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So I suppose a bit of background: I met my wife a little over 3 years ago and we got married last October. She grew up on a farm around dogs and I grew up in the city having never owned a dog. We currently are in a dog-friendly apartment building (we have a 4 year old cat who did spend his kitten years with a border collie) and are in the process of buying a house. My wife has been hounding me (no pun intended) to get a dog for awhile but I've been hesitant just due to our work schedule and arrangements. The work schedule has slowed down dramatically and I now feel we have the availability and resources to be able to adequately care for a dog. Having grown up in northern Canada she really wanted a Husky but I was not keen having done some research and seeing that they are really high strung, very demanding and prone to separation anxiety due to being pack animals. After discussing it at length, we agreed that a good breed for us and our future life would be a Border Collie. We are both quite active and we wanted a breed that is intelligent, would fit an active lifestyle, and would be well behaved around people and children. I am still quite hesitant about getting a dog but my wife is very supportive of my concerns about making sure the dog receives plenty of attention and exercise and training. I intend to put the pup into training right away. Crate training for sure, and obedience training as time goes on. We have agreed that we will not get a puppy until the summer when we can take 3+ weeks off each back to back to ensure we have a solid 6-8 weeks to be home during the first couple months of ownership. We have a long time before we will take on a pup but I'm doing the leg work now so I can be sure we're making the right choice. I suppose I'm a little uptight in that I want an ethical breeder that has pups with a strong lineage. I've done some preliminary searching but all I seem to find is geoshitties sites that are obviously puppy farms. What do I need to be looking for? More to the point, what else should me and my wife be discussing and be prepared for venturing into this? I'm about as careful as they come and I feel we're ready but what else aside from what I've listed above should we be looking at? Is there anything else with a Border Collie breed that we should be aware of?
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Dec 28, 2014 12:38
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SiliconX posted:Having grown up in northern Canada she really wanted a Husky but I was not keen having done some research and seeing that they are really high strung, very demanding and prone to separation anxiety due to being pack animals. After discussing it at length, we agreed that a good breed for us and our future life would be a Border Collie. We are both quite active and we wanted a breed that is intelligent, would fit an active lifestyle, and would be well behaved around people and children. "really high strung, very demanding and prone to separation anxiety" are all things I'd associate with under exercised, under worked Border Collies... They're nippy and will herd anything if under stimulated too so I'm not sure "good with children" is a default collie trait... maybe American lines differed greatly in temperament and needs to the farm dogs and sheep herding dogs we get in 'round here but I have seen precisely one Border Collie out of dozens I would want to own; she's twelve, owned by a dog trainer who does agility and Rally-O with her and she thinks she's a Labrador. The most food motivated dog I have ever seen. Don't get me wrong, Border Collies are gorgeous dogs and I can see the appeal for someone who wants to do dog sports or trials but they're not the first I'd think of if the list of traits you used to decide against a Husky was a deal breaker. Then again, my first dog was a loving Shikoku so don't listen to me.
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Dec 28, 2014 14:45
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If you're still open to breed suggestions, I would recommend checking out Australian Shepherds. In general, they are much better family dogs than border collies tend to be, while still smart and active. If you're set on a border collie, consider going the adult rescue or rehoming route to get one that's known to be good around children. My border collie is a great dog, but it was clearly listed when I adopted her that she could only go to a no kids household - she is intense, drivey as hell, and none too precise with her teeth when she's into a game of tug. When my 8-year-old nephew visited for a week, we had to manage them very carefully to keep her from getting wound up. As to where to get a border collie, the border collie boards are a good resource. Best advice if you want to go with a pup is to find someone who's breeding for ISDS-style stockwork. These folks probably won't have much of a web presence, you'll have to go to a trial and ask around.
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Dec 28, 2014 16:53
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Thanks for the advice guys, I didn't realize Border Collies were that demanding. I consider us active but now I'm not really sure we're that active. We are still open to breed suggestions and I do like the Australian Shepard. We'll definitely look into it.
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Dec 29, 2014 18:33
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Well, if we're living vicariously through you with breed suggestions! If I was after a high energy, relatively biddable dog that was good with kids I would probably look into Vizslas, Pointers (English or German Short Haired), Retrievers (Labrador, Golden, probably the rest of them too, idk) and Spaniels (Field-bred, English Cockers and Springers). Maybe a Samoyed if you wanted to compromise on the Husky suggestion. I think Rough Collies are way more mellow than BCs too. Can't remember meeting many Rough Collies though so would take that last one with a grain of salt and not sure on the energy levels. All the Aussie's I've met were owned by dog sport competitors. Have you been to any dog sport events or classes to see if you'd be into that sort of thing if you did get a BC or Aussie? You'd probably be able to get some recommendations for some good breeders from the competitors and spectators too. Re; breeders, I'd want to see hips and elbow scores, I think several of them have eye problems that the parents can be tested for, genetic testing may be appropriate too. I'd probably look for a breeder that was doing stuff with their dogs too, whether it was field trials, a dog sport, obedience etc. I'm not a big fan of how some of the show versions of those dogs look compared to the field-bred ones but some people consider showing 'em to be a positive thing or at least better than nothing. You may want the breeder to be able to answer questions such as "why did you breed Xdog to Ydog/what were you hoping to achieve/improve with that match?", "do you offer health guarantees", "will you take the dog back at any point in its life if I can no longer care for it?", "do you socialise and train the pups before they go to their new homes, and if so, how?", number of litters per year and if you weren't recommended by one of your new buddies from the dog sport world maybe see if they can hook you up with a past puppy buyer to meet one of their previous puppies. Edit: Actually, check out the Puppy and New Dog thread, that has a load of pre-dog advice. Edit 2: Also, having too much time between deciding to get a dog and getting dog is why I now have a loving ridiculous breed. You can do too much research. Ponyfields fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Dec 29, 2014 |
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Dec 29, 2014 22:25
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SiliconX posted:Thanks for the advice guys, I didn't realize Border Collies were that demanding. I consider us active but now I'm not really sure we're that active. We are still open to breed suggestions and I do like the Australian Shepard. We'll definitely look into it. Border Collies are one of the most demanding breeds, hands-down. If you do opt to go for a border collie, I'd spend some time poking around these boards: http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index There's a big split within the breed between working, sport and show. There are people who believe that BCs became the dogs we know and love solely because of their ability to herd, so they should only be bred from accomplished herding parents. Then there are those who feel that sport is a sufficient job for BCs -- they tend to create insanely fast, biddable, sensitive, high-strung dogs. Finally you have the show people who feel that they can honor the history of the breed while breeding towards a physical breed ideal (which I kind of think is dumb). Then I guess you have people who breed BCs for pets and don't really do anything with their dogs and aren't active within the breed community. I think that the working purists have some good points, but I also love the sports-bred dogs. I know plenty of show-bred BCs that are cool, fun dogs that generally are a bit less intense than others, but if you go that route you'll probably have a few breed people guffaw at your decision. They don't tend to be great with kids, but there are exceptions. If you're not dumb about it, you can have a household with both with a bit of work. Aussies aren't exactly easy either. Some are. Some may as well be crazy BCs. I find that they're a bit more stable, temperamentally, than BCs on average. They're still a breed that is close to its working roots and shouldn't be entered into lightly. You can find some pretty mellow, cool Aussies, but there are plenty of the insane, reactive, barky ones around too (like mine!). Do your homework. Research breeders in your area. Get a feel for the temperament of the mature dogs. Be upfront with the breeder about what you're looking for (stable, calm(?), etc.) and try not to work with someone who you suspect will foist their pups off on anyone. If you get serious about the breed, PM me and I can try to point you in the right direction. For both BCs and Aussies you'll want eye clearances via CERF, Penn-Hip or OFA scores in the parents to try to avoid hip dysplasia, you'll want to know if there's epilepsy in any of the lines, reactivity, cancer, etc. Probably more, but I'm running out of time so I'm gonna just post this. E: I see that the BC board has been linked already. Beaten!
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Dec 29, 2014 22:48
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a life less posted:Aussies aren't exactly easy either. Some are. Some may as well be crazy BCs. I find that they're a bit more stable, temperamentally, than BCs on average. They're still a breed that is close to its working roots and shouldn't be entered into lightly. You can find some pretty mellow, cool Aussies, but there are plenty of the insane, reactive, barky ones around too (like mine!). Do your homework. Research breeders in your area. Get a feel for the temperament of the mature dogs. Be upfront with the breeder about what you're looking for (stable, calm(?), etc.) and try not to work with someone who you suspect will foist their pups off on anyone. If you get serious about the breed, PM me and I can try to point you in the right direction. My general impression of Aussies versus Border Collies (largely agility dogs) is that Aussies have a sense of humor, even when they are as crazy on-course as a border collie - in general they're a lot less sensitive and less serious. I see some reactive aussies, but not nearly as often as with border collies or corgis. If you really value a dog with a sense of humor, get a Samoyed. They may not be the most biddable dog, but every one I've met has been a huge clown - more pranksterish than goofy.
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Dec 30, 2014 00:46
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I forget that Aussies are supposed to have a sense of humor because mine doesn't.
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Dec 30, 2014 01:04
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a life less posted:I forget that Aussies are supposed to have a sense of humor because mine doesn't. My border collie is too dumb to not have a sense of humour.  Kalli by straygiraffe, on Flickr I think (and this is prob gonna be an unpopular opinion) that people overexaggerate the perils of a BC. They're active dogs, sure - but as long as you engage their bodies/minds they aren't nightmarish, though they can be. PI tends to exaggerate the bad and forget the good when it comes to high energy dogs. If you want a BC and have 1.5-2hrs a day to spend exercising a dog, go for it. this isn't just because mine is broken either, I know tons of people with (working bred!) border collies who have no real trouble with them.
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Dec 30, 2014 21:00
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Fraction posted:I think (and this is prob gonna be an unpopular opinion) that people overexaggerate the perils of a BC. They're active dogs, sure - but as long as you engage their bodies/minds they aren't nightmarish, though they can be. PI tends to exaggerate the bad and forget the good when it comes to high energy dogs. If you want a BC and have 1.5-2hrs a day to spend exercising a dog, go for it. I agree with you for the most part on the exaggeration of activity levels, but I still wouldn't recommend a border collie for someone who wants a dog that'll be good with kids. It's not the activity level but the sensitivity and single-minded focus that makes most of them a bad fit to life with kids. My dog has a good off-switch in a quiet house, but she doesn't settle well when there's unpredictable activity (like a kid suddenly running through the halls). The one person I know with a young child and a border collie did a lot of work with her dog before her son's birth, is committed to giving the dog a good amount of kid-free time, and has several other dogs who are great with kids to keep social pressure off of him.
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Dec 30, 2014 22:48
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