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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Watch the TV series (you want the Director's Cut if possible), then End of Evangelion. The Rebuild movies are a retelling of the series that starts out similar and then ramps up the changes, and a huge part of what makes them tick is how they contrast with the TV series. They're definitely worth watching, and in theory you could start out with them and just watch them as their own story, but I wouldn't. (They're also incomplete, the fourth and final one is still a year or two out.) I've revisited the Rebuilds myself recently (See what this thread does to you? See!?  ) and while I still find a lot of them superfluous (and in 3.33's case, weirdly paced), there are still some really interesting ideas and performances in there, particularly in 3.33, which just came out on Blu-Ray in NA, I believe. For example, Shinji's relationship with Kaoru is a lot more detailed and nuanced, having the benefit of more time to develop, and a lot of the smaller characters do a lot with just a little*. There has been some backlash against the film for its ideas and theme, because it seems really abrupt and mean spirited to some (as others have mentioned, the entire situation brought about by the end of 2.22, i.e. Shinji making his first big, autonomous decision to pilot EVA and save Rei and being punished instead of rewarded for it, seems cruel and antithetical, as well as a not too subtle slap in the face to everyone screaming "GET IN THE #%$&ING ROBOT, SHINJI!!" ), but on reflection, both are a little bit more nuanced than that, especially considering the place that Anno is coming from now in comparison to when he began. Still, how "good" it all is will largely depend on how well 4.44 sticks the landing (and the thematic title it will have... You Are (Not) Forgiven, perhaps?), so take that as you will.*I'm thinking mostly of Misato here. She isn't in the film for very long (as one cover indicates, it's mostly the Shinji & Kaworu Show, Wa-hey), but I find she absolutely nails the role of someone who saw the world she wanted to protect unwittingly destroyed by someone she also wanted to protect, and who really doesn't know how to deal with seeing that person again, looking and acting exactly the same as he did 14 years ago. The part where she holds the trigger for Shinji's exploding collar, but can't pull the trigger until he's out of range, is rather poignant.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:11
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Uroboros posted:So, I have been catching these Funimation pre-views for what I assume are Evangelion movies 3.33 and the like, and they honestly look really good, but I am not sure where I should start. My only previous experience with this series is the original show, which I enjoyed at first, but of course was not pleased with the ending, which I have gathered over time is common. Basically, Evangelion layman, looking for advice on what to watch or avoid. Eva is good, watch the Eva. Best experience is probably in order of release, so TV show, EoE, then the ReBuilds. Then you should probably watch Godzilla, the 1970s TV series UFO, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, and slowly find yourself devoting more and more time to tracking down little references and influences. Then stop, because woah, that takes a lot of time. The manga is also good, so if you don't like watching things, read it and experience pretty much the same story with some interesting changes that only serve to enhance the experience and utilize the different format it is being presented through.
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Feb 3, 2016 18:36
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I don't think the idea was ever "gently caress you for wanting him to get in the robot", I think it's that solving your problems isn't that simple. Shinji took the step forward he needed by getting in the robot for his own reasons and because he wanted to do it, and asserting himself to his dad as the one who could do it. It comes back to the whole Hedgehog's Dilemma, by opening yourself up to others you risk being hurt. At the end of 2.0 Shinji takes that risk, but it doesn't all end there. He gets hurt. It doesn't work out the way he wanted it to. It's not that he was wrong or he did a bad thing, it's that he had no way of knowing what would happen afterwards. Nobody sat down and told him "Hey Shinji, trying to save the girl you love will blow up everything due to uniting the souls of the two beings who created life on this world, don't do that 'kay?" So he did what he felt was right and got hurt badly. The next step is how he deals with that pain, and Shinji still doesn't know how to do that. I think people are too eager to read the Eva series as the author being malicious towards the viewers, when the series doesn't really seem to have that tone. It is pretty sentimental and empathetic, actually. EoE is the example everyone points to for how dark and bleak the series is, but even that movie has an optimistic ending, only with one bittersweet note attached at the very last moment. It more or less ends the same way the TV series did, but told in a different way with a different perspective.
