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Ddraig posted:This has changed. You don't really need the 'middle man' to be your foot in the door. If you've got talent, you can put yourself out there, and build up a following that way. You will also completely get to dictate the terms of your releases, and all of the money you make goes entirely to you. Ddraig posted:What Bethesda and Valve tried to do was to make themselves into the 'big record labels' of modding, but without the actual responsibilities that came with it. They wanted the perks of being able to coast off the success of someone else's work but not take on the responsibilities of creative control, standards of quality/professionalism or even promotion, all the while taking a cut that would be comparable to the cuts other industries would take. It's a very, very loving bad deal for modders. If we're still going down the music analogy, it would be the equivalent if Solomon Linda selling the rights of Mbube for 10 shillings.
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Apr 30, 2015 19:09
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Lucid Dream posted:If I buy a game on Steam and I have trouble downloading the game, that is Valve's responsibility, but if the game crashes on launch that is up to the publisher. Actually Valve and the publisher will blame each-other in a circle and generally won't do poo poo unless the problem is very widespread.
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Apr 30, 2015 19:17
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univbee posted:Actually Valve and the publisher will blame each-other in a circle and generally won't do poo poo unless the problem is very widespread. The publisher might be poo poo and try and blame Valve for their own problems, but Valve is only going to support the platform not the games.
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Apr 30, 2015 19:19
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Lucid Dream posted:You get to dicate the terms of your releases if you are creating the music from scratch. Suppose a musician made a remix of a popular song, contacted the original artist and got permission to sell the remix. Wouldn't it make sense that the original artist in that situation would be entitled to a significant portion of the revenue from the remix? This often happens. It's particularly prevalent in rap music, where artists looking to break through or even artists that are already pretty well established will use other people's beats to make their own songs for mixtapes. These were usually distributed through tapes etc but again the internet has already changed that and several of them have been released for free, using other people's beats with new lyrics over it and surprisingly enough this is usually encouraged by the people who made the original because it gives them greater exposure. Likewise for the person who made the new version. Of course these are usually not sold (at least not by the person who made them, you may get people charging x amount for the actual copy) because it would be stupid and dumb and counter-productive to everything they're trying to do. The biggest example I can think of at the moment (because I am old and out of touch) is Chamillionaire with his Mixtape Messiah series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aahz1xxDA1c Original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAKxjTRV6ms I'm pretty sure Nas didn't go into full on 'You must pay me and everyone else who was ever involved with this" because hey, his music was getting greater exposure.
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Apr 30, 2015 19:32
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Lucid Dream posted:The publisher might be poo poo and try and blame Valve for their own problems, but Valve is only going to support the platform not the games. Whose fault is it when the product key Steam issues you doesn't work? Because neither party will own up to it if that happens (and it does). univbee fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Apr 30, 2015 |
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Apr 30, 2015 19:34
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Ddraig posted:Of course these are usually not sold (at least not by the person who made them, you may get people charging x amount for the actual copy) because it would be stupid and dumb and counter-productive to everything they're trying to do. univbee posted:Whose fault is it when the product key Steam issues you doesn't work? Because neither party will own up to it if that happens (and it does).
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Apr 30, 2015 19:41
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univbee posted:Whose fault is it when the product key Steam issues you doesn't work? Because neither party will own up to it if that happens (and it does). Sure it does buddy
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Apr 30, 2015 19:43
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Lucid Dream posted:but I imagine Valve just gets a list of keys from the publisher so if those keys provided by the publisher don't work there isn't a whole lot Valve can do about it. Well that's sort of my point, I'm pretty sure you're right but then no one's accountable, the publisher just shrugs and says "have you tried reinstalling?" and you're left without your SteamBux you paid for with RealBux.
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Apr 30, 2015 19:50
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univbee posted:Well that's sort of my point, I'm pretty sure you're right but then no one's accountable, the publisher just shrugs and says "have you tried reinstalling?" and you're left without your SteamBux you paid for with RealBux.
