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The interesting part of that to me is that it only gets grips in the areas that you would really want to get grips in a judo throw.
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Apr 8, 2024 16:44
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Defenestrategy posted:is the Dojang restrictive? The way it looks like it rests makes me think your arms don't have full mobility. I haven't felt an issue shooting my arms forward. It has to be made custom sized to your body, so if you develop much bigger arms, the sleeves could get restrictive. Tight sleeves would also make it harder for your opponent to get their fingers in for a grip. I feel fine with the amount of material across the back even when I have both arms forward. Since there's no weight classes in the sport/ broader culture, running into different ways people fit in their jodag is as expected as facing opponents of different builds. Tacos Al Pastor posted:The interesting part of that to me is that it only gets grips in the areas that you would really want to get grips in a judo throw. I personally don't miss having a sleeve at the wrist, but it feels like the absence majorly changes the standard range of engagement. I know plenty of judo throws are demonstrated with gripping sleeves are the wrist, but not sure if those variants are popular in competition.
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Apr 8, 2024 17:57
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kimbo305 posted:I personally don't miss having a sleeve at the wrist, but it feels like the absence majorly changes the standard range of engagement. I know plenty of judo throws are demonstrated with gripping sleeves are the wrist, but not sure if those variants are popular in competition. I assume it shouldn't matter because the wrist itself is a pretty good handle, the only issue I'd for see is stuff from the sode position where you have to cross your opponents arms over each other like sode tai-otoshi or stuff that uses the wrist as a lever like in sode tsurikomi goshi. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Apr 8, 2024 |
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Apr 8, 2024 18:17
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kimbo305 posted:I haven't felt an issue shooting my arms forward. It has to be made custom sized to your body, so if you develop much bigger arms, the sleeves could get restrictive. Tight sleeves would also make it harder for your opponent to get their fingers in for a grip. I feel fine with the amount of material across the back even when I have both arms forward. wrist vs elbow is kind of a season-to-taste thing. I prefer just behind the elbow because it's harder for my opponent to clear and I like how I can use that grip to transfer momentum from the arm to the hips/torso/shoulder, but one of the dudes I train with a lot, who is better at competitive judo than I am, just loves playing as far to the end of the sleeve as possible and he plays different reactions. I personally have a strong preference for any fabric grip over any non-fabric grip, and ime it's way more difficult to strip a good sleeve grip than the equivalent no-gi wrist grip.
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Apr 8, 2024 18:39
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kimbo305 posted:I personally don't miss having a sleeve at the wrist, but it feels like the absence majorly changes the standard range of engagement. I know plenty of judo throws are demonstrated with gripping sleeves are the wrist, but not sure if those variants are popular in competition. Me neither. But this kind of explains why the belt grip is so popular by some including the mongolians I believe.
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Apr 8, 2024 19:43
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Ok, effort post is here. Took a lot longer to edit these than I wanted. Part of it was switching over to Davinci Resolve, and part was not having a good workflow for clipping out the interesting bits and ordering them thematically. Please call out or comment on or ask about anything. Some top level comments. Again, it's only been 6 months, so my understanding and execution are still very shallow. My best skills right now are footwork when not attached and hand speed, both of which unsurprisingly come from doing sanshou and kickboxing. My biggest limitations are strategic bandwidth and basically all techniques. When it comes to switching over or training another martial art, it's interesting to make a distinction between the ruleset and the body of techniques. One of the most comforting things in this early phase has been the significant overlap between sanshou and shuaijiao. They have the same definition for what constitutes a fall and very similar throw scoring systems. In shuaijiao, a fall is whenever someone touches any non-foot part of their body to the floor. For a throw to score, the thrower needs to remain standing (not having fallen) or demonstrate control, at the ref's discretion. Generally this means having any kind of top or side control, with your weight over their body. Both people falling and one person poised to do a heelhook would not count as in control or on top. Once a fall happens, whether there's a score, both people are reset to standing and the action continues. This general framework is super familiar to me, and that's made transitioning over much easier. If I were to go back to BJJ, the ruleset would be so different that I'd have a decent amount of extra mental overhead on top of trying to execute a variety of new techniques and positions. Offensively, my repertoire is very limited. My sanshou grappling style was centered on catching kicks, and of course there's rarely any legs coming at you without striking. The rest of my throw game was based on staying far outside and popping in and landing a trip. Once I was wearing a jacket and not punching, it was way harder to get in without getting tied up. Defensively, my existing takedown