Bebop vibes from the way the side characters are handled? i imagine there's gonna be a few more recurring characters than Bebop but having one-ep side characters with enough idiosyncrasies that they feel like actual characters and not cardboard cut-outs was giving me that vibe hardcore, and i like it a lot. (i haven't laughed so hard at an anime in a while when the driver had a "we need a doctor, wait a minute, i am the doctor" moment). more badass fight scenes, the CGI for the transport vehicle looked better than i would've expected, and it looks like they are pacing the exposition slower which should help anyone who was blindsided by the first ep hurling all the terms at you at once
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2024 18:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 03:11 |
|
|
I do hope they elaborate a bit more on the Asimov Code stuff because I'd rather not have just just another Three Laws story, especially so soon after Pluto did a compelling take on just that.
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Jan 18, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2024 18:34
|
|
|
even if it was i wouldn't be disappointed, but so far it feels like it'll just be a side thing, i think Rouge trying to find a personal identity is more likely than the be-all-end-all of "a nean who doesn't follow the Asiimov Code, gadzooks"
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2024 18:40
|
|
|
Technically the robots in Pluto weren't three laws compliant, they didn't automatically serve humans and the only thing stopping them from killing was a strong moral compunction, at least three robots were able to break the prohibition by sheer force of desire to kill. It was their emotions that betrayed humanity.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 06:23
|
|
|
the drum and bass remix of crimson lightning in the end fight was so loving cool. if crimson lightning ends up being a motif and they do a bunch of 90s style remixes of it for the fights i'll be losing my loving mind every time. someone posted earlier that this show it just feels like everyone gave a poo poo - i totally get that, and it's stuff like remixing the main fight theme that makes it feel that way. 2 eps in and i love what they've done so far.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2024 18:47
|
|
|
Alright yeah I'm on board now too. I was put off by how much anime the premiere throws in your face, but this episode does a lot of what I like in anime, so I'm looking forward to the rest of the ride.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2024 21:16
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Anime/status/1749869612815056943?t=r5McZXev_SXplZoYpNUJnQ&s=19 Okay then.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2024 20:15
|
|
|
So it seems that Naomi's relationship with Rouge is more than a little one-sided with how she treated Rouge this episode, though she at least has a bit of self reflection compared to the reservation guards who would straight up kill a Nean child for sport if the doctor didn't stop them with a nectar bribe. Mostly a setup episode. Giallon has a Nean named Duma inside the reservation who looks like he's screwing over the CFN Neans for the sake of the violent Nean group called Altar. That ending was abrupt as hell and I don't think it was my stream acting up. Flying carnival airship for two seconds and then bang right into the ED credits. Giallon better show up next week in full clown mode. A bit of a step down from the first two episodes with more time dedicated to introducing concepts and themes than to telling this week's adventure. Looks to be the start of a two or multi-parter.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2024 20:27
|
|
|
Definitely leaves a bit to be desired, but was some nice and breezy world building. We'll see what hubbub comes next week.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2024 17:35
|
|
|
Definitely a slower episode, but I found a lot to talk about anyway lol. Let's see if I can condense this into few enough words that I don't feel like I've gone insane. On the Nine and their "ids": It's interesting to me that they're called "ids". Because that's a psychological term, and could suggest they have some function in storing or generating the personality, rather than being "power cores" or "transformation devices" (or solely those things). I'm wondering if Aletheia could reconstitute the dead members of the Nine by placing these ids in new bodies. I briefly considered the possibility that Rouge is that sort of creature, but- as far as we know- only three of the Nine have died so far and all three of those ids are accounted for. On Neans and the reservation: Something I've been trying to keep an eye on while watching is the nature of the Neans and their position in society. How "human" are they, whether they're mechanical or organic or something in between, how they're treated by the people around them and how those people think about them. Just trying to pin down the parameters of the scenario, so to speak. It's been pretty clear right from the off that Neans are people, and a very human sort of people, but what this episode made very clear to me is that the humans in the show are also very clear that Neans are people. In a lot