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Feb 3, 2016 18:39
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Augus posted:I don't think the idea was ever "gently caress you for wanting him to get in the robot", I think it's that solving your problems isn't that simple. Shinji took the step forward he needed by getting in the robot for his own reasons and because he wanted to do it, and asserting himself to his dad as the one who could do it. It comes back to the whole Hedgehog's Dilemma, by opening yourself up to others you risk being hurt. At the end of 2.0 Shinji takes that risk, but it doesn't all end there. He gets hurt. It doesn't work out the way he wanted it to. It's not that he was wrong or he did a bad thing, it's that he had no way of knowing what would happen afterwards. Nobody sat down and told him "Hey Shinji, trying to save the girl you love will blow up everything due to uniting the souls of the two beings who created life on this world, don't do that 'kay?" So he did what he felt was right and got hurt badly. The next step is how he deals with that pain, and Shinji still doesn't know how to do that. It's not just that Shinji takes the risk. It is that in that moment Shinji becomes his father. He actively and willingly embraces the power but he does it for a selfish reason: To save Ayanami. He even says that he doesn't care what happens to the world as long as he does that. This is explicitly the same goal as his father and they even underline that by changing Yui's last name to Ayanami. Shinji is not as far gone as his father (and is a genuinely better person) but Eva 3.0 really emphasizes the idea that they're not that different. it's something the TV show does as well but the movie goes all-in on it. Shinji getting in the robot isn't really a solution because Shinji's problems are far larger than just not being assertive enough. That said, yes, there is also some element of it being unfair and a mistake he couldn't have fully anticipated which is why Eva 3.0 is about his panicking and dealing poorly with that and struggling to undo a mistake and go back and fix something that went wrong, with the final message being "you can't redo a mistake, you have to deal with the consequences of that mistake instead."
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Feb 3, 2016 18:55
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Augus posted:I don't think the idea was ever "gently caress you for wanting him to get in the robot", I think it's that solving your problems isn't that simple. Shinji took the step forward he needed by getting in the robot for his own reasons and because he wanted to do it, and asserting himself to his dad as the one who could do it. It comes back to the whole Hedgehog's Dilemma, by opening yourself up to others you risk being hurt. At the end of 2.0 Shinji takes that risk, but it doesn't all end there. He gets hurt. It doesn't work out the way he wanted it to. It's not that he was wrong or he did a bad thing, it's that he had no way of knowing what would happen afterwards. Nobody sat down and told him "Hey Shinji, trying to save the girl you love will blow up everything due to uniting the souls of the two beings who created life on this world, don't do that 'kay?" So he did what he felt was right and got hurt badly. The next step is how he deals with that pain, and Shinji still doesn't know how to do that. Anno does not troll fans, he gives a ending based on the same principals: Good and bad stuff happens, things can go right or not, but just because bad things happen does not mean everything is poo poo nor does doing the right thing mean everything will always turn out ok. You are alive after all, you still have a chance to be happy and feel pain. One sucks but the other is awsome. Foul Ole Ron fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 18:56
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It's really easy to take the whole "curse of the eva" thing as some sort of jab at people wanting the exact same characters still even though eva was 17 years old when that movie came out, especially because it's never really brought up again.resurgam40 posted:there are still some really interesting ideas and performances in there, particularly in 3.33, which just came out on Blu-Ray in NA, I believe. For example, Shinji's relationship with Kaoru is a lot more detailed and nuanced, having the benefit of more time to develop this is actually a big reason why I don't like 3.33 very much. I feel like kaworu is a character that works as well as he did because he only had less than 20 minutes of screentime. His appearance in rebuild just feels like fan pandering the same way star wars episode two has a billion different boba fets in it. The first two have him cameo for no real reason besides to be cryptic and because people would be mad if they didn't include him somewhere, and then 3.33 has the same general story as ep 24 but told in a somewhat different/not as interesting/way longer manner.
