Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

in some places it's literally illegal to flush that stuff, like, the water treatment plants get horribly clogged with plastic applicators and it costs the municipality millions annually to deal with

Here's an example, I just googled to find one, it's for the city of Folsom, CA but I'm sure it's typical:

quote:

13.08.120 Prohibited discharges.
The following are hereby prohibited to be discharged to the city’s sewer collection system:

A. Flows exceeding the capacity of city facilities or exceeding the quantity normally or customarily anticipated for the permitted use.

B. Discharge of water that does not meet the water quality standards of acceptability for discharge into the storm drain, such as stormwater, surface water, pool water, groundwater, roof runoff, or subsurface drainage.

C. Fats, oils, and grease in amounts, either alone or in combination with other discharges, that cause:

1. Any visible sheen on the surface of the discharged wastewater;

2. Any build-up of grease in any portion of the sanitary sewer collection system; or

3. Any obstruction of the sanitary sewer collection system.

D. Trucked and hauled wastes.

E. Substances that may cause excessive foaming in any portion of the city’s sewer collection system.

F. Any liquid or vapor having a temperature higher than one hundred fifty degrees Fahrenheit.

G. Any substance, either by itself or combined with other wastewater discharge, that is capable of obstructing flow or impairing the performance of the city’s sewer collection system.


H. Cementitious materials.

I. Any substance that may cause damage, including corrosive structural damage, to any part of the city’s sewer collection system.

J. Chemicals of any kind that are not specifically authorized for disposal in a sewer system.

K. Garbage, including food wastes, that is greater than one-quarter inch in any dimension.

L. The foregoing discharge prohibitions are not exclusive and are in addition to any prohibitions or requirements specified in any provision of this chapter or by any other applicable statute, regulation, prohibition, or ordinance.

If a person owning or occupying a premises has knowledge that a discharge prohibited by this chapter has entered or will enter the city’s sewer collection system, such person shall immediately take all reasonable action to contain and abate the discharge and must notify the city immediately of knowledge of the discharge. (Ord. 1233 § 2 (part), 2015)

If you cause a big enough problem that the city has to bring a crew to your local sewer lines, you might get fined or worse.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

SpartanIvy
May 18, 2007
Hair Elf
Those old 4" brass clean out caps can be chiseled out with a screwdriver if need be. When I first bought my house that's what it took to get access for a sewer scope. Just be careful not to drop any pieces into the sewer.

Shifty Pony
Dec 28, 2004

Up ta somethin'


DrBouvenstein posted:

Ahhh, ok. I looked that up and yeah, that seems to fit, though I'm still confused how the drain from the washing machine/bathroom gets to the right side of the house trap...I guess maybe the U bend in the trap just does deeper into the ground/basement floor than I'm thinking it does and the washer/bath drain goes around the left side? Cause here's the layout from the top-down from what I can SEE, no clue where the pipes are buried under the floor:



The washer/bath drain, sewer line, and house trap are all in a perfect line a few inches from the basement wall.

I guess it probably looks something like this under the floor:

?

Are you sure that the blue is the sewer out? Like you see it go out towards the street at that point?

Nitrox
Jul 5, 2002

Slur, your fighting style is extremely problematic!

Do you have an air vent somewhere near the curb, where the house drain pipe meets the city sewer? If so, there is also a trap, and it's probably chock full of feminine hygiene products or whatever you've been flushing.

You don't need to call a plumber specifically. Google drain cleaning service near you, they will have a flat rate that's often reasonable enough for them to come out and snake your main drain lines. Usually under 200 bucks.

Or you can rent a machine from Home Depot and try yourself

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.

Shifty Pony posted:

Are you sure that the blue is the sewer out? Like you see it go out towards the street at that point?

Well the blue is this big vertical pipe here, and at the top it DOES go out towards the street:



I'll admit it does seem odd to me the exit to the sewer is 5' off the floor, but what else would that be?

