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Basebf555 posted:To students and potential students of the future. When you go to a college the message should be "learn everything you can about every subject you possibly can". Is the book censored? Smoothrich posted:To those who would disagree? Like fans of American Sniper or military vets in general aren't welcome on the campus cuz they are prejudged as bigots. That's not censorship.
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Apr 10, 2015 16:45
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Is the book censored? The movie and book are nothing alike.
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Apr 10, 2015 16:48
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Panzeh posted:The movie and book are nothing alike. They are pretty alike.
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Apr 10, 2015 16:51
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Panzeh posted:The movie and book are nothing alike. I'm just following the absurd argument to its conclusion. If a university refused to show Pearl Harbor on the anniversary of because they thought it was in bad taste, or whatever, that's not censorship. You'd have to make some mighty strides to suggest that not showing a Hollywood film in a public space is somehow repressive.
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Apr 10, 2015 16:51
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Is the book censored? I'm not saying any of this is censorship, its just not the way I'd prefer universities to operate. I agree with you that cancelling a screening isn't really censorship. To be honest though I'm not really sure what you're asking.
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Apr 10, 2015 16:51
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Basebf555 posted:To be honest though I'm not really sure what you're asking. I'm asking why feigned victimhood is a good strategy.
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Apr 10, 2015 16:52
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If a university was going to show Birth of a Nation, would it be right or wrong for them to pull the film because of the protests that the film is racist?
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Apr 10, 2015 17:50
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Armyman25 posted:If a university was going to show Birth of a Nation, would it be right or wrong for them to pull the film because of the protests that the film is racist? It'd be more complicated than simply right or wrong.
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Apr 10, 2015 18:03
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Armyman25 posted:If a university was going to show Birth of a Nation, would it be right or wrong for them to pull the film because of the protests that the film is racist? If I were running a private theatre I would choose not to show Birth of a Nation. But since we're talking about a university that changes the whole issue for me.
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Apr 10, 2015 18:16
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Mr. Flunchy posted:They are pretty alike. The kind of bullshit in the book is crazy while the kind of bullshit in the movie is banal.
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Apr 10, 2015 18:29
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Armyman25 posted:If a university was going to show Birth of a Nation, would it be right or wrong for them to pull the film because of the protests that the film is racist? That's still not censorship in any meaningful way. If the school decided to remove all copies of the film from the library and then censure or suspend anyone who brought it up or made reference to it, that would be suppression or a ban or censorship. Canceling a screening is not.
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Apr 10, 2015 19:14
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Mr. Flunchy posted:They are pretty alike. In that they're both works of fiction?
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Apr 11, 2015 05:14
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:That's still not censorship in any meaningful way. If the school decided to remove all copies of the film from the library and then censure or suspend anyone who brought it up or made reference to it, that would be suppression or a ban or censorship. Canceling a screening is not. I never said anything about censorship.
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Apr 11, 2015 08:53
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:That's still not censorship in any meaningful way. If the school decided to remove all copies of the film from the library and then censure or suspend anyone who brought it up or made reference to it, that would be suppression or a ban or censorship. Canceling a screening is not. I agree that it's not censorship. I do however think that it teaches people that you don't have to confront potentially troubling art because if you talk loud enough then it'll get surpressed. It's like, as gross as it is I think Birth Of A Nation is an important movie to both view and discuss. Not just for the place in cinema but in a broader context about America in general at the time. I don't think American Sniper is anywhere at all on the same level as that, but the lesson still applies. It just seems like this day people prefer to say 'This might trouble me therefore I don't want to see it' and then move on.
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Apr 11, 2015 12:18
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DrVenkman posted:I don't think American Sniper is anywhere at all on the same level as that, but the lesson still applies. It just seems like this day people prefer to say 'This might trouble me therefore I don't want to see it' and then move on. That's not a "these days" thing.
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Apr 11, 2015 15:27
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DrVenkman posted:I agree that it's not censorship. I do however think that it teaches people that you don't have to confront potentially troubling art because if you talk loud enough then it'll get surpressed. It was the Muslim students who didn't want the movie to be shown, as well as their friends, as they don't want people to hate and threaten them more than they already experience. And they decided to show the movie anyways because people outside the college complained. Their compromise was that they would also show the Paddington Bear movie.
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Apr 11, 2015 16:36
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Armyman25 posted:I never said anything about censorship. What difference does it make if it's right or wrong? It's their prerogative, and it happens all the times at institutions of every stripe. If you want to make the argument that it's unconstitutional or abridges someone's freedoms in some way, I'd like to hear that argument. Otherwise, give me a break with the chilling effect stuff.
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Apr 11, 2015 17:57
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:What difference does it make if it's right or wrong? It's their prerogative, and it happens all the times at institutions of every stripe. If you want to make the argument that it's unconstitutional or abridges someone's freedoms in some way, I'd like to hear that argument. Otherwise, give me a break with the chilling effect stuff. Why should I give you a break? Universities are supposed to be places where discussion and learning take place. Like it or not this movie has generated a lot of controversy and discussion. If showing it generates more discussion, that is a good thing, unless you think that discussing cinema isn't a worthwhile pursuit.
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Apr 11, 2015 19:37
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Armyman25 posted:Why should I give you a break? Universities are supposed to be places where discussion and learning take place. Like it or not this movie has generated a lot of controversy and discussion. If showing it generates more discussion, that is a good thing, unless you think that discussing cinema isn't a worthwhile pursuit. That's real Pollyanna. The controversy is specifically that the film was being shown as part of a "neutral" social activity, i.e., not particularly related to discussion or learning. A Muslim student group protested, expressing the opinion that the film is propagandistic, which led to counterprotests by college Republicans (and I'm not saying that as a pejorative, they make fun of themselves pretty well with the ridiculous nonsense names they choose): quote:"The movie 'American Sniper' not only tolerates but promotes anti-Muslim ... rhetoric and sympathizes with a mass killer," said the original petition opposing its showing. It was started by student Lamees Mekkaoui. "Chris Kyle was a racist who took a disturbing stance on murdering Iraqi citizens." The university has since reinstated the film, but as I'm saying, the false victimhood is really fun to read. quote:"While we may disagree about the motives and politics of the Iraq War, the movie shows the sacrifice that Chris Kyle made, like so many of his fellow servicemen and women who put themselves in harm's way to protect our country, including numerous University of Michigan alumni," the petition, created by law student Rachel Jankowski, said. Interesting that this is devoid of reflection, discussion or consideration. quote:"If the University prevents a movie like this from being shown, it promotes intolerance and stifles dialogue and debate on the subject and goes directly against the atmosphere UM purports to provide." While the university may take the line that canceling this screening indeed contradicts the aims of a public institution, what do we see instead of open discussion? We see the generic term used to bludgeon. The "controversy" is Freep-stuff, especially when the response to the protest is "shut up".
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Apr 11, 2015 21:24
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