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The Aardvark
Aug 19, 2013


Turns out today was our turn!

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RandomPauI
Nov 24, 2006


Grimey Drawer
Seconding money more useful than goods. Unless it's a couple of fresh carafes of coffee in the early morning. Coffee from a licenced, commercial-grade kitchen only, we can't accept homemade stuff for safety and liability reasons.

withak
Jan 15, 2003


Fun Shoe
I insist that you accept my six dozen dusty cans of creamed corn.

FreshFeesh
Jun 3, 2007

Drum Solo
The central coast is starting to feel effects from the SoCal firestorm (Los Osos)

Decairn
Dec 1, 2007

Well the mandatory evacuation stopped 100 yards from my door. I had a choice, stay at the POD / Prophets of Rage show and hope, or go home. It was a drat fine show and the house survived.

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
https://twitter.com/CAL_FIRE/status/941412133039890432

:(

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

FCKGW posted:

lol you picked a real bad time to visit
It was fine; got to see a buncha cinders on my first day, a few distant fires, a shitload of burned land and uhhh, when I went to Universal Studios there was a blaze the size of my home city.

It was all worth it to finally meet my buddy tho

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
https://twitter.com/CAL_FIRE/status/943892266409586688

:unsmith:

Amazing that we only lost two people to this thing. The fires up north must have convinced people that when the evacuation order comes down, it's time to get the gently caress out of there.

RandomPauI
Nov 24, 2006


Grimey Drawer
The initial evacuation orders for the Northern CA fires weren't sent out over phones because of ignorance or laziness. They claimed it couldn't be sent in a way that was targeted.

But they could, and for Ventura's Thomas response they were. To the point that a bunch if alerts hit our Ventura evacuation shelter at the same.

Santa Barbara flubbed it by sending a vague alert countywide with no instructions at 2:14 am one night, but they got it right within a half hour.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012
Part of a tour group attending the Rose Parade. The tour group apparently gets special access to see some of the floats two days before the main event while it's being set up. Ask me anything

Grand Prize Winner
Feb 19, 2007


Does anyone gently caress in the floats?

withak
Jan 15, 2003


Fun Shoe

Grand Prize Winner posted:

Does anyone gently caress in...

The answer to this question is always "yes".

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

What do they do if the float drivers have to poo poo? Do they have a bucket or just drop one on the parade route?

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
Thomas Fire is 100% contained at last. Two deaths from the fire and seventeen from the storm. I wonder if, should the investigation of the cause result in criminal charges, all nineteen deaths would count as having resulted from the fire.

RandomPauI
Nov 24, 2006


Grimey Drawer
Charges would probably be placed on So-Cal Edison. So a civil fine.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute

RandomPauI posted:

Charges would probably be placed on So-Cal Edison. So a civil fine.

Wait So-Cal Edison was at fault for the Thomas fire? Are you kidding me? We have two major fires this year both caused by the largest electric and gas companies in the state?

I am finding myself more and more in favor of that crazy "nationalize all the power & gas companies and figure out the rest later" proposition by the second.

Tarezax
Sep 12, 2009

MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT
I think it's a guess because lack of maintenance on power lines and/or power lines downed by strong winds is a common cause of fires here in SoCal

We did have some pretty strong gusts in the days preceding the fires

FRINGE
May 23, 2003
title stolen for lf posting

Tarezax posted:

I think it's a guess because lack of maintenance

Yes and those should be criminal charges, including the felonies for the deaths, brought against the entire c-level team and board for deciding to not "waste money" on safety. (Since the fines are trivial and they roll them into fee increases anyway.)

"Nationalize it" is not crazy.

History check: the organized attack against Davis (garbage that he might have been aside) happened concurrently with Enrons rigging, the fake "rolling brownouts", and the post-deregulation robbery:

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=California%20electricity%20crisis&nojs=1

quote:

The California electricity crisis, also known as the Western U.S. Energy Crisis of 2000 and 2001, was a situation in which the United States state of California had a shortage of electricity supply caused by market manipulations, illegal[5] shutdowns of pipelines by the Texas energy consortium Enron, and capped retail electricity prices.[6] The state suffered from multiple large-scale blackouts, one of the state's largest energy companies collapsed, and the economic fall-out greatly harmed Governor Gray Davis' standing.

...

As the FERC report concluded, market manipulation was only possible as a result of the complex market design produced by the process of partial deregulation. Manipulation strategies were known to energy traders under names such as "Fat Boy", "Death Star", "Forney Perpetual Loop", "Ricochet", "Ping Pong", "Black Widow", "Big Foot", "Red Congo", "Cong Catcher" and "Get Shorty".[11] Some of these have been extensively investigated and described in reports.

...

When the electricity demand in California rose, utilities had no financial incentive to expand production, as long term prices were capped. Instead, wholesalers such as Enron manipulated the market to force utility companies into daily spot markets for short term gain. For example, in a market technique known as megawatt laundering, wholesalers bought up electricity in California at below cap price to sell out of state, creating shortages. In some instances, wholesalers scheduled power transmission to create congestion and drive up prices.

After extensive investigation, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) substantially agreed in 2003:[19]

The major flaw of the deregulation scheme was that it was an incomplete deregulation – that is, "middleman" utility distributors continued to be regulated and forced to charge fixed prices, and continued to have limited choice in terms of electricity providers. Other, less catastrophic energy deregulation schemes, such as Pennsylvania's, have generally deregulated utilities but kept the providers regulated, or deregulated both.

...

On December 15, 2000, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) rejected California's request for a wholesale rate cap for California, instead approving a "flexible cap" plan of $150 per megawatt-hour. That day, California was paying wholesale prices of over $1400 per megawatt-hour, compared to $45 per megawatt-hour average one year earlier.

On January 17, 2001, the electricity crisis caused Governor Gray Davis to declare a state of emergency. Speculators, led by Enron Corporation, were collectively making large profits while the state teetered on the edge for weeks, and finally suffered rolling blackouts on January 17 & 18. Davis was forced to step in to buy power at highly unfavorable terms on the open market, since the California power companies were technically bankrupt and had no buying power. The resulting massive long term debt obligations added to the state budget crisis and led to widespread grumbling about Davis' administration.

quote:

Perhaps the heaviest point of controversy is the question of blame for the California electricity crisis. Former Governor Gray Davis's critics often charge that he did not respond properly to the crisis, while his defenders attribute the crisis to the power trading fraud and corporate accounting scandals and say that Davis did all he could considering the fact that the federal government, not states, regulate interstate power commerce.

In a speech at UCLA on August 19, 2003, Davis apologized for being slow to act during the energy crisis, but then forcefully attacked the Houston-based energy suppliers: "I inherited the energy deregulation scheme which put us all at the mercy of the big energy producers. We got no help from the Federal government. In fact, when I was fighting Enron and the other energy companies, these same companies were sitting down with Vice President Cheney to draft a national energy strategy."

...

On May 17, 2001, future Republican governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and former Los Angeles Mayor Republican Richard Riordan met with Enron CEO Kenneth Lay at the Peninsula Beverly Hills Hotel in Beverly Hills. The meeting was convened for Enron to present its "Comprehensive Solution for California," which called for an end to federal and state investigations into Enron's role in the California energy crisis.[32] [33] [34]

On October 7, 2003, Schwarzenegger was elected Governor of California to replace Davis.

(Bolding to emphasize that the state-wide damage and losses were planned by Enron and Cheney in part to place a new Republican-friendly Governor in California.)

Deregulation kills. (Even though the industry says "its not deregulated enough".

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-electricity-capacity/

quote:

Californians are paying billions for power they don't need

We're using less electricity. Some power plants have even shut down. So why do state officials keep approving new ones?

...

Lawmakers opened the state’s power business to competition in 1998, so individual utilities would no longer enjoy a monopoly on producing and selling electricity. The goal was to keep prices lower while ensuring adequate supply. Utilities and their customers were allowed to buy electricity from new, unregulated operators called independent power producers.

The law created a new exchange where electricity could be bought and sold, like other commodities such as oil or wheat.

Everyone would benefit. Or so the thinking went.