defense translates the most readily. Staying on the feet, avoiding trips and sweeps, using whizzers -- I have some base for that already. Not wearing boxing gloves only adds to my defensive options up top. I just need to avoid muscle memory of punching to spoil a tie up. Another small bonus is that from all the kicking, getting hacked on the shins doesn't bother me all. Ok, first video is some highlighting of how my grip game has developed. When I started, I could see what grips I wanted, but I had no sense of timing or space to get my fingers right inside the sleeve or on the lapel. There was a lot of over and undershooting and jamming my fingers. On the shuaijiao side, I now have a decent sense of distance and timing to shoot out and get a single grip. Still struggling with keeping up a steady counter pace as my attacks get blocked. The jacket has a lot of options, particularly the lapel and sleeve, which are similar distances and let you retarget pretty efficiently. On the bokh side, in the early months, I couldn't believe how stiff the sleeve was, and how much my fingers hurt after a session. Even now, the lack of the lapel in bokh means less frantic pacing on attacking and counterattacking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Beli1rUMxNc The grip break attempts you see first -- it's funny -- before this session, I watched a random Shintaro Higashi video that included a side shot of that yanking your own lapel to pop the fabric out of your opponent's hand, and I decided to try it. Before that, I knew that I needed to get out of grips but didn't have well structured techniques. This session was the first time I was adding both attempts and successes into the overall game. The thing I marvel at the most is, when grip fighting, how much the whirling of forearms looks like stereotypes of Chinese kungfu. A lot of principles of trapping from Wing Chun, as well as similar range ideas in Praying Mantis and Hung Gar -- they would all apply better here than in a sport striking context. The speed advantage I have moving barehanded over having boxing gloves on is very noticeable (and appreciated cuz I'm lazy). Shuaijiao was not directly related to any indigenous martial arts, though, and would have had cross exposure in the early 1900s. So some of it has to be coincidence more than matching applications. And some is how Vincent and my particular standup styles mesh. Next video is some defensive stuff along with some bad throw attempts and the counters. A lot of holding on while getting inside leg tripped and trying to free the leg, or pushing up and whirling out. With the top sleeve grip in bokh in particular, you have a very convenient handle to go ham to start whipping someone around. The defense is pretty intuitve, move with it and don't get too tense, hop over or step around any leg blocking attacks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY16EySEQmk Now a particular tactic I was focusing on in that bokh session: making contact with the lead arm, pulling in a bit, and making a quick angle off to the side. I did this kind of stepping off the centerline all the time in kickboxing, and it made sense to me to adapt pawing the lead jab hand out of the way into this grip on the forearm. I told myself if I could get deep enough between stepping outside and close and also pulling them in a bit, that I could try to trip behind them and push over. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5ZgYVH42PU I had more success with this tactic than anything else, both in terms of specific offensive effect and taking more control of the standup positioning. I also tried some arm drag like moves. Finally, some flaws I saw watching the footage. The first has already been shown in a couple spots. If I feel like we're going into a grip on a single side of my body, I'll stretch out the distance, making an swing attempts slower, and also buying myself more time to react to linear attacks. But I subconsciously put my free side arm back and down to further counterweight and counterbalance. I guess I might be swinging the pendulum too far away from kickboxing, where you want the hand by your head most of the time. Now that that's not a concern, I'm being too free with that hand, instead of engaging it sooner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KHdPXItSM0 Then two different shameful lapses in footwork. I never walk like that in kickboxing, and I don't think I was particularly tired when I was just standing straight up and walking around like that. The marching and getting my hips up and down -- I do remember being more tired, and was trying to keep a wider base than I'm used to while shuffling. Ugly. Then it's a montage of all my unsuccessful lift attempts. I got a bit better about bringing my hips in on the initial lift, but just don't have enough overlap for my leg reap to do anything. Last thing I only noticed while editing, not when it happened. I try to do an outside trip, but Vincent steps back and I plant my foot while my leg is still swinging sideways, and then I get pulled over, so my lower leg definitely gets at an awkward angle. It hurts to look at, but not sure how I can make it safer other than drilling a lot. I'm having a lot of fun. I'm highly engaged in part because the ruleset being limited to standup makes it familiar territory for me. The lack of structure in training is fine because I don't have any specific goals for development. It would be a big blow if Vincent move away and I lost my main training partner for both these arts. I look like such a fatass in some of the bokh shots where the jodag's beltline is becoming a pushup bra for my spare tire. Just being able to see myself in this shape (maybe 20lbs over my training camp weight) has gotten me motivated to do a little extra work all around. kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Apr 13, 2024 |
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Apr 13, 2024 08:14
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Great post! It's always cool to learn about other grappling arts.
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Apr 13, 2024 11:33
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In gi grappling against an opponent who is doing the ol double stiff arm and put their butts way back is there any move better than the gi snap down? It feels like a cheat code and I'm getting kinda bored of basically gi snap down -> attack turtle its really effective but i'd like some zazz to really drill it home to people that doing that poo poo doesnt work out. Yoko Tomoe Nage maybe?
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Apr 17, 2024 01:26
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Defenestrategy posted:In gi grappling against an opponent who is doing the ol double stiff arm and put their butts way back is there any move better than the gi snap down? It feels like a cheat code and I'm getting kinda bored of basically gi snap down -> attack turtle its really effective but i'd like some zazz to really drill it home to people that doing that poo poo doesnt work out. Yoko Tomoe Nage maybe? crossgrip and go to a russian tie
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Apr 17, 2024 01:51
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I back at the "there's so much I don't know, and the stuff I think I know I don't really know" stage
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Apr 17, 2024 01:51
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starkebn posted:I back at the "there's so much I don't know, and the stuff I think I know I don't really know" stage I will occasionally think that I know a thing and then for my hubris I will be absolutely clowned on by someone when I'm trying to do it a few months later.
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Apr 17, 2024 02:52
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Tried no gi for the first time yesterday, and drat dose boys slippery!
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Apr 17, 2024 03:31
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Buschmaki posted:Tried no gi for the first time yesterday, and drat dose boys slippery! it's the closest a lot of us will ever get to oildome
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Apr 17, 2024 03:35
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Defenestrategy posted:In gi grappling against an opponent who is doing the ol double stiff arm and put their butts way back is there any move better than the gi snap down? It feels like a cheat code and I'm getting kinda bored of basically gi snap down -> attack turtle its really effective but i'd like some zazz to really drill it home to people that doing that poo poo doesnt work out. Yoko Tomoe Nage maybe? Georgian grip! Just don't spike them on their head if they're too new to understand what's going on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pekRlsRR9DU
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Apr 17, 2024 03:46
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Defenestrategy posted:Yoko Tomoe Nage maybe? Bent over in the "jiu jitsu standing position", when they are pushing into you, this works really well.
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Apr 17, 2024 13:48
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You can also hook in osoto gari from a long ways away and then hop yourself into the correct finishing position. I've done it from years based off of various videos I've seen online but Shintaro recently covered it in his "how to do osoto gari safely in BJJ" video, which I can't recommend enough. https://youtu.be/EwU--hb9s-E?si=FtwlhVdu-BbKsM0z 2:15 for cross body Osoto, he's not demonstrating it against a fully bent over opponent but it works there, and as you can see it's a very gentle throw, I use it a lot on white belts on thin BJJ mats. Also, there's a drop seoinage where you drop AWAY from your opponent and turn at a right angle and it's specifically only for when a bjj opponent is in that position. https://youtu.be/2DzXe5rrypc?si=MQMlP3NsDrtcER7e 5:25 , quarter turn drop Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Apr 17, 2024 |
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Apr 17, 2024 15:45
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other things that work well are giving them a little tug, and they typically pull back so you can just murder them with an osoto. If you're off to the side of their hip you can do an up-slicing o guruma. if you can reach over their back you can do the hikikomi gaeshi variant of sumi gaeshi. Tai otoshi and uchi mata can cut under their frames depending on the details of the position and which direction they're moving.
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Apr 17, 2024 15:52
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Yeah sumi gaeshi variations are great from that position
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Apr 17, 2024 16:04
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Nestharken posted:Georgian grip! Just don't spike them on their head if they're too new to understand what's going on. I hate using this grip because it legit scares me isnt gonna protect themselves. As the bigger, stronger, skilled, opponent I already am under a very small lense with people waiting to label me too dangerous.