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Feb 3, 2016 19:28
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ImpAtom posted:It's not just that Shinji takes the risk. It is that in that moment Shinji becomes his father. He actively and willingly embraces the power but he does it for a selfish reason: To save Ayanami. He even says that he doesn't care what happens to the world as long as he does that. This is explicitly the same goal as his father and they even underline that by changing Yui's last name to Ayanami. Shinji is not as far gone as his father (and is a genuinely better person) but Eva 3.0 really emphasizes the idea that they're not that different. it's something the TV show does as well but the movie goes all-in on it. Shinji getting in the robot isn't really a solution because Shinji's problems are far larger than just not being assertive enough. Getting in the robot isn't a solution, but it is something that Shinji just needs to do. If he doesn't do it than everything is over, the angels will destroy humanity; it's a responsibility that has fallen onto Shinji and he needs to learn to deal with it. The problem Shinji is getting invested in that goal, he doesn't find any attachment to humanity because he's all alone, so he can't motivate himself or find personal fulfillment in using the Eva. By forming relationships with other people he can gain that investment in their battle. And his relationship with Rei is the beginnings of forming that connection with humanity. She gives him a human connection that drives him to fight. What's important isn't getting in the robot, but why he gets in the robot. Shinji is indeed like Gendo in the way that they both deal with other people and react to pain in the same way. Gendo isn't necessarily selfish, per se, but he's afraid of hurting others and he's afraid of being hurt, just like Shinji. After losing Yui he devoted himself to a single goal and closed himself off emotionally from everyone around him, he even says in EoE that he felt if he was there for Shinji he would've only hurt him, and by being emotionally distant he was doing him a favor. Shinji is even more obviously like Gendo in 3.0 but he didn't become that way because he embraced his power, but because of how he reacted to his failure. darealkooky posted:It's really easy to take the whole "curse of the eva" thing as some sort of jab at people wanting the exact same characters still even though eva was 17 years old when that movie came out, especially because it's never really brought up again. This is kinda something I still don't really get and that I'll need to look out for when I rewatch the movie.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:12
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I mean if he didn't want to have the same characters he probably should have just made something else.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:17
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darealkooky posted:It's really easy to take the whole "curse of the eva" thing as some sort of jab at people wanting the exact same characters still even though eva was 17 years old when that movie came out, especially because it's never really brought up again. They specifically referred to the whole "fans keep clinging to the never-changing characters and setting and wanting to see it recycled" as the Curse of Evangelion in interviews back with 1.0 came out so that part at least is intentional, thought it isn't really mindless trolling. lets hang out posted:I mean if he didn't want to have the same characters he probably should have just made something else. Evangelion's a complex thing because it kind of overshadows everything else they've worked on and for good or ill is still a really omnipresent thing. It's something that happens to a lot of really successful creators. George Lucas will never fully escape Star Wars, J.K Rowling isn't ever getting away from Harry Potter, and so-on. Rebuild is at least partially an attempt to deal with both that popularity and the changes in feeling and personality since the original writing. A lot of writers will attempt to revisit old works to deal with that sort of thing (as well as to get the easy buzz of popularity). Stephen King did it with his Shining sequel which was a lot more about dealing with alcoholism and his son than it was about being a pure sequel for example. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 20:17
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lets hang out posted:I mean if he didn't want to have the same characters he probably should have just made something else. but then how would he get bank off the gigantic evangelion fanbase/money mahcine
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Feb 3, 2016 20:43
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Honestly I think humanity has what happens coming to it. You put the depressed kid in the machine that can end the world? It's your drat fault when he fucks up half the planet. I feel basically zero sympathy for Misato and all the other mooks in Wille. l33tc4k30fd00m fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 21:10
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There is no get in the robot, just get in the very engine of the apocalypse and hope it doesn't end the world. There is no positive endgame for the Eva's they border on lovecraftian nightmare fueled rage beasts that contain the souls of the dead mashed together with horrid genetic experiments using heavenly hosts. There mere existence is madness and counter to natural laws. 2.22 ~> 3.33 is great because it really gets this concept anno isnt punishing shinji because he finally stood up for himself shinji just doesnt realize that any course of action that has him enter unit 01 chances upon the apocalypse. EoE spoilers In EoE the deck was so stacked against him just getting in the robot led to the exact same outcome. Zasze fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 15:01
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That's what happens when you work for a company whose idea of "science" is mashing various cosmic forces beyond human comprehension together and seeing what comes out.
