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Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012
Please give me free quality professional advice so I can be a baby about it and insult you


So yesterday I posted a thread on :v: asking whether Takedown: Red Sabre :jihad: was any good because I was hoping it would scratch my itch for a slow paced old-school Rainbow 6 shooter. Everyone said that it was poo poo and a huge disappointment and that it was a waste of even the $1 that it's worth even now on Steam (see: http://store.steampowered.com/app/236510/).

However, there was one guy who posted a screenshot of his playtime in the game (about 26 hours iirc) and said that everyone itt was retarded and that it was actually fun. This guy singlehandedly convinced me to buy it anyway and ignore the circlejerk.

I'm very glad that I did.

During my first 3 hours of gameplay I decided to write a list of +s and -s about the game, coming at it from a low-expectation and is-this-game-like-rainbow-6 perspective.

spoiler alert: it was exactly what i hoped it would be

The following is my list of +s and -s about Takedown: Red Sabre based on my experiences with the game. I am a very old school Rainbow 6 player and I came into this game with very low expectations due to the Total Biscuit review (and later PSA), random internet people's advice and opinions about the game.

One thing I want to be clear about here, though, is that I am not the kind of human being who gives a gently caress about cosmetic poo poo like sexy reload animations, graphics, et cetera. Imo all of these things are completely fine. They're not as good as ArmA 3 or Skyrim but they don't take away from my experience at all.

---

While checking this game out and making this list, I fully was wearing my Rainbow 6, Rogue Spear, SWAT 4, and Raven Shield hats and I try to make direct comparisons to each of those games as often as I can in this list for you:

(these are in the order I wrote them down while playing the game)

  • + Level editor (not even Tribes has this) is exactly like the old Raven Shield one (because they're based on the same engine), which is way loving better than the old Rogue Spear one. This is a huge plus for me because I love making custom poo poo in games and then playing them with my friends.

  • + 3 game modes across 13 different maps by default (however the Mission game mode limits the pool to only 5)

  • + Mirrors and glass in general actually loving works -- there are genuine reflections that you can use to see people around corners, such as when on the top floor of the Biolab where you can see enemies under your feet by looking at the tall windows.

  • + Gimping works just like in the old Rainbow 6 games.

  • + AI is just as good at shooting as you are (assuming that you don't suck at crosshair placement and aiming), but only when they're alerted to your presence. It's exactly like Rainbow 6, except instead of multiple difficulty settings (Recruit, Veteran, Elite) each AI has its own difficulty settings. Some are retarded and cowardly whereas others are 360 noscope mlg xxx tier. Either extreme is very rare (maybe 1 per mission) and most AI are probably in between Raven Shield's Veteran and Elite difficulties imo.

  • + Atmosphere is just like the old Rainbow 6 games (e.g. rooftop biolab insertion feels exactly like the Raven Shield Penthouse insertion zone).

  • + You die in 1 hit most of the time unless you equip heavy armor, in which case you can take 2~5 hits. This is exactly the same as in each of the old Rainbow 6 games. It depends on where you were hit and the caliber of the gun that the guy who shot you has. HOWEVER, unlike in the old Rainbow 6 games, when you wear Heavy armor you are not allowed to sprint (default: LCtrl) anymore. imo that's completely fine.

  • + Hit detection on narrow edges (like shooting through doorways at tight angles) are exactly the same as in Raven Shield -- presumably because they're built with the same engine.

  • - When you die, you don't get any feedback about your stats or whatever (e.g. accuracy, how many kills you got, et cetera).

  • - There's no indication of how many enemies in total you're up against. Because of this, you can easily get bored running circles around the map searching for the last guy.

  • + The game can only be done slowly, so it's just like Rainbow 6. imo, it's even slower than that, though -- I'll explain why I think this later on down this list.

  • + The relationship between accuracy and movement feels exactly the same as in the old Rainbow 6 games (but it goes out the window when you scope in or use ironsights, which did technically exist in the old Rainbow 6 games because you could still zoom a little even without a scope anyway -- it just didn't look like that once they introduced first person weapon models in Raven Shield).

  • - It lacks certain functionality that people consider "basic" or "essential" nowadays (e.g. being able to change options while in the middle of a mission) but weren't exactly taken for granted back in the old Rainbow 6 days. Most faggots on the internet seem to judge a book by its cover, so to speak, and so they look at this lack of "basic" functionality in the menus and just drop the game completely and tell everyone it loving sucks. In my opinion, people who do this can go suck a dick.

  • - TotalBiscuit complained about how there are only 3 graphical settings in his review videos, but tbh I don't care because I get 60fps on my old laptop with Medium and Low settings... and all 3 settings don't take away from my gameplay experience at all so imo he's just nitpicking on that point, at least).

  • + It *FEELS* like I'm playng a modern Rogue Spear game, except the pace is slower (tbh Rainbow 6 and Rogue Spear both were very fast paced in terms of movement and it wasn't until Raven Shield that they slowed it down, which I loved personally... but this game slows it down even more while still letting you run and sprint through clear areas at the old Rainbow 6 and Rogue Spear running speeds, so I'm 100% cool with this and won't list it as a minus).

  • + Sound *ACTUALLY MATTERS* in this game, similar to how it matters in CounterStrike (although for different reasons). The AI will even hear you if you so much as switch to your grenades! In my opinion, this is a huge step up from all of the old Raven Shield games. Whereas in the old Rainbow 6 games, you can run around with Heavy Armor and it makes no significant difference to how the AI detects you... in this game you can actually see very easily how the AI reacts to your movements, even through walls and doors. All of this makes the gameplay slow down even more, which makes me much happier personally because that's how tactical shooters are supposed to be played in the first loving place!

  • + You can choose multiple insertion zones both in Single AND in Multiplayer. In the old Rainbow 6 games, you could only do this in a few special missions for single player... but *NEVER* for multiplayer. This is a big plus for me because in Multiplayer you can divide your team into actual separate groups that start in completely different areas of the map.

  • - There is no 2D map or anything for the missions you can play. You have to learn them as you go. This isn't a big minus for me, personally, but it is definitely a minus. It means that only people with enough experience can actually plan ahead, which takes away from the fun for me. It adds a sense of exploration to the game, true, but I don't think that this sort of thing is appropriate for this kind of game.

  • - No pre-mission planning phase at all. The old Rainbow 6 games never did this for multiplayer, of course, but it was at least there in Single Player. Ultimately, though, it's not that big of a deal I guess but I'd still like to be able to do it in both Singleplayer and Multiplayer. It only adds to the fun of the game and doesn't take anything away at all imo.

  • + There is a decent selection of weapons and gadgets (which is what the game calls grenades and stuff). You can't give yourself a High Capacity mag like in Raven Shield (thank you jesus I never liked that feature anyway back then because it made the gameplay speed up unnecessarily since you hardly ever had to worry about taking cover to reload). It's a better weapon selection than Insurgency, at least, and that game goes for like $5~15 USD iirc (I don't feel like Googling it atm sorry).

  • - As far as I know, modding the game is just like in Raven Shield, which is to say not intentionally possible. I could be wrong on this one, though, because I didn't look into it very much... but at least it has a level editor I guess...

  • + Multiplayer has built in VOIP

  • - The multipalyer VOIP is open mic and I don't think you can change it to PTT...

  • + But at least you can mute people...

  • - People (like TotalBiscuit in his review, for example) say that the game crashes a lot for no reason, but in my 3 hours of experience so far it's only happened twice when trying to start a Single player mission. Yeah, it seemed random at the time, but I've died and had to restart missions like more than 100 times so far because the game is hard mode (which is a huge plus for me btw - I hate easy difficulty, babby poo poo games nowadays). 2 crashes out of 100 possible times for it to crash is still bad, but it's not as bad as people make it sound...

  • + TotalBiscuit complained that the game doesn't properly close down and that you have to manually shut it down via Task Manager, but that hasn't happened at all to me yet. I actually tried testing this a few times and I guess the developers must have fixed this one thing at least at some point. Nothing in any patch notes about it, though...

  • - Online multiplayer, in terms of lag or netcode or whatever, feels like I'm playing Quake 2 back in the old 56k days. When your ping is low (like <250ms), the game is playable... but other people with lovely connections can lag it up for everyone else. It's like how Quake 3 Arena was before the Lag Compensation stuff was discovered/implemented. However, as long as your ping (and everyone else's ping) is reasonable, the gameplay is fine.

  • + Despite the lag I just mentioned above, though, playing this game with lag is exactly like playing the old Rainbow 6 games with lag.
    The techniques that you had to use for clearing rooms and going around corners (e.g. slicing the pie, stutter stepping) with lag apply perfectly in this game as well when your ping is between like 100~250ms -- which you can check by pressing F1 by default, btw. That button isn't listed in the Controls for some reason. idk why...

  • + To finish discussing the lag stuff... as long as your ping is <250ms and you're playing with people who are willing to work together with you, the co-op experience is just as good (if not better imo) as the old Rainbow 6 games.

  • + The flashbang effect is awesome compared to each of the old Rainbow 6 games. Instead of just being a little blind spot or whatever, it's more like CounterStrike, except it leaves a slight blurry aftereffect (even in Low visual quality settings). In terms of how it affects the AI, it affects them exactly as well (or badly) as it used to in the old Rainbow 6 games.

  • - For multiplayer, you can only chat "normally" when actually playing or spectating. When in a lobby in between games, you can only use open mic... BUT you can still chat by bringing up the console, where chat records are logged, and manually using the "Say textgoeshere" command over and over to tell other people stuff. It doesn't really get in the way of too much because if you're playing with friends you can just use TeamSpeak and mute everyone in game I guess... but yeah it seems kind of dumb to have to do lobby chat via console instead of more "naturally."

  • + The soundtrack feels exactly like the old Rainbow 6 games. Same musical key, same tempo, same instruments used.

  • + You can't just hug walls on near corners like you could in the old Rainbow 6 games. It's like SWAT 4 here because your gun will automatically go down when you get too close to something. It doesn't become bothersome or annoying at all as long as you position yourself correctly. Anyone who complains about this just needs to git gud imo.

  • - Recoil (by which I actually mean to say "kickback") is exactly like in ArmA. It was nonexistent in Rainbow 6 and Raven Shield, but it existed in Raven Shield and SWAT 4 as just random direction jumps in between bullets. In this game, though, it's just like ArmA, which means it just makes the gun jump straight up and to the right a little bit. It's very easy to compensate when zoomed/scoped in or whatever. In my opinion, the kick's direction should be a little random (not kick downward, obviously, but like a little to the left or a little to the right) like in Raven Shield to make it not as easy to spray stuff down. This is more relevant of a complaint for Adversarial (i.e. Player vs Player) than Co-Op mode, though.

  • + The kickback is noticeably different for different guns, though, which is a nice, small detail imo.

  • + You can set time limits for all multiplayer (and even singleplayer) stuff. I like this a lot because missions tend to drag on in Co-Op since you don't know exactly how many AI you're hunting down and can easily require admin action in order to end.

  • - EDIT: I was doubtful about dedicated servers being possible here but they actually are, so I erased this one.


....

WHEW! What a wall of :words:, right? I wrote this poo poo down on paper while playing the game, pausing via Escape menu every now and then when I noticed something I liked or didn't like.

I just feel really strongly that I was misled by internet trolls who had no idea what they were talking about... so I wanted to post this as a PSA.

I hope that this pastebin may have helped to change a few minds here and there. I really do think that this game gets too much undeserved poo poo and that it's very underrated.

So yeah. I just wanted to make a PSA that Takedown: Red Sabre is pretty underrated imo.

I was gonna post this in Games but I feel like that board is reserved for Megathreads only nowadays, so yeah...

Love Stole the Day fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jun 26, 2014

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Lumpy the Cook
Feb 4, 2011

Drippy-goo-yay, mother-gunker!
You took a TotalBiscuit review seriously you dumb human being.

Mom with a blog
Jul 15, 2009

Comedy is basically self-deprecation.
that's a huge post for a game that costs a dollar

also it's not Rainbow Six Siege so...?

Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012
Please give me free quality professional advice so I can be a baby about it and insult you

Mash posted:

also it's not Rainbow Six Siege so...?
this is how i know you're new to this rainbow six stuff.

ubisoft killed the franchise 8 years ago with rainbow six: lockdown. when they announced vegas at e3 some years later they said the usual "we've heard your feedback!" but as has been demonstrated time and time again it was just bullshit and only turned the franchise into the call of duty clone that children like you whose first fps was halo 2 now associate with the rainbow six "brand."

if you think ubisoft's newest pile of poo poo is somehow going to bring the franchise back to its roots and reattract the same community that they singlehandedly destroyed almost a decade ago then you are almost as stupid as you are ignorant. i say that was a veteran, contributing member of the old rainbow 6 community.

edit: also,

Mash posted:

that's a huge post for a game that costs a dollar
it costs a dollar only because it was a flop. it was dead on arrival due to bad press and problems at launch, some of which have apparently been taken care of based on my experience with the game. i'm not saying it's a great game, nor am i saying that it's a bad game. i'm saying that its metascore of 34 is misleading, that it's underrated as a result, and is therefore well worth the $1 usd on steam right now.

Love Stole the Day fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jun 22, 2014

Drachenreiter
May 6, 2007

I want you to stick that green spotted egg up my ass so I can incubate it
Just play S.W.A.T. IV, OP. Close and Ban.

Mom with a blog
Jul 15, 2009

Comedy is basically self-deprecation.

Drachenreiter posted:

Just play S.W.A.T. IV, OP. Close and Ban.

Falsum
May 10, 2013

Crazy for the Bros
OP it's not cool to try to trick Imp Zone posters into buying lovely games.

Go do that in the Steam Summer Sale Games thread instead.

Doctor Butts
May 21, 2002

I played the game and it was ok for a dollar and it filled that rouge spear itch i've had for so long. more people should play so we can scratch that r6/swat itch

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012
look at all those loving WORDS

sexy cougar on the prowl
Dec 31, 2008
bad game, so what

Tokyo Incident
Nov 1, 2011

relax

Doctor Butts posted:

I played the game and it was ok for a dollar and it filled that rouge spear itch i've had for so long. more people should play so we can scratch that r6/swat itch

Scratch my itchy nuts haha.

Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012
Please give me free quality professional advice so I can be a baby about it and insult you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yzyGPfIcEA

chajusong
Oct 18, 2002
this g ame is epic fail.

Doctor Butts
May 21, 2002

Cosby Onahole posted:

Scratch my itchy nuts haha.

daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn

Dog Fat Man Chaser
Jan 13, 2009

maybe being miserable
is not unpredictable
maybe that's
the problem
with me
actually it is that bad

Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012
Please give me free quality professional advice so I can be a baby about it and insult you
Bumping this thread because the OP still stands and the current Steam Sale has it again at $0.99 USD.

Also, a couple months ago the head developer made a Postmortem video review on Youtube:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkDz7C1d2TA
  • The head developer got into an accident and had to go through major surgery and whatnot that lasted a very long time and only got back on his feet a couple months ago.
  • Their angel investor just randomly decided to stop giving them money and ran off to Africa to go hunt Rhinos, leaving them empty-handed.

Black Baby Goku
Apr 2, 2011

by Nyc_Tattoo
why is this thread in this forum

Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012
Please give me free quality professional advice so I can be a baby about it and insult you

WORST FORUMS GUY posted:

why is this thread in this forum

When I first posted this thread I wasn't sure if it was appropriate for Games. I was told that it was okay to post it there, so I PM'd a moderator back then to move the thread and he never answered... so it's stuck here I guess.

Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009

OP, I have literally never heard anyone talk about this game. I suggest visiting a psychiatrist.

Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009

Only casual kiddie fucktards are the ones saying Wild Knight: Remorphed: Online is bad [56k flies a golden llama]

Pewdiepie
Oct 31, 2010

Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009

Hoodrich
Feb 4, 2011

by Reene

lmfdao

Average Bear
Apr 4, 2010

NickRoweFillea
Sep 27, 2012

doin thangs

coolskull
Nov 11, 2007

I played it for twenty minutes and got like four humorous screen caps for my steam profile so was a net gain

Eye of Widesauron
Mar 29, 2014

Black Baby Goku
Apr 2, 2011

by Nyc_Tattoo

Fargield
Sep 27, 2008

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Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012
Please give me free quality professional advice so I can be a baby about it and insult you

BKPR posted:

I played it for twenty minutes and got like four humorous screen caps for my steam profile so was a net gain

The menus are poo poo and the friendly AI are poo poo... but if you can figure out how to get through the lovely menus and if you can figure out how to just play lone wolf and never bother with friendly AI at all... then the game is, imo, the closest thing you can get to a modern successor of the old Rainbow 6 games.

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