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I get the occasional side gig with Geekatoo every now and then, but to be honest, I want to get my pilot's license and with a single income for my wife and I while she's on unpaid disability, I think I can do better in earning some money to do so. As such I'm working with skilled friends to get a website and business card going. I'm going to talk to my retired-lawyer father about incorporating as an LLC and figuring out tax stuff before I hit the ground and start flyering/distributing business cards. With this I aim to start marketing my services for computer repair/cleanup/tutoring/etc. for home and small business users in my area. I'm in North Jersey so I have a decent range to work with. Has anyone else gone legit like this or scaled up a gig-based operation? Anyone have any pointers on how to handle the business side of things? I don't plan on taking out loans or seeking capital - to be honest, I should be OK for now with just me and my tool kit, and my experience from the job. Primarily, what I want to learn: - What do you guys do to market yourselves? I plan on going the flat-rate route and getting decent enough documentation for estimates/contracts and the like so I don't get sucked into 6-hour fix-fests on a malware removal job, or offering an hourly rate. I'll put up flyers in business in the towns that I want to service, same with business cards, and maybe run a free seminar or two at community organizations and stuff like that to get the word out. - How do you handle taxes? I figure I'll collect tax and keep it in a separate bank account, talk to my accountant about projected amount to set aside for corporate income tax, etc. - Any pointers for the back-office/operational side of things? I have Google Apps set up and will be configuring Spiceworks as a ticketing system, and keep records on basic spreadsheets for now. Very much open to constructive/helpful criticism, advice, etc. on the above and anything else that should be considered before/during operating an LLC for my nights/weekends. Mods, if this is too BFC for SH/SC please feel free to move, but I figured it'd be best to start with the practitioners.
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Jun 16, 2014 20:17
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Are you confident that your market will support your proposed business venture? Most major metro area's have a ton of 'computer repair' folks advertising on Craigslist and anywhere else they can, and it's a huge race to the bottom. My local Craigslist has such gems as $30 Computer Repair YOU COME TO ME! ONLY $50 TO FIX IT - PERIOD $25 VIRUS SPECIAL THIS MONTH!!! !XP NOT SUPPORTED AFTER MARCH..GET ANY WINDOWS 7 FULLY INSTALLED..$40! I'm not trying to poo poo on your parade, it's just you'll be competing with 17 and 18 year old kids to make 30 bucks. You may find it not worth it. See if there is a local MSP that could use you part time or something.
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Jun 16, 2014 20:49
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skipdogg posted:Are you confident that your market will support your proposed business venture? Most major metro area's have a ton of 'computer repair' folks advertising on Craigslist and anywhere else they can, and it's a huge race to the bottom. My local Craigslist has such gems as True enough. I intend to market myself with my certifications and experience. I can probably project a more professional appearance with the design on my site and logo, but it's going to come down to brass tacks. I'll offer free remote diagnosis - up to 20-30ish minutes via remote connection - or a flat $20 fee to come to the client, waived if they hire me to do the work. The flat fees will be based upon a base rate. To be honest, while I do make more on average during the day, I don't mind going down to around $60-$75ish for malware removal as a flat rate. As to hourly if it's a series of issues or if they want me to take care of a bunch of things, I'd base my rates upon Geek Squad and/or an aggregate of what the competition is doing. The good news: if things really do suck, I'll only be out around $300ish total. $150 for the site, my graphic designer friend owes me a few favors so logos and cards are free, and I bought my hosting and site via Lithium over on SA-Mart. $30ish for the year. LLC filing is $125 in NJ. It'd be a loss, true, but if I make no income to tax and I decide to let the LLC dissolve by nonrenewal, it's not huge. I don't intend to make this my day job. I have enough disposable cash to start things up, and if I have no investors and no loans, exiting is as easy as just closing up shop. I'll do what I can to differentiate myself through service. Hell, I'll even go door-to-door if I have a lazy day or something.
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Jun 16, 2014 21:01
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Find charity/non-profit organizations and donate free time to help clean up there computers. Do a very good job, be polite to everyone. After you've spent a bit of time there, hand out some business cards or something. Word-of-mouth is king if you want to have any hope of success. I guarantee this will work better than going door-to-door. I'm not saying don't put up fliers and advertise or whatever -- just that instead of going door-to-door, volunteer. Find out who your real competitors are. Find out everything you can about them (I mean, don't get creepy). Find out what they do poorly and make sure that you do it well.
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Jun 17, 2014 00:18
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Un-l337-Pork posted:Find charity/non-profit organizations and donate free time to help clean up there computers. Do a very good job, be polite to everyone. After you've spent a bit of time there, hand out some business cards or something. Word-of-mouth is king if you want to have any hope of success. I guarantee this will work better than going door-to-door. I'm not saying don't put up fliers and advertise or whatever -- just that instead of going door-to-door, volunteer. Not a bad idea. I volunteer at a cat shelter already, so I can probably branch into fixing their stuff and getting recommendations through that. I can supplement the talks I'd give with working on the organization's stuff and give a discount for the membership.
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Jun 17, 2014 13:16
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I did a similar thing for a year and it didn't work out because (a) I didn't have enough leads and (b) I didn't have the drive to cultivate leads. Don't waste any time on talking with lawyers and setting up LLCs unless you are absolutely 100% positive you can generate enough incoming business for this to be worthwhile. EDIT: One intangible benefit is that you can fill gaps on your resume with your "company." I've literally had background check companies call my personal cell phone and ask me to verify my employment at <lastname> LLC. With a straight face, I confirm their request and they go on their way.
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Jun 17, 2014 15:44
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You will probably make better money tending bar than doing PC repair these days. I used to have a store front business doing this and I sold the business right about when the iPhone landed which was a good turn of events. I had great word of mouth in my area and very little competition but the market is trending away to other devices slowly and they are a pain in the rear end to deal with. If you're in a big area you will have intense competition from multiple angles and most people barely know any better so they end up at Best Buy anyway. If you have a niche you can serve (like maintenance contracts with small businesses who don't want to employ an IT guy) then go for it. In terms of what you charge that varies wildly from place to place, impossible to generalize. Make sure you factor in gas, wear and tear on your car, what your time/expertise is worth and any potential liability. Always do a backup of anything before you start making changes. I carried around a huge USB to Sata dock with complete drive cloning tools which saved my bacon more than once. Make sure you quote all work before its done and factor in otherwise non-recoverable costs like extra time for things you didn't anticipate. For your client tracking just keep it simple. All you need is contact info and a set of notes about each incident. For taxes plan on half of what you make being the governments and anything below that is a bonus you can throw into a retirement fund. Don't bother with LLCs or any of that nonsense until you see if this is a viable way to make money in your area based on you actually trying to do it for awhile. Really though I would caution you to simply do something else, particularly if you plan on dealing with residential customers. People are going to ask you to fix Nintendo consoles, tablets and all sorts of other crap and they will want to pay $30 for it. Your profit margins will probably be very small. Stick to businesses if you can but that requires a lot of drive and marketing savvy. Sorry if this seems pessimistic but the market for this is really awful unless you're really good at marketing yourself and have a great knowledge base that covers a wide range of software and hardware skills. There is money to be made with small businesses but it requires a lot of networking and time. The Gunslinger fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Jun 17, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2014 16:07
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revmoo posted:I did a similar thing for a year and it didn't work out because (a) I didn't have enough leads and (b) I didn't have the drive to cultivate leads. That is a fair call. I'm prepared to write off the startup costs since they're not too huge. Worst-case scenario, I make no money over time. Middle-case scenario, I make some money. Best-case, I reach my goal, have enough to fund my pilot's license lessons, and that's that. The Gunslinger posted:You will probably make better money tending bar than doing PC repair these days. I used to have a store front business doing this and I sold the business right about when the iPhone landed which was a good turn of events. I had great word of mouth in my area and very little competition but the market is trending away to other devices slowly and they are a pain in the rear end to deal with. If you're in a big area you will have intense competition from multiple angles and most people barely know any better so they end up at Best Buy anyway. I'm hoping that my secondary niche would be doing lightweight after-hours onsites or otherwise for MSPs. My concern for the business side is that I'm not quitting my day job; not sure how many businesses would be OK waiting for a technician to come after he's done with work. I'd happily try marketing to them, but I'm pretty sure that most businesses hate direct-solicitations. I'll probably stick to businesses where I don't normally buy stuff to make sure I don't end up making GBS threads where I eat, at least. My real logic on the LLC front would be legal protection in case something goes wrong or in case someone decides it'd be great to sue me - keeping business assets separate is worth the $125ish to establish in NJ. Bartending wasn't really an option - I'm not a night owl - but there's not much that I can do that makes enough money with my skills during my free time. I'm in a bunch of market research panel databases, and I might get one actual check a month for a hundred bucks or so. Not much to shake a stick at. To be honest, I am totally open to moonlighting work that doesn't keep me up until midnight on work days and has a decent pay rate. I don't think you're pessimistic at all - there's a huge amount of undercut that I'd have to deal with, but if I can't make a case for my rates then I would rather have rolled the dice and tried, having lost the startup $$, than missed out on an opportunity.