of other robots-are-people stories the personhood of the robots is an unrealised fact or a topic of open debate- the humans are granted a certain psychological distance from the fact that they're abusing and enslaving sapient beings. There doesn't appear to be much of any of that here- the reservation is a reservation (very directly- the Japanese term they're using- as far as I can make out- is "kyoryuuchi", the exact term used to indicate Native American reservations), it's not a "storage centre" or a "maintenance facility" or anything like that. The humans address the Neans as if they expect them to have emotions and be driven by those emotions- even when Naomi calls Rouge "equipment" she's doing so with the meaning of, "you're throwing a tantrum and it's interfering with the mission: do your job" (and I'll come back to that, because what the gently caress Naomi). Other random Nean thoughts: so, Neans are definitely manufactured. Poor dying dead Nean talks about a factory. But the younger Nean who was being harassed outside the gates says he's only ever known the reservation. And he's not a war vet, he's younger than the war. So, can Neans... breed? Is there another way for them to be made, that's not in a factory? They do seem very organic, for all that a lot of the ones in this episode have metal bits on. I probably should have clocked this earlier but I think they are actually Blade Runner-style replicants- genetically rather than mechanically engineered. On Rouge: I think I said after the first episode that she seemed "offbeat" or "eccentric" or something to that effect. That was wrong. Rouge is a child. I think she is an actual child. It would explain a lot. What really drove it home for me was the way she latched so quickly and so fervently onto what Jill said to her about freedom. The chocolate fixation, the unwillingness to share, the general loose understanding of what's going on, her need to go and replace the chocolate immediately- these are all childish, but it's this taking things adults say to you very seriously thing that seems specifically childlike to me. On Rouge's brother: It's interesting to me that she calls him "brother". He doesn't seem to be a Nean- it seems unlikely to me, based on what we know of the world and the org, that one would a Vice-Director of Aletheia. So I don't think she's the claiming a fraternal bond in the sense of, they came out of the same production line, they're the same model, anything like that. I don't think they could have been raised together, if she's as new as I think she is. Plausibly he has some sort of child-parent or mentee-mentor relationship with whoever she thinks of as her parental figure? The surname is also interesting, because he shares it with another character- a "Roy Junghardt", mentioned in the first episode as one of Rouge's previous victims. One of Nius or Achillus? Rouge herself does not use the Junghardt name, she's going by "Redstar". On what the gently caress Naomi: So Naomi's little rant is weird, I think. On multiple levels. Because where the gently caress did all this anti-Nean racism come from, Naomi? Were you just hiding that under your hat up 'til now? And also... managing Rouge is Naomi's job, right? That seems to be her role on this mission, or at least a large part of it. She wants to emphasise the intel-gathering part, but what we've actually seen her do is direct Rouge and liaise with management. Even when she got Rouge to sandbag so she could analyse Viola... did that actually contribute anything to that fight? But Naomi sucks at managing Rouge! She pushes all her buttons in this scene, pushes them hard, and is... surprised? When Rouge stalks off. That's a pretty major gently caress up, the first time she has even minor difficulty getting Rouge to do what she wants. Is she just incompetent? Has she not been properly briefed? I guess this sort of direct face-to-face interaction wasn't plan A- it's something she fell back on after her bird drone was destroyed. Even so, I feel like she should be better at this. On the crab Naomi is eating: Is that a real type of crab? It seems too big. And she calls it a "herm", which isn't showing up on google. Are they... eating aliens? On who the gently caress is this guy:  Seriously! Who is he? Like, okay, there is an easy and straightforward answer to this: he is "Phantom Verde", Rouge's current target and one of the Nine. He's green. "Verde" means green. And I'll even say I expect the doctor to turn out to be him. On the basis of, he wears a green jacket, and if it's not the doctor then I don't think it's anyone we've met yet, which I think would be poor form, narratively. Aaand we don't really have a better explanation for him going along with Giallon's plan to frame Rouge. But who is this guy?? Because hey, there are six of the Nine still living. The episode goes out of its way to state that explicitly, if you couldn't do the math yourself. And there are six of these hero-Neans shown in the OP (not counting Rouge). But none of them are this guy!!       So... one of the six in the OP isn't one of the Nine? It's gotta be that, right? If I had to guess, it's the blue one at the end- it comes last, it's not actually part of the lineup with the other five (there's a shot of Rouge killing a Cylinder Head that separates it), it's anomalous in that it seems to fight the exact same way as Rouge (throwing laser daggers, swinging laser swords), and it's blue- the colour opposite to Rouge's red. So, the most marked-out. My crackpot extension to that theory is that that one is Naomi. Purely on the basis that she is also in colour-opposition to Rouge:  Black hair/fair skin/pink eyes/red jacket over black dress vs white hair/dark skin/grey-green eyes/navy jacket over cream dress. KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jan 25, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2024 22:29
|
|
|
I'm thinking Verde might not be the doctor but the one mechanic dude who explained what a Cylinder Head was in the last episode. He was at the transport stop, then showed up in the forest (ahead of the truck, somewhow) and then Naomi asked who the hell he is.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2024 22:38
|
|
|
He's definitely sus, but he's got no green on him. Mostly, he has orange. I have him pegged for the skating one. Viola, Rouge and Giallon are all wearing their colours on their civilian forms (Viola's is just her hair and eyes, granted, it doesn't dominate her colour scheme).
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2024 22:50
|
|
|
symbolic posted:even if it was i wouldn't be disappointed, but so far it feels like it'll just be a side thing, i think Rouge trying to find a personal identity is more likely than the be-all-end-all of "a nean who doesn't follow the Asiimov Code, gadzooks" seems like i was right at least so far. perfectly fine with a slower episode that expands upon Neans and their organizations, especially since next episode seems like it has some rear end-kicking in store KOGAHAZAN!! posted:Definitely a slower episode, but I found a lot to talk about anyway lol. Let's see if I can condense this into few enough words that I don't feel like I've gone insane. this is an extremely good analysis post, thank you for this!
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2024 18:07
|
|
|
KOGAHAZAN!! posted:On what the gently caress Naomi: i think the contrast between public facing naomi (mentor/teacher/straight up parental figure to rouge and the other kids we've seen), and naomi in private (constantly gorging on feasts by herself, trolling rouge to the point that her job is in jeopardy) is pretty fascinating. i don't think she's going to be some irredeemably awful person -- heck i think she's cool -- i just find it interesting that she is often more selfish and self destructive than the other main character who, like you mentioned, is effectively a child.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2024 05:56
|
|
|
i'm very happy that metallic rouge manages to find time to be Funny, since i'm sure we're in store for some dark moments https://i.imgur.com/cwvsRq0.mp4
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2024 06:12
|
|
|
I think this show would be better without jokerfied vash. he really doesn't contribute much, and in fact takes away from everything else by just being wacky murderman where all the other immortals are different degrees of compromised/struggling with free will vs. survival vs. allegiance to one cause or another e: however, he does sell the premise that the show as a whole stepped out of a time portal to 2010 Mister Olympus fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Feb 1, 2024 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2024 23:57
|
|
|
I like having Giallon in the show because he's literally just here for shits and giggles while everything else remains cryptic or inferred. It's a nice contrast to have a guy who is just there to blow poo poo up and stir the pot. If Neans can't kill Neans due to the Asimov Code then what exactly were they planning to do when Dumas/Giallon sicced the crowd on Rouge? Some of these scene transition edits are Scorsese-esque in their lack of flourish. Just hyper abrupt.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2024 00:59
|
|
|
I just want to say this show's Opening theme owns and I don't think I'll ever skip it.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2024 15:38
|
|
|
Mister Olympus posted:I think this show would be better without jokerfied vash. he really doesn't contribute much, and in fact takes away from everything else by just being wacky murderman where all the other immortals are different degrees of compromised/struggling with free will vs. survival vs. allegiance to one cause or another I did not particularly enjoy Giallon in this episode (4), but I do think he is staking out a distinct position in the philosophical landscape that the show is constructing: pursue freedom above all else, abandon not only all responsibility but all self-restraint; act on your every impulse. That's distinct from Jill's "freedom means you get to choose" spiel insofar as I don't think, based on what he says here, he would regard choosing not to indulge your desires to be legitimate. So for positions on freedom, I think we have: Jill: Freedom is choice. Naomi: Freedom is childishness, being an adult means doing what is required of you. Giallon: Freedom is the rejection of all constraint. Adfal/Verde: Freedom is impossible, we are all prisoners of the circumstances of our birth. I'm not gonna count Viola's "I just want to sing, bro" or Juval's "we need out from under this Code". Arc Hammer posted:If Neans can't kill Neans due to the Asimov Code then what exactly were they planning to do when Dumas/Giallon sicced the crowd on Rouge? I think the Asimov Code only prevents them from hurting humans; Dumas/Giallon says "Neans don't kill other Neans", but I think that's a moral prohibition more than an actual hard restriction. -------- Some other thoughts: So, when I realised that "Aletheia" and "Ochrona" weren't being called that in the Japanese, I spent some time trying to figure out what terms they were using. The answer isn't particularly interesting- they're the "Truth Department" (shinribu, 真理部) and the "Protection Bureau" (shugokyoku, 守護局) respectively. I guess I am interested in knowing where in the translation process these originated- directive from bones, something the translators jinned up themselves? But that's idle curiosity. I mention this mostly because in the course of trying to work it out I eventually found my way to the character section of the show's Japanese promo page, which as it turns out contains so much information about a whole bunch of stuff the show hasn't reached yet I'm inclined to call it spoilers. F ex.: I now know exactly who the blue transformer is, and the one with the giant hands, and exactly what the Gene/Roy/Rouge relationship is. So: do not click that link if you don't want answers to these questions.  As for what I'm still in the dark on: It's clear from this episode that Roy Junghardt is not one of the Neans that Rouge killed (I'll actually be super sad if this is the last we see of those two other ones, because those designs are cool imo). So now we have a question of how did he die, and why was Rouge at the scene? Possibilities as I see them:
Nuebot posted:I just want to say this show's Opening theme owns and I don't think I'll ever skip it. I wish we had lyrics for it. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2024 13:11
|
|
|
Well that was certainly a more interesting episode. I think the entire budget went into animating doll-girl's limbs and hair attacks. So the Puppet Master and Doll-Girl I don't think are Neans and definitely aren't the Immortal Nine, and they have ties to the Usurpers aliens given their massive arsenal of Cylinder Head war machines. The dreams sequences are unreliable at best and it's unclear if it's the truth, Rouge's memories of events or something the Puppet Master concocted to extract information from Rouge. As it is presented: Roy Junghardt was killed by the Immortal Nine because of something called Code Eve that would upend the balance between humans and Neans: free will. Gene tasks Rouge with killing the Nine for revenge. The Immortal Nine predate modern day Neans like they're the Final Five Cylons from the 2004 Battlestar Galactica series. Lots of chrysalis imagery with caterpillars, butterflies and metamorphosis. Nean gestation looks kinda like the Plants from Trigun. I'm kinda inferring from the show's clear Blade Runner vibes that Rouge is sort of analogous to Rachel in a way, where she's a Nean/Replicant given physical features/personalities based off of a real human. Maybe she was a replacement Nean for Gene's human sister, like how the child Nean in the last two episodes was built as a replacement son for grieving families. Fun exploration of the idea of freedom being handed down by a weirdo calling themselves the Puppet Master and believing in preordained fates. Eden seems to share the same desire for free will since he acts on his own accord rather than being a mopy sack like Afdal or feeling trapped in her circumstances like Sara. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Feb 8, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2024 00:41
|
|
|
Arc Hammer posted:Well that was certainly a more interesting episode. I think the entire budget went into animating doll-girl's limbs and hair attacks. the hand to hand stuff in this show always has so much impact, i love it https://i.imgur.com/mIXmDWQ.mp4
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2024 04:47
|
|
|
KOGAHAZAN!! posted:I wish we had lyrics for it. quote:Oops！ I killed another morning
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2024 02:37
|
|
|
Funny episode despite all the murder. Making fake Rouge's splash in the pool much larger than real Rouge's was a nice touch.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2024 01:58
|
|
|
Felt this episode was kind of a mess, to be honest.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2024 02:08
|
|
|
Had to shove in a swimsuit episode somewhere 
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2024 16:14
|
|
|
On one hand while I kinda see the connection issues(?) between plot points or characters going places, on the other hand it's not bothering me for some reason. This last episode was a decent doppelganger doing murders plot pulled off with some funny moments, and also setting up even more plot flags. Some observant people pointed out those twins aren't ever seen together, and are also wearing the same outfit down to the tears, so maybe a case of two personalities in the same body? Also Naomi's "betrayal" to arrest Rouge is probably setup to get them into where they need to go to find the next Immortal Nine member.