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Apr 30, 2015 19:56
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It's an even murkier thing with game mods because typically you have to actually, you know, buy the game to mod it in the first place. As far as I'm aware, very few (if any) developers give away the core engine of the game to let people do what they want with it. The only developer I know of who did this was GSC. Just before they were closed down they posted a huge series' of torrents on rutracker containing all previous builds of Shadow of Chernobyl that still existed, aswell as the original development material for SoC, in addition to providing DRM free versions of the original engines with the wink wink nudge nudge suggestion that people use them in the future. Recently they even released the drat source code for all three games to people who are now using it to make "Open X-Ray", a DRM free version of the X-Ray engine for people to make things with in the future.
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Apr 30, 2015 19:59
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Lucid Dream posted:I think its clear that many people like to mod for the fun of it, you won't see me arguing against that. Musicians enjoy playing music and many of them put their music out for free, but that doesn't mean they inherently shouldn't be able to do it for profit just because they enjoy the process. If you want to make mods for profit, no one prevents you from contacting any gaming company and obtaining their permission. Most people probably wouldn't bat an eye if a group of prospective modders contacted Valve and Bethesda with a proposition to make paid mods for them and share the profit. This is not what happened. Communities have their values and rules by which they abide. Many of them will absolutely be pissed at you if you tried to use them to turn a profit. Join a Protestant church and try to charge people for absolutions. Or, if you want a better analogy, join a charity and try to use its infrastructure to make a quick buck for yourself. In both cases, many people will be outraged, because they feel that trying to make money is completely incompatible with their values. You may argue that you, as everybody else, need money to live. It's true - still, you chose to join a group whose internal rules are incompatible with that. You're free to earn it somewhere else. The modding scene existed since at least 20 years and always relied on modifying an existing game and sharing the results for free. It was one of the main reasons why it kept existing through these years, relatively independent from developers. Introducing a for-profit motive would be very disruptive simply because the community was organized with the assumption there's none. Changing an established society is not easy and requires a lot of tact. Valve instead just announced their new rules and appointed their aristocracy. It very quickly became apparent that, while Valve and Bethesda don't forbid anyone making free content, they consider it a fair game for Serious People Doing Serious Business. Disparaging comments from captains of industry towards people who objected didn't help. It still could work, mind you, but neither the entrepreneur modders, not both corporations could show even a modicum of restraint and sacrificed building trust for a quick buck. No one wants to prohibit you from earning cash on modding. Even less people want to make you do something for free. Just an idea, though - don't join an established community where one of the main rules is that you don't charge money, then suddenly announce "I'm a modder and I deserve to be paid". Build one from the scratch, convince people to your ideas and some will probably come. Edit: Using even simpler analogy: you're an obnoxious type who came to a Buddhist assembly and asks everyone if they considered embracing Jesus. Valve was a Christian guy who owns the ground and had an idea to shake up the community by inviting several ministers. Gantolandon fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Apr 30, 2015 |
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Apr 30, 2015 20:04
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Gantolandon posted:If you want to make mods for profit, no one prevents you from contacting any gaming company and obtaining their permission. Most people probably wouldn't bat an eye if a group of prospective modders contacted Valve and Bethesda with a proposition to make paid mods for them and share the profit. This is not what happened. Gantolandon posted:Communities have their values and rules by which they abide. Many of them will absolutely be pissed at you if you tried to use them to turn a profit. Join a Protestant church and try to charge people for absolutions. Or, if you want a better analogy, join a charity and try to use its infrastructure to make a quick buck for yourself. In both cases, many people will be outraged, because they feel that trying to make money is completely incompatible with their values. You may argue that you, as everybody else, need money to live. It's true - still, you chose to join a group whose internal rules are incompatible with that. You're free to earn it somewhere else.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:10
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Lucid Dream posted:So its ok if the modders contact Bethesda and ask if they can make profit, but not if Bethesda contacts modders and asks if they want to make profit? I'm not seeing how that makes much of a difference. It would definitely look better, given the power difference between an average modder and a corporation. But not neccessarily, even if they tried to make a site for paid mods only and introduced some standards (including "no freeloading on the unofficial community"), it could have worked.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:15
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