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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Aren't you attacking someone's credibility based on their beliefs in something stupid, then using actual nazi propaganda words like the "holodomor" Please, explain how the Holodomor, a real historical famine-genocide, is nazi propaganda. 
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Sep 9, 2019 06:05
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Pharohman777 posted:Please, explain how the Holodomor, a real historical famine-genocide, is nazi propaganda. The genocide label might be inaccurate because as I recall there's legitimate debate about the degree to which starvation was the intention, but even if it wasn't the outcome sought the authorities at least showed gross negligence, and probably reckless indifference, so I'm also curious how it can be written off as fascist propaganda.
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Sep 9, 2019 06:54
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Neurosis posted:The genocide label might be inaccurate because as I recall there's legitimate debate about the degree to which starvation was the intention, but even if it wasn't the outcome sought the authorities at least showed gross negligence, and probably reckless indifference, so I'm also curious how it can be written off as fascist propaganda. I mean the word itself. Not denying there was a famine which was exacerbated by mismanagement. Holodomor is, as far as I can tell, a word chosen by Ukrainian nationalists to try to conflate it with the holocaust to make USSR sound worse/Germany not as bad. Hell, one of the earlier people pushing the term wrote a long-form attack on Jewish people for not being anti communist enough. None of this has much to do with Venezuela though,and the Maduro regimes ability to gently caress up in new and unexpected ways.
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Sep 9, 2019 07:38
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There are people who will either overlook or support atrocities on an ideological basis, which can range from solidarity to bloodlust to a weird ends justifying the means deal (often with arguable ends). It can be a useful barometer to check somebody's opinions on other atrocities when they're all squirelly about one set of things. IE, some people who try to dismiss Maduro's wrongdoing and also spend a lot of time poo poo-talking all opposition may be arguing in bad faith.
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Sep 9, 2019 08:38
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Pharohman777 posted:Please, explain how the Holodomor, a real historical famine-genocide, is nazi propaganda. the kind of word twisting on display here is why any discussion with these kinds of people is futile the post he quoted is perfectly clear but he still had to lie about it in his "summary" there's nothing productive to be gained through talking with him
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Sep 9, 2019 09:56
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The ghost of Walter Duranty has entered the thread.
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Sep 9, 2019 09:58
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I mean the word itself. Not denying there was a famine which was exacerbated by mismanagement. Holodomor is, as far as I can tell, a word chosen by Ukrainian nationalists to try to conflate it with the holocaust to make USSR sound worse/Germany not as bad. Hell, one of the earlier people pushing the term wrote a long-form attack on Jewish people for not being anti communist enough. Looking at Wikipedia, it looks like the use of the word antedates the Holocaust, being used in Ukrainian diaspora publications - it literally translates to 'death by hunger' or 'killing by hunger/starvation', so I'm not sure it's fair to think it's more than the word that has caught on to refer to the event, although, sure, the phonetic similarity might be one reason it caught on (The source Wikipedia quotes is Anne Applebaum, Red Famine: Stalin's War on Ukraine (Doubleday, 2017) 363, if anyone's deathly interested in fact-checking.)
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Sep 9, 2019 12:32
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I linked a thread where he did it earlier, too.
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Sep 9, 2019 16:45
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Sep 9, 2019 18:08
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