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Apr 17, 2024 19:03
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I did a good move but the instructor wasn't watching. 
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Apr 19, 2024 16:05
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Hellblazer187 posted:I did a good move but the instructor wasn't watching. Did it even really happen then??
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Apr 19, 2024 16:11
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Jack B Nimble posted:Did it even really happen then?? That's what I keep asking myself. I did get a tap, but I did not get the instructor saying "very well" so I dunno.
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Apr 19, 2024 17:34
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Had a funny thing happen at the judo gym. There's this guy who just got his yellow belt, who ever since he's gotten it has been doing the cocky blue belt thing, but it's even more sad because it only takes like four months of just showing up to get it versus just like a year of just showing up for a blue belt. My normal training partner is a brown belt, but when he's made to teach the class because the guy who usually teaches is sick or whatever, I'm paired with this yellow belt, and for weeks he's been making kinda snarky remarks about what I've been doing and I've just kinda been brushing it off because whatever I've beaten up dudes with far more experience and ability than this dude has and I just let him talk or whatever. So anyway, he tries to big brother me while the group of us are talking after class and the brown belt speaks up and says "You do know this guys a purple belt in BJJ and has been grappling for like a decade before he ever started training here right, maybe don't try to offer bad advice to him?" Dude looked really embarrassed and it made me laugh really hard.
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Apr 19, 2024 21:33
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That's so obnoxious; I feel sympathetic embarrassment for him but maybe if he feels enough shame he'll grow, yikes. The worst student our BJJ school ever had (who we eventually had to kick out) had this as one of his many sins; once we were drilling some super basic throw on the crash pad and the incompetent obnoxious one stripe white belt keeps giving the green belt teenager (bad!) advice. I finally ask the rhetorical question that's been in the air "Hey, [teenager], remind me how long you've been training?" Five years. Newcomers don't pay attention to what a strangely colored belt on a 16 or year old means.
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Apr 19, 2024 22:00
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I honestly really like belts in jits/judo because I can instantly prey on unsuspecting people by just forgetting my belt at home and borrowing a white belt because a lot of people dont really look past the color until its too late.
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Apr 19, 2024 22:30
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Our club is stingy with the belts it's a few years to blue and all the purps are 7+
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Apr 19, 2024 23:03
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flashman posted:Our club is stingy with the belts it's a few years to blue and all the purps are 7+ My coach said the blue belt is the participation award you get once you look like you're not gonna swallow your tongue on the mat. The other belts come once you start stomping out the rest of your cohort.
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Apr 19, 2024 23:06
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That makes sense to me too, our black belt was a mma guy under Renzo and figured you should get a blue when you had no trouble with any new fellow who showed up
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Apr 20, 2024 00:11
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I as a white belt, explained something to another white belt today 😔 It was the control mechanics of kesa and how to get out of it by bridging to rip the overhook cause I kept just pinning him down during positionals. He immediately used it to start guard recovery better like, as soon as I told him
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Apr 20, 2024 02:42
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Browsing SA on my phone while eating after Judo. Got pinned for the full twenty seconds by a 150lb 16 year old girl. Aside from just plain hulking out and being a jerk I really couldn't have tried harder to get out: II tried to bridge and roll and her elbows and knees were just enough to stop it; I tried to fish one of her feet put it into half guard but the feet are tucked in too tight. I tried to get onto my side to frame and shrimp, but she's too snug. For people that have done BJJ but not Judo, twenty seconds goes by quick, especially if they don't have to give up even an inch to find a sub. Compared to the last time I did newaza with her, maybe a year ago, she's just so much better. She can catch half guard in a scramble, she can spin belly down when I try to transition into my arm bar. She got into the top mount to begin with by out scrambling me. I'm sure I could beat her if I was meaner, but in BJJ terms she's gone from clueless white belt to decent blue belt, and it's neat to see the Judo newaza game developing.
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Apr 20, 2024 03:00
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Buschmaki posted:I as a white belt, explained something to another white belt today 😔 Sounds like the lesson worked, at least! If you've had a class or two on something and the other person clearly hasn't, there's nothing wrong with saying "Coach Bob said to do XYZ from here". The downside, of course, is that you might have just made life much more difficult for yourself.
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Apr 20, 2024 05:06
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