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Sagacity
May 2, 2003
Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

Vulture Culture posted:

Most documentation is only useful if people read it, and companies like Atlassian make it very hard to understand how people are engaging with content on their platforms. Think about why, even though tracking views is one of the easiest and cheapest features they could possibly implement, it's in their best interest not to surface this information
Confluence has this feature though? So not sure why you're singling out Atlassian here.

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Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Sagacity posted:

Confluence has this feature though? So not sure why you're singling out Atlassian here.
You need to be on the plan where you pay double. So if you're on the standard plan, you need to commit to upgrading first before they'll show you how unused all your content actually is (and how little value your wiki is actually bringing you)

Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Apr 1, 2024

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
Answering a question with 'read this page I wrote months ago'' is a highly fulfilling feeling

Steve French
Sep 8, 2003

If I added the number of times that someone has asked "where is this documented?" after someone answers a question, as if they should never have to ask anyone for help or figure something out for themselves, to the number of times the same person has asked a question with a clearly documented answer, I'd have a large number.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.
Lemma: only support-centric teams have documentation in their wikis that's both useful and necessary.

Oysters Autobio
Mar 13, 2017
Thing with docs is that if you really want to bother with *any*, it's sort of all or nothing.

Either setup dedicated docs SSGs so your team can easily edit markdown in the same commit, or don't bother.

If all you can actually do is a sort of manual / half assed "expectation" that ppl will update the confluence, then don't bother.

If setting up markdown docs SSG sounds too onerous then it's probably not actually as important as you think it is. It's just not convincing to me that someone says something is mandatory, zero-fail or mission-critical but won't actually engineer something to support that.

Confluence is a wiki for fast business docs and project mgmt. Technical docs are a feature of the product.

Oysters Autobio fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Apr 7, 2024

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Oysters Autobio posted:

Thing with docs is that if you really want to bother with *any*, it's sort of all or nothing.

Either setup dedicated docs SSGs so your team can easily edit markdown in the same commit, or don't bother.

If all you can actually do is a sort of manual / half assed "expectation" that ppl will update the confluence, then don't bother.

If setting up markdown docs SSG sounds too onerous then it's probably not actually as important as you think it is. It's just not convincing to me that someone says something is mandatory, zero-fail or mission-critical but won't actually engineer something to support that.

Isn't that just literally having markdown file inside git repo on github/gitlab/any good git frontend?

redleader
Aug 18, 2005

Engage according to operational parameters

Oysters Autobio posted:

It's just not convincing to me that someone says something is mandatory, zero-fail or mission-critical but won't actually engineer something to support that.

:frogbon:

Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012
Please give me free quality professional advice so I can be a baby about it and insult you

Oysters Autobio posted:

It's just not convincing to me that someone says something is mandatory, zero-fail or mission-critical but won't actually engineer something to support that.
Alright listen here, hotshot: we are gonna do that as a fast-follow after we get our MVP out and do our initial ramp. Then, once the ramp starts, we're going to pass off everything your team developed to another team who will have no idea what's happening, and then when they ask us for help we'll tell them that we don't have capacity because we're working on the next big important business priority. Basically what I'm saying is that we'll do it, but it won't be us.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

oof ouch my boneslived experience

a dingus
Mar 22, 2008

Rhetorical questions only
Fun Shoe
Dang that's like tech_debt.txt copy pasta

Clanpot Shake
Aug 10, 2006
shake shake!

ChickenWing posted:

oof ouch my boneslived experience

MBAs will do anything to not pay down tech debt

Canine Blues Arooo
Jan 7, 2008

when you think about it...i'm the first girl you ever spent the night with

Grimey Drawer

Clanpot Shake posted:

MBAs will do anything to not pay down tech debt

I mean, if your company is hiring MBAs for literally anything they deserve to fail.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Clanpot Shake posted:

MBAs will do anything to not pay down tech debt

Any MBA born after 1993 can't manage... all they know is charge they laptop, "work," be business , cause tech debt and lie

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance
I was just saying the other day that my company doesn't seem to take competitive threats seriously enough and asked "don't we have any piece of poo poo MBAs with a coke problem in this company"

I certainly don't want them running the show but in a small and competitive market where I have equity I want at least one greasy paranoid piece of poo poo in my deck.

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

Volmarias posted:

Any MBA born after 1993 can't manage... all they know is charge they laptop, "work," be business , cause tech debt and lie

can we make this the title of every thread on the forums

Oysters Autobio
Mar 13, 2017

lol yeah I should've caveated that with an ironicat or something

xiw
Sep 25, 2011

i wake up at night
night action madness nightmares
maybe i am scum

Cpig Haiku contest 2020 winner
we've been mandated to switch from confluence release notes to jira releases

i am not allowed permissions to create/edit releases for, allegedly, ISO reasons.

as a sysadmin i have access to the jira master admin account but i am not allowed to use it to give myself the perms, so instead i slack the head of engineering for every release setup, update, typo fix, and date update.

downout
Jul 6, 2009

Every time our executives open their mouth, they expose how ignorant they are about software engineering.

Maybe this is self-evident to everyone, but I just gotta yell it into the void.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

xiw posted:

as a sysadmin i have access to the jira master admin account but i am not allowed to use it to give myself the perms, so instead i slack the head of engineering for every release setup, update, typo fix, and date update.
have you tried getting it right the first time and not making so many mistakes

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

a quote from teams the other day

managers.txt posted:

[4:02 p.m.] <manager>
Hi Everyone,

A quick update - <client> plans to go live directly with <version> to get <domain> forecast
So the tentative support start is mid-May.

[4:03 p.m.] <sr ML dev>
<domain> forecast 🫣

[4:03 p.m.] <sr ML dev>
we are at 26% accuracy with <domain> forecast

[4:05 p.m.] <manager>
Are we able to tune it for better accuracy / is the data not good enough?

