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The main source of all division in human history is capitalism. Material desire ergo capitalism - in its most base form, led to the development of slavery, racism, and nationalism. Every war from the beginning of mankind originates from capitalism. Capitalism therefore may be understood to go hand in hand with what is ultimately human nature. The desire to get rid of any of these things therefore is a desire that exceeds human nature that goes beyond the natural to the concept of the supernatural. This division just like capitalism is ultimately destructive. The only hope for mankind then remains in unity, beyond all else. Capitalism functions as the source for all anger in the world, anger which creates destruction and death via the capitalistic cycle of violence. Where the concepts of revenge become of the utmost importance. The cycle is continuous; a eternal destructive spiral in which one attack most often inspired due to materialistic desire is responded with a vengeful even stronger attack which is then responded with a even stronger one resulting in a continuous spiral of revenge, murder, and death. This cycle of violence is observable in conflicts such as the Palestinian/Jewish conflict and one of the main drivers of current terrorism against western nations, from attackers in the middle east. But this cycle of violence and anger is unnatural and unhealthy. It is one of the most destructive forces in all of humanity. Similarly violence when it comes to class conflict and struggle leads to conflict and division that originates from within capitalism itself. The only true way to bring an end to capitalism is through unity and seeking unity with one another regardless of class, race, or any other factor. This is why all other class struggle and racial conflict is destined to fail.
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Nov 16, 2015 08:59
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CuckEverlasting posted:The main source of all division in human history is capitalism. Uh, capitalism has existed for a couple hundred years of human history? I think there's been division for a lot longer than that. "Capitalism" is not synonymous with "greed", and it was considered an improvement over previous systems like mercantilism even by Marx! 
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Nov 16, 2015 12:41
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eSports Chaebol posted:Uh, capitalism has existed for a couple hundred years of human history? I think there's been division for a lot longer than that. "Capitalism" is not synonymous with "greed", and it was considered an improvement over previous systems like mercantilism even by Marx! I'm guessing this definition of capitalism is "any form of trade, ever", which is a rare but not new definition.
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Nov 16, 2015 13:28
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eSports Chaebol posted:Uh, capitalism has existed for a couple hundred years of human history? I think there's been division for a lot longer than that. "Capitalism" is not synonymous with "greed", and it was considered an improvement over previous systems like mercantilism even by Marx! Marx didn't consider merchantilism a stage. Learn your historical materialism.  Also I think one of the worst things a lot of socialist parties did pre-2000 is to take the attitude of "Only class matters, stop worrying about racism, sexism, etc because once we sort out the economic superstructure of society those things will take care of themselves". It's not a very appealing sell.
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Nov 16, 2015 13:50
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team overhead smash posted:Marx didn't consider merchantilism a stage. Learn your historical materialism. And now some on the right are minimising racial issues by saying "It's not race, it's class!" lol.
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Nov 16, 2015 13:51
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Starshark posted:And now some on the right are minimising racial issues by saying "It's not race, it's class!" lol. Listen, just because I was complaining about the welfare queen and her speech and her physical appearance doesn't mean she wasn't white! RACIST.
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Nov 16, 2015 14:34
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I think the responses here demonstrates the dividing power of capitalism and you guys aren't even aware of it. Racial equality is extremely important. But very little progress has been made on that front in the past 30 years. In fact I would say we have regressed and become even more divided on the issue. The fact that we fought a war over racism almost ensures that racism will never die in America. In fact it is destined to get worse. Conflict begets conflict. Violence only creates more violence. This is the destiny of all capitalism.
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Nov 16, 2015 16:01
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Starshark posted:And now some on the right are minimising racial issues by saying "It's not race, it's class!" lol. That said, economics are an important background to racism. Modern racial categories were developed early in the European colonial period to justify slavery and resource extraction. Prior to that, people still clashed over religion and territory, but "racism" as we know it didn't exist. CuckEverlasting posted:Racial equality is extremely important. But very little progress has been made on that front in the past 30 years. In fact I would say we have regressed and become even more divided on the issue. You're speaking in very broad terms. How do you see the end of capitalism and the end of racism? In Burma, Laos, and Cambodia, communist and socialist governments took power after the French and British withdrew, but they didn't bring racial equality. Instead, the new governments banished and killed their minority citizens in the name of nationalism. Saeku fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Nov 16, 2015 |
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Nov 16, 2015 16:33
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CuckEverlasting posted:I think the responses here demonstrates the dividing power of capitalism and you guys aren't even aware of it. Sick troll, brah.