If I zoom in on the original photo, I can see the "Rooter Man" was here in 02 and 04:


60' to street? (That can't be right, I have maybe 20' of front yard, 3' for sidewalk, another 4' for the greenbelt...even if the sewer is on the opposite side of the street I'm on, I feel like there's no way it's more than 40'?)

And I can't tell what they wrote about the kitchen sink and tub...Looks like..."ken"? I'll be able to take a real look at it when I get home.

Nitrox posted:

Do you have an air vent somewhere near the curb, where the house drain pipe meets the city sewer? If so, there is also a trap, and it's probably chock full of feminine hygiene products or whatever you've been flushing.

Not that I've ever noticed. Here's the streetview of my curb:


Pretty sure that metal cover on the left side is for electrical/cable/internet. It's all buried lines in my neighborhood.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





DrBouvenstein posted:

Pretty sure that metal cover on the left side is for electrical/cable/internet. It's all buried lines in my neighborhood.

Unless they do things very differently where you are, I'd be shocked (:haw:) if that was electrical; out here they still put the connections in above-ground boxes, even though the distribution to homes is underground. Same for cable and phone, they prefer some form of above-ground enclosure.

If it's utility owned it should be labeled on the lid. I'd assume a box like that is either your water meter or possibly irrigation valves.

edit: I just remembered that the street lights at my old house had in-ground boxes like that. Never even knew it was there until they showed up one day, dug it up and reinstalled it because it had been long covered over by gravel landscaping and the dirt building up beneath.

IOwnCalculus fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Mar 20, 2024

Shifty Pony
Dec 28, 2004

Up ta somethin'


DrBouvenstein posted:

Well the blue is this big vertical pipe here, and at the top it DOES go out towards the street:



I'll admit it does seem odd to me the exit to the sewer is 5' off the floor, but what else would that be?

If I zoom in on the original photo, I can see the "Rooter Man" was here in 02 and 04:


60' to street? (That can't be right, I have maybe 20' of front yard, 3' for sidewalk, another 4' for the greenbelt...even if the sewer is on the opposite side of the street I'm on, I feel like there's no way it's more than 40'?)

And I can't tell what they wrote about the kitchen sink and tub...Looks like..."ken"? I'll be able to take a real look at it when I get home.

Sewer is unpressurized and only can flow downhill unless you have a grinder pump (and you'd know if you had one of those).

I suspect that vertical pipe is the house trap vent/air-inlet:



Check on the outside wall of your house for a pipe that ends with an elbow pointed downwards. It might be tight at the ground level.

This or similar is probably what's going on below the floor:

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.

Shifty Pony posted:

Sewer is unpressurized and only can flow downhill unless you have a grinder pump (and you'd know if you had one of those).

I suspect that vertical pipe is the house trap vent/air-inlet:



Check on the outside wall of your house for a pipe that ends with an elbow pointed downwards. It might be tight at the ground level.

This or similar is probably what's going on below the floor:


That makes entirely more sense. Like...in my heart I knew sewer lines don't (typically ) go up but I figured since I have the regular plumbing stack roof vent, then that certainly couldn't be a vent, so what else would it be?


I got the wrong sized clean out cap on my way home*. and I REALLY don't trust I can get either of those brass ones back on if I wrench then off... and since my local Ace closed before I got home, I don't feel like a 20-25 minute drive each way to go to HD or Lowe's, I'll attempt the snaking tomorrow.

Low flow water seems to be fine... Nothing gets backed up from a toilet flush , hand wash, or quick wash of a couple dishes.


*In my defense, the caps were ABSOLUTELY in the same section of the aisle as the 3" PVC accessories, so either someone mis-stocked two 4" ones in the wrong bin, or they put a bin of 4" PVC caps amongst the 3" PVC stuff and I didn't notice the box said 4", not did I notice they were CLEARLY too big.

