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We have managed to end up with two Dutch Shepherd (mixes, maybe?) siblings. We know we are in for a lot of work already because of the breed, but I've learned that by acquiring littermates, we have managed to double (or more) what we're in for. I'd love any advice/tips from those who've experienced it or avoided it or know about it. And because puppies, here are some photos!     edited to add: So far, I've got separate crates and separate feeding. I've been taking them on walks separately as well. We think they are around 11 or 12 weeks, but the vet says we'll know for sure around sixteen weeks when the incisors come in. Dust Radio fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 17:27
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| # ? May 20, 2024 00:05 |
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Should rename this thread "Help Me I'm Suicidal." If it were me I'd rehome one of the puppies, as that's what's best for them (if you can find an appropriate home). Two "average" puppies are a big enough pain in the rear end, but two potential Dutch mix puppies? My hair falls out just thinking about it. Sorry, that's all I got. I know there are some people here experienced with littermate syndrome, but it can be VERY hard to avoid. Good luck.
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Jul 1, 2014 18:41
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Skizzles posted:Two "average" puppies are a big enough pain in the rear end, but two potential Dutch mix puppies? My hair falls out just thinking about it. Yeeeeaaah, this. I raised two pet-quality low drive GSD littermates. They are now 3.5 and very good dogs. It can be done, but I do not recommend it. Some things for you to consider:
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Jul 1, 2014 19:01
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adventure in the sandbox posted:Have you raised a puppy before? Yes. quote:What is your housing situation like? I rent, and my one dog has caused damage. We own our home. quote:Do you have enough space that you can easily and conveniently keep the pups separate for hours? Large Victorian home with lots of space. quote:Do you have a yard to aid in housetraining and exercising? A third of an acre, fenced. quote:Are you connected to a dog community, ideally trainers with experience in high-energy high-drive breeds? I'm guessing these were either BYB or rescue pups, if so you will not have breeder support. yup. quote:Can you financially support these dogs? Triangulum has two adult (non-littermate!) GSD and has chosen to feed raw, and her adult male eats an incredible amount of calories. His food bill is high. What about vet costs? Spay/neuter? We're square there. quote:Most importantly: Do you have enough time? It takes far more time to raise two. I recommend doing almost everything separately including walks/exercise and feeding, and obviously training. Fortunately, I don't work outside the home. I'm expecting a lot of work. My adult daughter will take one if it becomes too much to handle.
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Jul 1, 2014 19:29
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Dust Radio posted:Fortunately, I don't work outside the home. I'm expecting a lot of work. My adult daughter will take one if it becomes too much to handle.  PI has seen people with no experience get large breed littermates, and of course it all goes south. Didn't you recently get an adult GSD? What happened with Delco?Here is some info and things I did. I got my dogs in fall, and thus we were bombproofing housetraining (with no yard...) in the northern Canadian winter with temps down to -40C/-40F for up to a week at a time. Going out for housetraining walks was always a joint venture. Keep them separated as much as possible. Puppy playtime is great and wears them out, but spending lots of time together imo will strengthen littermate syndrome. When they were young, up to about a year, the female Delta was undisputed Boss Puppy. She was a little bit larger and more boistrous. She would do things like take a toy from her brother Sigma and lay on top of some other toys like a little furry dragon, baring her teeth at him if he came near. From about a year onward there was a shift towards more balance, and now Sigma is the more "dominant" dog in that he will "voice his opinion" louder and stronger. Delta is not a weak dog and will stand up to him, it just seems like she often doesn't "care" enough to do so. (sarcasm quotes to indicate I know dominance and voicing opinion is people speak.) We had his and hers dogs, by that I mean myself and my husband each sort of chose a dog to focus on. I didn't train Sigma much, I focused that energy on Delta because she is "mine." Walks, as pups and for at least the first year they were walked or otherwise exercised every 2 hours, maybe every 3 when it was really cold, when we were home. I was able to come home at lunch so they did go up to 4 hrs at a time kenneled separately, but we kept them tuckered out. If you have kids, you cannot rely on them to do this.
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Jul 1, 2014 19:49
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Yeah, what happened to Delco? Is he still around? If not, where is he?
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Jul 1, 2014 19:54
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wtftastic posted:Yeah, what happened to Delco? Is he still around? If not, where is he? I took PI's advice to get rid of all compulsive training methods and worked with a veterinary behaviorist at MSU. We set up a training/counterconditioning plan and he was started on Prozac. It was suspected that Delco was genetically predisposed to anxious and fearful behavior, and based on her observations and his reactions to treatment and medication, it was recommended that he be euthanized. It loving sucked and I miss him like hell.