In reality, instead of lowering electricity costs and spurring innovation, market manipulation by Enron Corp. and other energy traders helped send electricity prices soaring.

quote:

The missteps of regulators have been compounded by the self-interest of California utilities, Lynch and other critics contend. Utilities are typically guaranteed a rate of return of about 10.5% for the cost of each new plant regardless of need. This creates a major incentive to keep construction going: Utilities can make more money building new plants than by buying and reselling readily available electricity from existing plants run by competitors.

FRINGE fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jan 13, 2018

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

FRINGE posted:

Yes and those should be criminal charges, including the felonies for the deaths, brought against the entire c-level team and board for deciding to not "waste money" on safety. (Since the fines are trivial and they roll them into fee increases anyway.)

The lawsuit PG&E lost, which required them to pay big fines for failing to maintain their power lines, explicitly forbade them from passing those costs on to consumers: they were borne by PG&E's shareholders. The fact of that result directly feeds into PG&E's statements to shareholders after the Santa Rosa etc. fires warning of potential liability and reducing their next dividend; they are reserving shareholder money against the likelihood of losing another lawsuit that holds them accountable for billions in damages.

This is not, of course, piercing the corporate veil and holding individuals responsible for damages or deaths, and I completely agree with you that - especially after they've already been hit for exactly this, and after the San Bruno gas explosion, etc. there is no longer any excuse and failure to perform maintenance that leads to people's deaths should result in lengthy prison sentences for every person who had the capability to determine or set budgets for maintenance and failed to do so.

That fines and even jail time will do nothing to change the tendency of for-profit corporations to slash long-term maintenance costs in service of quarterly profits, which is a strong argument for nationalization of utilities, I'm in complete agreement with you there, too. I just wanted to make it clear that there is already legal precedent in California for utilities' shareholders bearing the costs of these types of liabilities, and not rate payers.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute

FRINGE posted:

"Nationalize it" is not crazy.

I don't think nationalizing is crazy in general, but the prop itself that was being floated had no real details, budgeting, or plan of action. It was just "Nationalize all the private utility companies in California and uh... figure it out as we go I guess. Also it would authorize California to issue a bond that would in no way even begin to cover the costs of buying and merging several multi-billion dollar public companies into a state entity."

FRINGE
May 23, 2003
title stolen for lf posting

Leperflesh posted:

I just wanted to make it clear that there is already legal precedent in California for utilities' shareholders bearing the costs of these types of liabilities, and not rate payers.
I remembered that, I guess my basic cynicism is that they have a roomful of analysts figuring out how do exactly that, while calling it something else.

Why would they not? From there perspective there is no real risk. Worst case they take a severance payout and get a new job.

There needs to be severe punishments, leveled against human executives, for corporate malfeasance of these types.

Proust Malone
Apr 4, 2008

The only silver lining is that Darrell Issa put $2M of his own money for the recall with the assumption that he’d be the republican candidate to replace Davis.

Instant Sunrise
Apr 12, 2007


The manger babies don't have feelings. You said it yourself.

Ron Jeremy posted:

The only silver lining is that Darrell Issa put $2M of his own money for the recall with the assumption that he’d be the republican candidate to replace Davis.

At least post the video of him crying about being bigdogged out of his own recall election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VW0v7wwfkQ

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016





Here we go again! Someone wants to split our great state and take the rural parts into “New California”

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-california-declares-independence-from-rest-of-state/

EDIT: removing obviously political sentiments. I forgot that we actually have a politics thread.

sb hermit fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Jan 16, 2018

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
https://twitter.com/NWSLosAngeles/status/953807194956468225

The 101's still closed between Santa Barbara and Ventura, due to mud. Now the 5 might have problems, due to snow. :rip:

withak
Jan 15, 2003


Fun Shoe
Someone tell the weather that freedom of movement in and out of the LA basin is a fundamental human right.

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Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute
I used to live in Castaic right at the southern base of the Grapevine, and any time it snowed up there and forced a closure it completely paralyzed the entire valley. It was bad enough that my family really would walk several miles to the grocoery store - uphill - and then back like some kind of angry old man story because it was still quicker than fighting the resulting gridlock.

Good times.

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