Seeing as I've been a pretty big idiot about this thing so far... we'll go with the idiot option.

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.
Well, I was wrong AGAIN ! The caps there now are not 3" or 4". They're 3.5".

Looks like if I want one today and not wait days for it to ship, I'll have to get a brass replacement, and there MAY be a few in stock at my "local" HD, almost a 30 minute drive way. The Lowe's, closer, doesn't seem to have any 3.5" caps. Nor either of the Ace hardware near me.

But that's all moot. I can't get the "street" side cap off. It's rusted on GOOD, when with plenty of PB Blaster.

I tried off and on for an hour but couldn't get my snake to go around the bends from the house-side clean out.

Plumber time, I guess?

Edit: got it off, snaked down and maybe felt a tiny bit of resistance at one point? Never pulled anything back. Then a short while later, I wasn't even snaking at the time just trying to clean the threads on the cap and pipe , there was gurgling and a bunch of water in the trap left and went down the sewer pipe.

There wasn't any water running/draining anywhere else, so maybe that was a clog working its way out? The water level in the trap is just below the sewer line going out so in theory that means it shouldn't be clogged? I dumped a few gallons of water from old jugs I had filled into the trap, it all went out no problem. I'll run the shower for a few minutes to test if I can get these caps at least temporarily back on enough for me to trust them for said test. I

DrBouvenstein fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Mar 21, 2024

Nitrox
Jul 5, 2002

Slur, your fighting style is extremely problematic!

Heat it with a torch

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.
Well still hosed. Here's what happened when I drained a tub that was about 1/2 filled after a minute or so:


I'm additional to the threads CLEARLY not being remotely tight enough, there really shouldn't be any pressure in the trap like that unless a clog was still there, right? Like... Even if I got two new caps and they were snug, that water shooting out means the water would eventually back up from the washing machine standpipe like it already did the other day?

Shifty Pony
Dec 28, 2004

Up ta somethin'


Yep. Call a plumber and have the clear the line to the street. Probably want them to scope it after to see if the line is hosed.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

I thought cleanout caps were intentionally supposed to leak, as a predictable soft point of failure that is way better than everything gushing out your toilet

the plastic cap on my sewer line cleanout sure doesn't seal, anyway

Nitrox
Jul 5, 2002

Slur, your fighting style is extremely problematic!

Wyatt do you think happened to the clog? Of course it's still there

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.

Nitrox posted:

Wyatt do you think happened to the clog? Of course it's still there

I think he's there, mocking me.

I'm getting a plumber who can snake the whole 60' if needed, maybe tomorrow, maybe not till next week. But I at least fixed the cap issue:


I think they're technically designed for temp use to pressure test systems, but they're snug enough here. The inside threads of both cleanouts were hosed, hosed long before I started loving with them.

Here are the two caps...the left/house one looks like a regular breeze 3.5" cap, the other is some kind of 4" lead cap originally, then cut/tapered down to like 3.25":


The clog isn't a complete blockage, so I can flush my toilet and wash my hands until a plumber gets here. I even took a brief, 3 minute, shower and no water leaking/backing up anywhere. I'm not about to test a longer shower or the washing machine.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


DrBouvenstein posted:

I'm getting a plumber who can snake the whole 60' if needed, maybe tomorrow, maybe not till next week. But I at least fixed the cap issue:


Slap one of those on every drain in your house except one that you figure out how to connect to a pressure pump and that clog'll be gone in record time!

SouthShoreSamurai
Apr 28, 2009

It is a tale,
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.


Fun Shoe
My money's on tree root infiltration of main sewer line.

Azza Bamboo
Apr 7, 2018


THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021

SouthShoreSamurai posted:

My money's on tree root infiltration of main sewer line.

Yep: I just came here to ask are there any trees nearby?

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.
Maybe a couple small trees?

It looks like the sewer line goes out the side of my house, under my driveway, and then turns to go to the street where I assume the town sewer line is.