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Jun 17, 2014 16:23
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MJP posted:True enough. I intend to market myself with my certifications and experience. I can probably project a more professional appearance with the design on my site and logo, but it's going to come down to brass tacks. Don't kid yourself. People are cheap, they will go for the cheapest option almost always. If you already had a SMB clientel built up this might be a good idea. I gave up in this field because there was no way I was going to compete w/ the $15 I FIX U COMPUTAR GUD market.
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Jun 18, 2014 16:44
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Stanley Pain posted:Don't kid yourself. People are cheap, they will go for the cheapest option almost always. If you already had a SMB clientel built up this might be a good idea. Well, the way things are going it looks like I may as well not incorporate - I'll probably just spend some time flyering, maybe give one or two marketing talks and go word-of-mouth. If I get cheap jobs it's better than nothing, but I'd rather take the $180 hit for the website/registration/hosting, see if I can reach out for cheap/free SEO work (it'll probably suck but if it's $20 for some dude in India to do it, I may as well fuel the outsourcing boom that's taking American jobs), put together some biz cards and flyers, then see about going LLC later, that's a good enough framework plan.
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Jun 18, 2014 16:59
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Don't bother spending money on a website unless you actually have a way to drive traffic to it. The only way you'll find success in this is if you get out there and network.
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Jun 18, 2014 17:40
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revmoo posted:Don't bother spending money on a website unless you actually have a way to drive traffic to it. Even if the website is just more or less an advertisement and not an e-commerce portal? I was going to put up sample rates and whatnot, some testimonials, etc. I mean, my plan was to pound the pavement with businesses and do the whole word-of-mouth thing with previous independent contract clients, do the talks, etc. I don't intend to just sit on my rear end and be all "SEO SEO SEO DRIVE TRAFFIC CLICKS AFFILIATES MARKETING" - I was going to run it old school in terms of marketing.
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Jun 18, 2014 18:00
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MJP posted:True enough. I intend to market myself with my certifications and experience. I can probably project a more professional appearance with the design on my site and logo, but it's going to come down to brass tacks. A few random ideas: 1> Don't do residential, ever. Unless they're a small business owner or CEO or something. It's just not worth it. 2> Focus on small businesses, 10-50 people. 3> Don't charge too little, don't necessarily try to undercut all possible competition. Cheapest available will get you customers you don't want and cheapen the appearance of your service to other, more attractive clients. I think you're mind is in totally the wrong space for this, getting malware off of Granny's laptop is not a business model. Being the go-to guy for small law firms and dentists offices, etc, IS. If you can get a few business owners to really get a positive opinion of you, that can grow this venture beyond what you can handle personally pretty quick. But it's all about networking and getting the right customers. Good luck?
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Jun 18, 2014 18:36
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I was thinking of doing the same thing, until I sat down and really looked at what I would be up against. Keep in mind that repairing, troubleshooting, and installing systems is my day job. I work for a large office supply store that is themed after a paper fastener in their electronics department. I've got a great relationship with a lot of my customers. I've been out to many of their houses and/or businesses to either install a new system or figure out what's going on with their existing one. They seem to prefer to talk to me if I'm available. Most of them have remarked that if I ever opened up my own business, they would jump over to me in a heartbeat. I am flattered by their appreciation of me. But I'll never attempt to open an independent shop. I enjoy having the backing of a large business in case something goes wrong, or they perceive something went wrong. The main problem I was facing is that even though I may be able to offer a better quality service than the other guys in town (only a couple, small town) most people would still choose whoever is cheapest. Out of a couple dozen businesses who have said, I believe sincerely, that they would love me to be their IT guy, not a one of them would pay what I would need to charge to make a living. That's the bottom line. If someone charged $50 but I had to charge $75? They're going to the cheap kid who doesn't actually have a family to support. And there is always going to be a kid that's decent with computers in town who will undercut you. The second problem that I do run up against even though I work for a company, is they expect me to fix their computer any time, for any reason, for no extra charge. Cleaned viruses off and then two months later it gets hit by lightning? Well it was working the last time you fixed it, must have been something you did to get more money out of me. You will be perpetually on their mind if anything goes wrong. Even not as your full time job, would it be work the headache and possible lawsuit from John Q. Ignorant? I'm not up to speed on what a LLC would protect you from, but if a particularly vindictive or outright crazy individual got it in their head to be after you, how much could it honestly protect you legally? What if they decide to drag your personal name through the mud instead of just badmouthing the company name? Don't take this as everyone is like this, but if you work in IT you know the bad ones stand out and the good ones are forgotten quickly. Don't work for people you don't know. Fix your aunts computer for dinner, your cousins for a six-pack. There's enough competition now that even if you didn't lose money at it, you'd lose sanity.
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Jun 18, 2014 21:20
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AlternateAccount posted:A few random ideas: The best thing I could probably focus on are small retail businesses - and that's probably the same pitfall as home support. Doctors and laywers would want a day-job guy, and I have a day job. Probably what I need to do is adjust what my goals are and just aim to spread the word of who I am and what I do, and work with what I get, rather than making A Business. A website and decent pavement-pounding marketing will probably go a way towards what I want.
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Jun 19, 2014 18:14
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MJP posted:Even if the website is just more or less an advertisement and not an e-commerce portal? I was going to put up sample rates and whatnot, some testimonials, etc. I mean, my plan was to pound the pavement with businesses and do the whole word-of-mouth thing with previous independent contract clients, do the talks, etc. I don't intend to just sit on my rear end and be all "SEO SEO SEO DRIVE TRAFFIC CLICKS AFFILIATES MARKETING" - I was going to run it old school in terms of marketing. First off, don't publish rates, you'll either price yourself away from potential customers or undercut yourself. You take what you can get from every client and that number will always vary. I have a website similar to what you're proposing and I get zero traffic on it. I can justify its existence because it gives me a bit of a presence and the only cost I have is domain registration. I wouldn't spend any more on it. Feel free to put one up but do it yourself and keep it simple, and don't expect to get any business from it. Oh and put a Google voice number on there if you do put up a site, you'll get inundated with spam on your phone otherwise. If you were going to do residential, you need to do it the way an acquaintance of mine does it--he has 100% of his customers drop their PC off to him (at work haha). That way you don't have to deal with driving to people's houses, using their lovely, disgusting equipment, and have to drive back home to get tools you forgot. House calls should be billed at a MINIMUM of 100$ just for showing up, and probably closer to 150.
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Jun 19, 2014 18:48
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If you do personal PC repairs for people, be prepared to be paid in things other than cash. I have been offered fish, homemade sausage and of course, weed. I quit doing random Craigslist PC repairs about 5 years ago. I still have a handful of commercial clients that toss me $500+ for odd jobs a few times a year. Hit up small businesses. Fixing other peoples personal PCs is an adventure in futility.
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Jun 20, 2014 17:41
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Slack3r posted:If you do personal PC repairs for people, be prepared to be paid in things other than cash. I have been offered fish, homemade sausage and of course, weed. I quit doing random Craigslist PC repairs about 5 years ago. I still have a handful of commercial clients that toss me $500+ for odd jobs a few times a year. While I don't touch the stuff I have friends who do. If they pay in cash, we'll see. I don't mind being paid in stuff that I can at least turn around on Craigslist - or if it's good produce, I't take it.
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Jun 20, 2014 18:35
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MJP posted:While I don't touch the stuff I have friends who do. If they pay in cash, we'll see. Ask yourself honestly if it's worth your time taking someone's unwanted electronics and chasing down Craigslist leads to flip it. It happens more than you think, and you'll probably wind up adding parts to your collection at home. It's hard to figure out what people will take or offer you. Worse yet, your home clientel will tend to surprise you with "I can't pay that, but I can offer you this awesome wireless router that my pal gave me! He says its worth something!" One home user constantly talked about the cost of their expectant baby, and another talked about an upcoming wedding. I'm cool with being flexible, but it's disrespectful in principle to spring personal issues on someone when you've previously agreed a fixed rate. Businesses just don't try to pull that poo poo - they pay, sometimes begrudgingly, but they pay. On that note, build your relationships on honesty by being upfront about what you can do - then stand by it. I've had a few projects that I couldn't finish on my own, but by being upfront and firm with expectations, they knew that I'd probably need to go to others to get things done, and in the end I learned a few new things and the business was happy to continue working with me. There's good wisdom to heed in the thread: Home users deserve good work as much as anyone, but there are plenty of others who have lessons to learn and skills to grow. Focus on businesses and you'll experience a better quality of growth.
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Jun 21, 2014 16:10
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I made a decent amount of money from 2005 to 2007 by buying banged up mobile phones off auction sites, putting a new china-bought shell on them, then reselling the phones as-new. Certainly more than people would've offered to pay me for the services. But, you do assume the business risk like this, and every item you cannot sell will end up as a 100% loss for you so you can really only do this with things that are guaranteed to have a market - iPhones, bikes etc - and not some guy's hosed up toaster.
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Jun 21, 2014 17:06
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peak debt posted:I made a decent amount of money from 2005 to 2007 by buying banged up mobile phones off auction sites, putting a new china-bought shell on them, then reselling the phones as-new. Certainly more than people would've offered to pay me for the services. But, you do assume the business risk like this, and every item you cannot sell will end up as a 100% loss for you so you can really only do this with things that are guaranteed to have a market - iPhones, bikes etc - and not some guy's hosed up toaster. So... You scammed people? Or did you mean to say as like-new?
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Jun 21, 2014 22:38
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