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Feb 4, 2016 15:56
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Augus posted:That's what happens when you work for a company whose idea of "science" is mashing various cosmic forces beyond human comprehension together and seeing what comes out. Yeah. Since it didn't exist the first time I watched the show, I didn't make the connection, but it's really similar to the game Sunless Sea in that regard. Multiple groups of people who want nothing more than to gently caress with the forces governing the universe and end existence. I would really like to see a prequel to Eva, showing how hosed up the world was to lead all these people to decide that it was better to just start anew.
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Feb 4, 2016 16:10
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post history joke goes hereSakurazuka posted:Yeah, it was forbidden to ever post a thread about Eva and FLCL for a long time When I grow up I'm gonna become a bitter adtrw reactionary that can't shut up how much better things were when we had monthly eva threads like god intended.
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Feb 4, 2016 16:50
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Kytrarewn posted:I would really like to see a prequel to Eva, showing how hosed up the world was to lead all these people to decide that it was better to just start anew. I don't think the Instrumentality Project would've been in place back when Second Impact happened. A lot of what went on between then and when the series started can be inferred by the environments and the way characters behave, and that stuff would definitely lead to a depressing outlook on life. If Instrumentality was already planned back then...well I dunno, maybe just the issues people always deal with made them come up with the idea, like the kind of problems we have in our real world.
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Feb 4, 2016 19:33
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Augus posted:I don't think the Instrumentality Project would've been in place back when Second Impact happened. A lot of what went on between then and when the series started can be inferred by the environments and the way characters behave, and that stuff would definitely lead to a depressing outlook on life. If Instrumentality was already planned back then...well I dunno, maybe just the issues people always deal with made them come up with the idea, like the kind of problems we have in our real world. 2nd impact happened as the alternative would have been unthinkable, a fulky formed ADAM would have been walking around and be melded with at whim by any angel that pleased. After second impact, ADAM was rendered immobile and could be used to make evas.
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Feb 4, 2016 20:59
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This show has always been one of my favorites. When I was a young idealistic 18 year old I was desperate to make friends any way that I could. When I was in highschool I had watched a few Japanimation shows but no series outside of DBZ. I joined the Air Force and I got to Keesler AFB for my job training. I met two guys Hawk and Teague, they were both into anime and D+D and the 3 of us clicked instantly. We brought another guy Bowles into the fold and we were a power foursome of nerdiness. Hawkins had the first two VHS tapes of Evangalion and I had a TVCR so we would camp in my room and watch the first 4 episodes. We would all pitch in money to get the new VHS's whenever we could. That all changed when I got my Playstation 2 and we had access to a DVD player. We instantly went out and got all the NGE DVDs we could. We camped out in my room all weekend and pretty much marathoned the last half of the series. I was warned by Hawk that it got strange at the end but nothing could prepare me for what I watched. Shortly afterwards we also watched Serial Experiments Lain (which when we did the simulwatch of that brought back many happy memories) and we all went to Coastcon in Biloxi Mississippi. I found all 4 12" Eva figures and I spent probably $100 or so to get them. Eva was the show that ignited a love of anime that still exists to this day. Is it weird? Yes In hindsight did I make a bigger deal out of it than I should've? Probably. But NGE is a great show that I will eternally be grateful to it for igniting my passion and giving me great friends that I stay in contact with until this day.
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Feb 5, 2016 08:37
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That's a cool story; I'm glad you made lifelong friends. 
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Feb 5, 2016 09:03
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If I wasn't on mobile I would post congratulations.gif and mean it unironically. I miss those days when there was the time to have those kind of tv marathons.
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Feb 5, 2016 16:25
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SalTheBard posted:Eva was the show that ignited a love of anime that still exists to this day. Is it weird? Yes In hindsight did I make a bigger deal out of it than I should've? Probably. But NGE is a great show that I will eternally be grateful to it for igniting my passion and giving me great friends that I stay in contact with until this day. If I had to name a single anime series as the one that could have a dramatic impact on someone and inspire them to a) change their life and/or b) get really into anime, Evangelion would be that show without question.