|
|
#
?
Feb 15, 2024 16:52
|
|
|
Huh, guess Naomi's kind of a big deal.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2024 01:18
|
|
|
Note for replicant revolutionaries: Wait to sell the government assassin replicant on your "kill all humans" plan until after you've successfully escaped replicant oppression HQ.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2024 02:30
|
|
|
Aes. Aesexual. This show is half over. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Feb 22, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2024 03:39
|
|
|
I like those two, what the gently caress, I'm on the side of the immortal nine now.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 00:38
|
|
|
Just now?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 19:15
|
|
Caphi posted:Just now? I don't like evil vash very much
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2024 01:41
|
|
|
Giallon is about the only character on the show I'm consistently entertained by. When everyone else is talking in cryptic metaphors or dropping a bunch of names and locations he's just there to kill people and blow poo poo up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2024 01:49
|
|
|
Hi Rouge I'm your sister Hmm "we have to prevent the Immortal Nine from completing Code Eve and granting Neans freedom from the Asimov Code because if they're free then they'll want more and use violence to get it, which will upset the status quo where we can kill Neans without consequence." "But doesn't that make us the bad guys?" Afdal: "Hey, you're both right, it's all a matter of perspective depending on where you stand." Altar declares war on humanity anyways. I swear to god. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Feb 29, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 00:53
|
|
|
Guess someone couldn't avoid the Noid.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 01:53
|
|
|
Arc Hammer posted:Hi Rouge I'm your sister Im gonna guess he suddenly no longer wishes to 'both sides' that argument
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 08:37
|
|
|
Sakurazuka posted:Im gonna guess he suddenly no longer wishes to 'both sides' that argument Previously he pointed out that order and freedom both are needed and wishing for both is valid, as is pointing out the issues with both. Now? Both Neans and humans have shown him directly they're dangerous and untrustworthy, and will gladly kill completely uninvolved people if allowed. There was no reason to shoot Noid. The Alters could've accomplished their goal with far less bloodshed. He's probably moving very, very fast towards the order side of that debate, but with the extra that humanity needs to be chained down too.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 16:52
|
|
|
Blaze Dragon posted:Previously he pointed out that order and freedom both are needed and wishing for both is valid, as is pointing out the issues with both. Now? Both Neans and humans have shown him directly they're dangerous and untrustworthy, and will gladly kill completely uninvolved people if allowed. There was no reason to shoot Noid. The Alters could've accomplished their goal with far less bloodshed. I think his viewpoint is probably also being strongly impacted by the humans' complete apathy towards Noid's gunshot wound.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 16:59
|
|
|
Straight from "there are both sides to the forced obedience brain chips" to "actually the neans are only rebelling because they're being used as a pawn by Bad Aliens to sabotage a project from the Good Aliens, I guess we have to stop this whole liberation movement regardless! nobody can actually be fighting for their own interests, it's all lizard people vs. fish people conspiracy!" this show had such a good start but now it's frustrating in that special way you only get from something being written with zero thought towards the implications of what you're actually saying. i guess a problem with falling out of a time warp from 2010 is that 2010 era anime could probably bank on two seasons to work all its plotlines out
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2024 21:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 03:11 |
|
|
Yeah but the 30 sec of lasts weeks episode was animated funny
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2024 00:49
|
|