:shepface:

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal

downout posted:

Every time our executives open their mouth, they expose how ignorant they are about software engineering.

Maybe this is self-evident to everyone, but I just gotta yell it into the void.

god SAME

Sagacity
May 2, 2003
Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

downout posted:

Every time our executives open their mouth, they expose how ignorant they are about software engineering.

Maybe this is self-evident to everyone, but I just gotta yell it into the void.
I suppose you're conversely fully up-to-date on how to run a company then

Clanpot Shake
Aug 10, 2006
shake shake!

downout posted:

Every time our executives open their mouth, they expose how ignorant they are about software engineering.

Maybe this is self-evident to everyone, but I just gotta yell it into the void.

Half of our stack is running on an end of life transport layer and nobody cares. Is that better or worse than what you're dealing with?

downout
Jul 6, 2009

Sagacity posted:

I suppose you're conversely fully up-to-date on how to run a company then

:rubby:

ElehemEare
May 20, 2001
I am an omnipotent penguin.

downout posted:

Every time our executives open their mouth, they expose how ignorant they are about software engineering.

Maybe this is self-evident to everyone, but I just gotta yell it into the void.


ftfy

Clanpot Shake posted:

Half of our stack is running on an end of life transport layer and nobody cares. Is that better or worse than what you're dealing with?

Don’t doxx me.

redleader
Aug 18, 2005

Engage according to operational parameters

Sagacity posted:

I suppose you're conversely fully up-to-date on how to run a company then

:jerkbag:

Aaronicon
Oct 2, 2010

A BLOO BLOO ANYONE I DISAGREE WITH IS A "BAD PERSON" WHO DESERVES TO DIE PLEEEASE DONT FALL ALL OVER YOURSELF WHITEWASHING THEM A BLOO BLOO

Sagacity posted:

I suppose you're conversely fully up-to-date on how to run a company then

Yeah bud, I'm just as qualified as the average CEO to run a company: not at all

Wibla
Feb 16, 2011

Clanpot Shake posted:

Half of our stack is running on an end of life transport layer and nobody cares. Is that better or worse than what you're dealing with?

OK, I'm curious now :v:

What transport layer?

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.
I had this aha moment this year where I realized that to get to a certain level of leadership, you have to either be the least curious person imaginable or manage your curiosity by being an rear end in a top hat to people trying to bring you fascinating problems. You cannot afford to be in a meeting and hear something so deeply engaging and interesting that it occupies your headspace, turns your gears, and makes you tune out the soul-crushing, boring poo poo that's important to the operation of the business

CEO skills are like being a distance runner: conceptually, there is virtually nothing hard about the job; you put one leg in front of the other, a lot of times. But doing it half competently requires a level of persistence that I hope to never need or have

Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Apr 18, 2024

a dingus
Mar 22, 2008

Rhetorical questions only
Fun Shoe
What you're chasing with interesting problems is insight and knowledge. A CEO is just chasing money.

PhantomOfTheCopier
Aug 13, 2008

Pikabooze!
Our engineering VP goes on sabbatical soon, but as yet the team leads are still in the stone age. The new manager gets that workload and was very clear that the teams are answerable for fixing broken processes, lack of clear project goals, deadlines, estimates, it's on the teams to make something work. Engineers on one team took the initiative, used this chance to share ideas about what to improve in the next few months.

Yesterday the lead told one of the 5yr engineers on the team that they had to change how they reviewed code. Production libraries, one off simple scripts, prototypes,... after four weeks of being told to focus on what matters, the highest priority for the team: Code style according to a manual checklist that the lead doesn't even follow.

I asked the engineer if they agreed that was the highest priority. Naup. Enough is enough. Lead won't listen to or engage engineers on the team, doesn't trust them, give them space to grow, doesn't even seem to know role responsibilities in the org.

lifg
Dec 4, 2000
<this tag left blank>
Muldoon
Where did you get your team leads from?

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Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

PhantomOfTheCopier posted:

Our engineering VP goes on sabbatical soon, but as yet the team leads are still in the stone age. The new manager gets that workload and was very clear that the teams are answerable for fixing broken processes, lack of clear project goals, deadlines, estimates, it's on the teams to make something work. Engineers on one team took the initiative, used this chance to share ideas about what to improve in the next few months.

Yesterday the lead told one of the 5yr engineers on the team that they had to change how they reviewed code. Production libraries, one off simple scripts, prototypes,... after four weeks of being told to focus on what matters, the highest priority for the team: Code style according to a manual checklist that the lead doesn't even follow.

I asked the engineer if they agreed that was the highest priority. Naup. Enough is enough. Lead won't listen to or engage engineers on the team, doesn't trust them, give them space to grow, doesn't even seem to know role responsibilities in the org.
I'm not sure if this is just ranting or looking for advice, but here's my thoughts:

a) Why is one person, being asked to make lightweight and modest changes to their operating process, a problem that demands understanding of prioritization?
b) Why does any person in your org, lead or otherwise, need to behave perfectly and avoid being seen as a hypocrite in order to make or suggest improvements?

I ask my kid all the time to clean up her plate when she leaves the table, sometimes while my own plate is still at the table. This is sometimes frustrating to her, but there shouldn't be a situation where the first person to do the wrong thing (for some person's definition of "the wrong thing") becomes accountable for taking care of it for every person that follows. You clean up your place now because you're still where the mess is, and that's how we do it here. I'll come right back and do mine. Mea culpa.

Honestly, it comes across that the problem is that you, your coworker, and potentially other folks don't like working with this person. That's okay. But focus there and have the conversations about that, not about some made-up prioritization reason.

Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Apr 19, 2024

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