There's a small cedar tree in my neighbor's yard next to my driveway, and a small birch tree in the greenbelt, but based off the direction the sewer line goes, that's likely not an issue?



Just don't think either tree is big enough/the right type for root infiltration?

JediTalentAgent
Jun 5, 2005
Hey, look. Look, if- if you screw me on this, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine, you rat bastard!
Undersink drain vent question and I'm probably over explaining. Everything is ABS.

The drain line comes straight out of the floor and was installed at the kitchen sink cabinet directly below one side of the sink. At the very top of this is the vent.

The base of vent is 4 inches above the branch that connects to the trap for the drains. Vent adds another 2 inches or so of height.

The top of the vent is about 4.5 inches from the top inside of countertop and with the original sink it was probably just a few mm from touching the bottom of the sink.

Any new sink replacement, even replacing cabinet/counters, is still going hit the vent with the sink where I have it. It's literally just about 2 inches too close to where the sink will be.

I've got a few ideas and not sure if any are acceptable.

Can I cut the line ABOVE the branch and offset/divert the vent away from the sink with a pair of 45 degree angles? It would clear the sink area and still give me plenty of room for 4" vertical distance between branch/vent and keep the vent horizontal when installed.

Nitrox
Jul 5, 2002

Slur, your fighting style is extremely problematic!

Yes it will be fine

You could have posted a picture instead of writing a 500 word essay.

PainterofCrap
Oct 17, 2002

hey bebe


There is no such thing as too much detail

bred
Oct 24, 2008

DrBouvenstein posted:





Just don't think either tree is big enough/the right type for root infiltration?

My root ball was a bundle of very small roots. Nothing thicker than a coffee straw. It was like a coarse cotton ball or steel wool. Just enough to stop solids and let them build up. Rooter co showed it on a camera and said tree roots can reach 3x as far as the canopy so it could be any tree reaching into a small hole.

The Water co had a camera that drives up and down the line in the street and can look at where the lateral connects. They can see downstream dangling roots if they reach that far. It was free but I had to wait a few days because the truck was busy elsewhere.

JediTalentAgent
Jun 5, 2005
Hey, look. Look, if- if you screw me on this, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine, you rat bastard!
Sorry about that. Here's an image.



Red box is about where the sink will be after installed.

Idea A was to make a straight line away from the sink at the top for the vent about 6-12 inches from the sink with enough pipe/couplers to make it 4"

Idea B: I might have to do some adjustment at the trap, anyway, for the drain on new sink, so maybe just cut below the where it branches off and install a whole new non-ABS trap/vent kit with an adapter fitting and run the drain line a bit longer.

Edit: The photo probably is hard to see, but the bottom 6-8 inches of the line is a fitting with a clean out port on it.

JediTalentAgent fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Mar 25, 2024

Nitrox
Jul 5, 2002

Slur, your fighting style is extremely problematic!

Either one of your solutions will work just fine. The only mistakes you could make is put it in front of the trap, or install it too low, which you are not doing.

My personal preference for air admittance valves inside the cabinet, is to mount it higher than the strainer.

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.
The plumber came and, from what they could tell, the clog was mainly from an old scrap of fabric that was flushed at some point. I'm genuinely wondering if the initial start was years ago before I got the place, and then just years of the clog slowly getting more bits of congealed grease, wipes, and other things eventually got it large enough to cause a backup.

I know I mentioned my GF has admitted to flushing feminine hygiene products since we've lived here, but I know she would never intentionally flush a freakin' (roughly) 4x4" piece of rag.

And according to the plumber it was like 55' down the pipe...5' feet before it would have been the city's problem!

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Nitrox
Jul 5, 2002

Slur, your fighting style is extremely problematic!

Sounds like it was a matter of when, not if. Stop flushing items down the toilet, it's not a garbage chute. Make girlfriend pay the plumber's bill.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply