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oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Orange Devil posted:

In the case of the US, no there really isn't. Just like the government shouldn't be run like a corporation, it shouldn't be run like a loving household either.

Clinton should've been using that money to help poor people.

Government surplus and deficits are one of the key ways change the economy. Running perpetual deficits for no reason like the US does damage the long run as the very real interest payments eat into your revenue, it also reduces resilience when a crisis hits. The US pays a couple 100 Billion in interest per year, money that doesn't help provide any services.

When people talk about government ROI it isn't really about how much in turn it would grow it's revenue or making a profit like a corporation. It's about making each dollar more effective at providing services and economic growth. Straight up giving money to poor people is more economically stimulating than say the F35 which is negative not just because of the money wasted bombing people but also a lot of the money just get siphoned off not getting spent so that dollar isn't going around being productive. Universal health care means healthier people makes a more productive economy along with massive savings by removing the profit motive.

You can have a surplus and help poor people if your tax structure is right which the US isn't remotely close to.

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Veskit
Mar 2, 2005

I love capitalism!! DM me for the best investing advice!
There's nothing worse than people not understand US monetary policy in the John Oliver meme thread.

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!

Phenotype posted:

Is there a movement where you want your businesses to get to a point where they're fiscally solvent and have enough in the bank for research and development but after that making money isn't as important as improving the product?

lmao if your company is fiscally solvent and you havent taken loans against every asset it owns to gamble more on the stock market or give yourself(and shareholders) a stock buyback

LividLiquid
Apr 13, 2002

It's always bugged me when people compare the government budget to a household budget not just because it's an asinine way of looking at things that don't translate at all, but because even if you buy into that metric, the crowd who champions that simplistic view of things would take one look at the family budget and decide that the first thing to eliminate is food.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
The mentality and purpose of the government budget doesn't translate into household budgeting but it doesn't mean you don't have to balance the books. Insolvent=no government. There are economies like Japan that have so much debt it has stagnated.

That said the spending goals are almost completely inverted as spending isn't there to help the government(Defence, institutions etc being exceptions) but to provide services without user payer market rates like a corporate entity. Then there is the fact it's everybody's money and not, encouraging flippant spending and taking(Rich tax cuts) as the politicians frequently take no responsibility. Also the ability to manipulate the economy.

So no, it isn't a household budget but people think as such because the surplus/deficit is the only thing they consider and can relate to day to day. :votegop: also lol the taxation = theft crowd.

Veskit
Mar 2, 2005

I love capitalism!! DM me for the best investing advice!

oohhboy posted:

There are economies like Japan that have so much debt it has stagnated.

There we go talking about monetary policy in a thread dedicated to a show that gifted a city a giant choochoo train set, while still not fundamentally understanding core concepts like Japan's economic issues aren't related to it's debt building monetary policy.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Phenotype posted:

Is there a movement where you want your businesses to get to a point where they're fiscally solvent and have enough in the bank for research and development but after that making money isn't as important as improving the product?

Sort of. B Corporations and the concept of the triple bottom line both are centered around valuing workers and the environment at a level equal to chasing profits.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

I mean, don't get me wrong, I know there's problems with severe austerity measures, and there's lovely ways some governments go about increasing revenues, but there's still advantages to decreasing national debt. The US does benefit from having enough influence to borrow indefinitely for now, as well as US dollars being a valuable export in themselves from some old schenanigans in setting up the world monetary system, but that may all fall apart at some point.

And it definitely doesn't help that US politics has turned the debt into a ticking time bomb because it's an excuse to holler and yell about raising the debt ceiling, and I keep expecting Mr. Three-bankrupcies-and-a-piss-fetish to pull the trigger on the whole thing and default.

Honestly, it's not like trying to increase revenue is a mystery for the ages. There's basically a blueprint on how, just reverse all those Republican tax cuts. Or boost IRS funding, LWT did a whole sement on that one.

MegaZeroX
Dec 11, 2013

"I'm Jack Frost, ho! Nice to meet ya, hee ho!"



oohhboy posted:

The mentality and purpose of the government budget doesn't translate into household budgeting but it doesn't mean you don't have to balance the books. Insolvent=no government. There are economies like Japan that have so much debt it has stagnated.

My understanding is that the Japanese economy stagnated for a combination of reasons, and the debt not being one of them. AFAIK, this is the gist of what happened with Japan

  1. Japan has an economic bubble burst, seemingly leading to a normal recession
  2. Japan's economy didn't seem to recover as expected, due to Japanese people being more culturally inclined to save, and China becoming more and more of a trade power
  3. Japan tries to fix this with excessive quantitative easing, causing Japan to have interest rates near 0 (nowadays the interest rate is negative)
  4. This turns Japan into a liquidity trap, making it so Japanese people spend even less
  5. Japan's population begins to decline, as the government still continues to refuse to take in immigrants. More and more, China takes the mantle of the major eastern manufacturer.

Of course, this is just my surface level knowledge. I'm no expert, and could be wrong with any of these points.

Duzzy Funlop
Jan 13, 2010

Hi there, would you like to try some spicy products?