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Nov 16, 2015 23:06
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team overhead smash posted:Marx didn't consider merchantilism a stage. Learn your historical materialism. People who worry more about identity politics than about class tend to not be very appealing to anyone except each other. That is actually a good thing, though, since identity politics are a capitalist diversion.
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Nov 16, 2015 23:13
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Makes sense, I mean those communist states turned out really well, who wouldn't want to live in the USSR or pre-Deng China?
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Nov 16, 2015 23:20
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Saeku posted:You're speaking in very broad terms. How do you see the end of capitalism and the end of racism? In Burma, Laos, and Cambodia, communist and socialist governments took power after the French and British withdrew, but they didn't bring racial equality. Instead, the new governments banished and killed their minority citizens in the name of nationalism.
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Nov 16, 2015 23:30
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Only a Trot deals in absolutes. Capitalism is certainly problem-laden of course, but if we can get the division down to Springfield throwing eggs at Shelbyville I'd say we're doing alright.
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Nov 17, 2015 00:39
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Saeku posted:That said, economics are an important background to racism. Modern racial categories were developed early in the European colonial period to justify slavery and resource extraction. Prior to that, people still clashed over religion and territory, but "racism" as we know it didn't exist. "Communist" and "Socialist" governments are more often than not capitalistic in nature and rely on human desire and materialism to define all policies. Pretty much every single Communist state on earth has been a fascist state with state run capitalist systems at the core of their planned economies.
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Nov 17, 2015 00:52
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What would a system of social organization that isn't motivated by "human desire" look like, then? And why would that be desirable?
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Nov 17, 2015 01:07
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Capitalism is a historically contingent system that arose in the last 2 to 5 centuries of human history. It's nonsensical to try and claim all behavior motivated by material desire is "capitalism". Maoist Pussy posted:People who worry more about identity politics than about class tend to not be very appealing to anyone except each other. That is actually a good thing, though, since identity politics are a capitalist diversion. Identity politics were a reaction to the very real sexism and racism of the radical movements of the mid-20th century. People who make blanket dismissals of identity politics tend to belong to some Maoist or Trot reading club with like 10 white bearded dudes who probably lose any female members they accidentally acquire by having absolutely no policy for preventing or dealing with sexual harassment.
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Nov 17, 2015 01:43
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Helsing posted:Capitalism is a historically contingent system that arose in the last 2 to 5 centuries of human history. It's nonsensical to try and claim all behavior motivated by material desire is "capitalism". No it isn't. What developed in the last 2 to 5 centuries of human history was industrial capitalism. Capitalism has always existed.
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Nov 17, 2015 01:48
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Can I ask where you got that definition of capitalism from? Is it something you came up with yourself?
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Nov 17, 2015 01:53
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CuckEverlasting posted:No it isn't. What developed in the last 2 to 5 centuries of human history was industrial capitalism.
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Nov 17, 2015 02:04
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Nessus posted:Was it introduced into the Garden by the serpent, perhaps? Or are you saying that any time someone "buys" or "sells" something, that is exactly capitalism, superceding all other context? Yes.
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Nov 17, 2015 02:08
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Then capitalism cannot have always existed, because while there is some evidence of transactional exchanges among other primates, primates are relatively recent developments. Unless the exchange of materials inside of a cell itself is capitalism?
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Nov 17, 2015 02:15
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This is a dumb GBS reregs idea of how to troll D&D right? Please don't be a real thread, that would be too sad.
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Nov 17, 2015 02:16
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So all we gotta do to eliminate division is erase human nature? Sounds great OP, get right on it!
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Nov 17, 2015 03:15
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Capitalism and material desire are not even in the same category of things. You're demonstrating what a dumb reactionary/libertarian thinks leftism is, as opposed to what it actually is (it really is amazing how ignorant both libertarians/reac. are). It's possible you're sincere, but it's more likely that you're a dumb gently caress who couldn't lay troll bait if their life depended on it. 1/10.
rudatron fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 04:33
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rudatron posted:Capitalism and material desire are not even in the same category of things. You're demonstrating what a dumb reactionary/libertarian thinks leftism is, as opposed to what it actually is (it really is amazing how ignorant both libs/reac. are). It's possible you're sincere, but it's more likely that you're a dumb gently caress who couldn't lay troll bait if their life depended on it. 1/10. The love of money is the root of all evil.
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Nov 17, 2015 05:29
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CuckEverlasting posted:The love of money is the root of all evil. I didn't know humanity existed in a state of grace which was despoiled only by the invention of currency.
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Nov 17, 2015 05:38
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rudatron posted:Capitalism and material desire are not even in the same category of things. You're demonstrating what a dumb reactionary/libertarian thinks leftism is, as opposed to what it actually is (it really is amazing how ignorant both libertarians/reac. are). It's possible you're sincere, but it's more likely that you're a dumb gently caress who couldn't lay troll bait if their life depended on it. 1/10. What do you expect from someone called "CuckEverlasting"? OP, if you really feel so hopeless and nihilistic, just go live by yourself in a cave. You will be away from the troubles of the world and we will be away from your posting.
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Nov 17, 2015 05:57
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CuckEverlasting posted:The love of money is the root of all evil. Come on. What does the "capital" part of capitalism mean to you? Giant stacks of madd cash Scrooge style? If you want simple good vs. evil stories political economy will seriously disappoint you.
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Nov 17, 2015 06:16
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Woolie Wool posted:What do you expect from someone called "CuckEverlasting"? Why do you think I feel hopeless and nihilistic? The people protesting are the ones who feel hopeless and nihilistic. Their anger over their uncontrollable situations leads them to spiral towards uncontrollable anger, rage, and violence. While they can have positive effects on society; we are far beyond the days of the 50s when civility was still in vogue and the media and FBI hid peoples affairs and connections to poisonous public figures. Capitalism is inherently linked with greed and materialism. It is the source of all suffering in the world today. Simple.
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Nov 17, 2015 06:54
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OwlFancier posted:I didn't know humanity existed in a state of grace which was despoiled only by the invention of currency.
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Nov 17, 2015 06:56
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CuckEverlasting posted:The main source of all division in human history is capitalism. Material desire ergo capitalism - in its most base form, led to the development of slavery, racism, and nationalism. Every war from the beginning of mankind originates from capitalism. Bolded portions: Capitalism = violence Capitalism = human nature/natural Violence = unnatural Therefore: Capitalism = natural & unnatural. Your premises are generating a contradiction. One of them has to go.
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Nov 17, 2015 16:03
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CuckEverlasting posted:Why do you think I feel hopeless and nihilistic? The people protesting are the ones who feel hopeless and nihilistic. Their anger over their uncontrollable situations leads them to spiral towards uncontrollable anger, rage, and violence. While they can have positive effects on society; we are far beyond the days of the 50s when civility was still in vogue and the media and FBI hid peoples affairs and connections to poisonous public figures. People who do serious political demonstrations must have some hope that things can change, otherwise they would just post whiny screeds on internet forums about how we're all doomed.
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Nov 17, 2015 16:06
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CuckEverlasting posted:Simple. Wrong.
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Nov 18, 2015 01:53
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OP, what is the definition of capitalism that you are working with here? Most people hold with what you call "industrial capitalism" when they say capitalism, which has existed at most for about five hundred years. Is bartering alone capitalism? The concept of private property? Spell it out for us, please.
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Nov 18, 2015 15:01
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This is either a sick tr0ll or a reactionary leftist with little education. One is rare here, the other is a little too common
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Nov 21, 2015 05:39
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