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Jul 1, 2014 20:02
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Dust Radio posted:I took PI's advice to get rid of all compulsive training methods and worked with a veterinary behaviorist at MSU. We set up a training/counterconditioning plan and he was started on Prozac. It was suspected that Delco was genetically predisposed to anxious and fearful behavior, and based on her observations and his reactions to treatment and medication, it was recommended that he be euthanized. Aww poor guy  And poor you. I can't imagine how hard it would be to accept that as the next step, and to follow through. I really respect that you did it for Delco. If he was so bad a vet beh. recommended it, it doesn't sound like he would have had a very happy life.
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Jul 1, 2014 20:19
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adventure in the sandbox posted:Aww poor guy Yeah, if the vet behaviorist recommended it, it probably was the right thing to do.
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Jul 1, 2014 20:25
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It might have been the hardest thing I've ever done. I keep expecting to get over it but it still gets to me.
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Jul 1, 2014 20:40
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Yikes, that sucks. Kudos to you for trying to find out what would be best for him. Not a lot of people would go that far. I think that was probably the kinder option than to let him continue living in anxiety. Unfortunately GSDs are just so overbred these days it's not uncommon for them to have issues like that. As other people have said, try to keep them separate - separate walks, training, etc. It's double the work unfortunately, but that's your best bet to avoid/lessen littermate syndrome. Keep us updated (PI loves Dutchies, even if they're little monsters).
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Jul 1, 2014 21:42
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So... please tell me they at least look like mixes rather than full Dutchies? 
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Jul 1, 2014 22:08
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I can't help with identifying their breed, but we have the same behaviorist. If she suggested euthanasia, then what you did really was the best choice for your dog. I'm sorry you had to make that decision, but props for following through on her advice.
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Jul 2, 2014 02:08
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Wheats posted:I can't help with identifying their breed, but we have the same behaviorist. If she suggested euthanasia, then what you did really was the best choice for your dog. I'm sorry you had to make that decision, but props for following through on her advice. Isn't she awesome? She even gave us her personal cellphone number. And she's checked up on us twice since to see how we are holding up. The only thing that makes me feel even a little okay about letting Delco go was that both she and our regular vet told us that we had done everything we could have done for him. I'm really glad she was recommended to us by our vet.
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Jul 2, 2014 13:34
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I don't think I said, feeding should of course be separate but I recommend out of sight. There was a time when only Sigma would eat, even if the bowls were across the room or even out of line of sight. Delta would wait until he finished. I fixed that, and now they can both eat simultaneously, within line of sight.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:59
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adventure in the sandbox posted:I don't think I said, feeding should of course be separate but I recommend out of sight. There was a time when only Sigma would eat, even if the bowls were across the room or even out of line of sight. Delta would wait until he finished. I fixed that, and now they can both eat simultaneously, within line of sight. Before I learned that they should eat separate, they'd been eating out of the same bowl. I started separate feeding a few days ago, and they just both ate from one bowl until it was empty, then both moved on to finish the second bowl. Today I was able to get them to eat separately, but only if they were both in the kitchen. When my crate bowls get here, I'm going to have them eat in their crates.
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Jul 4, 2014 01:08
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Dust Radio posted:Before I learned that they should eat separate, they'd been eating out of the same bowl. I started separate feeding a few days ago, and they just both ate from one bowl until it was empty, then both moved on to finish the second bowl. I honestly don't know if its super important, but I did it because it made sense to me Mine ate from the same bowl when they were small, but then Delta started to get all bossy and I said "nope!" and from then on they had their own eating places. They trade, I'm ok with that because they don't fight they just calmly swap places.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:56
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Oh, man; they've started colluding and scheming already. While I was putting away groceries, they combined forces to steal a five pound bag of potatoes. When my husband took away a kid's stuffed animal from the boy pup, he put it up on a high table and watched as the pup carefully surveyed the situation, then dragged over and stacked a few couch pillows to climb up as a way to reach it. Husband: "I didn't mean to bring home dogs smarter than our children. Please don't kill me."
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Jul 5, 2014 19:42
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Dust Radio posted:Oh, man; they've started colluding and scheming already. While I was putting away groceries, they combined forces to steal a five pound bag of potatoes. You're doomed, sad to say. You will be the pets soon.
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Jul 7, 2014 14:11
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Wait, wait. Turbo isn't a DSD; she's obviously a Coastal Michigan Sand Dog. I'm saved.
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Jul 7, 2014 19:43
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| # ? May 20, 2024 00:05 |
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Dust Radio posted:Wait, wait. Turbo isn't a DSD; she's obviously a Coastal Michigan Sand Dog. I'm saved. I'm also sorry to inform you that you own an Aardwolf.
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Jul 8, 2014 04:44
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