MegaZeroX posted:

My understanding is that the Japanese economy stagnated for a combination of reasons, and the debt not being one of them. AFAIK, this is the gist of what happened with Japan

  1. Japan has an economic bubble burst, seemingly leading to a normal recession
  2. Japan's economy didn't seem to recover as expected, due to Japanese people being more culturally inclined to save, and China becoming more and more of a trade power
  3. Japan tries to fix this with excessive quantitative easing, causing Japan to have interest rates near 0 (nowadays the interest rate is negative)
  4. This turns Japan into a liquidity trap, making it so Japanese people spend even less
  5. Japan's population begins to decline, as the government still continues to refuse to take in immigrants. More and more, China takes the mantle of the major eastern manufacturer.

Of course, this is just my surface level knowledge. I'm no expert, and could be wrong with any of these points.

To be fair, your account of the situation is more on point than the one of that other poster, but at the end of the day, you're still two guys arguing monetary policy in a fake news comedy show thread :shrug:

MegaZeroX
Dec 11, 2013

"I'm Jack Frost, ho! Nice to meet ya, hee ho!"



Duzzy Funlop posted:

To be fair, your account of the situation is more on point than the one of that other poster, but at the end of the day, you're still two guys arguing monetary policy in a fake news comedy show thread :shrug:

We got to do something in this thead for the next two months. Here, have a kitten

Skippy McPants
Mar 19, 2009

MegaZeroX posted:

We got to do something in this thead for the next two months. Here, have a kitten

Maybe lock the thread until new episodes show up? I know some other TV threads do that to keep the poo poo posting to a minimum between seasons.

pwn
May 27, 2004

This Christmas get "Shoes"









:pwn: :pwn: :pwn: :pwn: :pwn:
Or, ignore it until there’s new episodes and let people carry on.

Servaetes
Sep 10, 2003

False enemy or true friend?

Skippy McPants posted:

Maybe lock the thread until new episodes show up? I know some other TV threads do that to keep the poo poo posting to a minimum between seasons.

Given the terrible OP got permabanned, yeah the mod should lock or close the thread, make a new one when the show resumes rather than me getting baited checking the thread for updates and imsteqd it's just a bunch of goobers arguing about DND/CSPAM crap outside of the containment zones they should discuss it

Or just post stuff about Oliver or things related to him because yknow that's what this thread should be etc

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

Servaetes posted:

or things related to him

So that would be politics then

socialsecurity
Aug 30, 2003





Servaetes posted:

Given the terrible OP got permabanned, yeah the mod should lock or close the thread, make a new one when the show resumes rather than me getting baited checking the thread for updates and imsteqd it's just a bunch of goobers arguing about DND/CSPAM crap outside of the containment zones they should discuss it

Or just post stuff about Oliver or things related to him because yknow that's what this thread should be etc

This is a political show I don't understand how you want people to talk about it without talking about politics.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??




Fun Shoe

socialsecurity posted:

This is a political show I don't understand how you want people to talk about it without talking about politics.

Sometimes he makes fun of other things.

But yeah, it's hard to discuss a show that contains mostly political content without discussing the politics discussed on the show. Honestly, if discussing politics on this board is such a big no-no, maybe this thread should be moved to a board where political stuff is discussed. And the Bill Maher thread, too.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~

tarlibone posted:

Sometimes he makes fun of other things.

But yeah, it's hard to discuss a show that contains mostly political content without discussing the politics discussed on the show. Honestly, if discussing politics on this board is such a big no-no, maybe this thread should be moved to a board where political stuff is discussed. And the Bill Maher thread, too.

Eh, we talk about politics plenty in TV IV. When people generally try to shut down politics chat it's cause they've got lovely opinions and don't want to have to disclose them.

pwn
May 27, 2004

This Christmas get "Shoes"









:pwn: :pwn: :pwn: :pwn: :pwn:
And in that spirit, i would like to address the poor souls who just can’t even with all these posts, and would rather shut it down until the show returns: Go ahead and un-bookmark this thread, and then go into your phone and set a reminder for February 3 2019 to re-bookmark it. While we don’t know exactly when in February the show returns, not reading the thread for the next two months should limit your exposure to discussions that don’t interest you.

Veskit
Mar 2, 2005

I love capitalism!! DM me for the best investing advice!
God drat that's a rarity hot take if ive ever seen one.


If what you're discussing could be copy and pasted into a different thread then yeah probably doesn't belong here. If it's relat d to the show then keep it. I dunno how anyone can make the argument that this is a general politics thread.

Servaetes
Sep 10, 2003

False enemy or true friend?

Veskit posted:

God drat that's a rarity hot take if ive ever seen one.


If what you're discussing could be copy and pasted into a different thread then yeah probably doesn't belong here. If it's relat d to the show then keep it. I dunno how anyone can make the argument that this is a general politics thread.

Exactly what I was trying to say

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muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


Servaetes posted:

Given the terrible OP got permabanned, yeah the mod should lock or close the thread, make a new one when the show resumes \

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