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Feb 5, 2016 20:45
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Raxivace posted:That's a cool story; I'm glad you made lifelong friends. Agronox posted:If I wasn't on mobile I would post congratulations.gif and mean it unironically. I miss those days when there was the time to have those kind of tv marathons. Reading it back I was a little embarrassed but thank you guys for the kind words. Paracelsus posted:If I had to name a single anime series as the one that could have a dramatic impact on someone and inspire them to a) change their life and/or b) get really into anime, Evangelion would be that show without question. I would probably make it a Mt Rushmore: Evangelion, Gundam Wing, DBZ, Outlaw Star and Robotech
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Feb 5, 2016 21:20
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I would go with Haruhi. Not to take anything from NGE or any of the other highly regarded and quality shows I have watched (or any of the incontrovertibly terrible ones) but nothing to date has compared to the first time watching that show in its ability to make me laugh, cry and think. That said, I watched NGE for the first time more than a decade before watching Haruhi, so it's entirely possible that it contributed in ways I can't even measure to my ability to take the latter, for lack of a better word, seriously.
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Feb 5, 2016 21:33
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k-on
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Feb 6, 2016 02:14
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Kytrarewn posted:I would go with Haruhi. Not to take anything from NGE or any of the other highly regarded and quality shows I have watched (or any of the incontrovertibly terrible ones) but nothing to date has compared to the first time watching that show in its ability to make me laugh, cry and think. Ya Haruhi would probably be a good one too. That's such a great show
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Feb 6, 2016 05:36
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Haruhi's impact has really lessened for me over time since it seems like the story never really went anywhere, even ignoring the silly Endless Eight arc.
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Feb 6, 2016 05:47
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Steins gate got me through the door, Haruhi made me take off my shoes and relax.
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Feb 6, 2016 07:59
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Just an update on my view with herself. We are about to hit 19 and should be on EoE by the end of the weekend. In summery: likes Kaji, Rei. loving hates Asuka, thinks Shinji is whiney but better so far. Gendo is known as dick head dad. She know something is coming so it will be curious to see what she thinks about the next few episodes (where poo poo really hits the fan)
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Feb 9, 2016 15:36
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Also are people watching the rebuilds?
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Feb 9, 2016 15:37
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I think it was left up to people if they wanted too. I was going to but I can't find my blurays 
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Feb 9, 2016 15:41
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Foul Ole Ron posted:loving hates Asuka,
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Feb 9, 2016 17:18
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Foul Ole Ron posted:Gendo is known as dick head dad. That's a good name.  She still shipping Shinji with err... anyone?
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Feb 9, 2016 18:42
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Jostiband posted:That's a good name. She is a massive shipper but thinks they are too young to really ship. Though she did with Misato and Kaji. In truth shes aware that Eva is not as straight forward so I think she is holding back judgement. She is not into this type of show usually but liked other Anime . Again it will be interesting to how EoE and 25-26 go down.
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Feb 9, 2016 19:48
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Pretty sure there is going to be a lot of "What the gently caress?" and "Oh, god damnit."
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Feb 11, 2016 13:45
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Just dropping in to say thanks for arranging all this. Didn't join in with the simulwatch, but this being on the front page for so long kept reminding me that I needed to get around to finally watching this show. I've been watching over the past week or so and finished End of Eva just yesterday, and thought the whole thing was fantastic. Great characters, soundtrack, intrigue, etc. and some of the best pacing I've seen in an anime (or perhaps in TV shows in general) - at least for the first 3/4 or so of the show. The pacing did start to get a little weaker towards the end and, while I got what they were trying to do with the final two episodes, I kind of wish it'd been preceded by two episodes wrapping up a bit more of the non-character plot. I know that the characters and such were meant to be the main focus of the show and the ending was in part probably meant to emphasize that, and I agree that a character-focused ending was definitely the right move. However, although I'd have no problem with the final two episodes being what they were, more or less dropping the rest of the plot threads to do so made for an unsatisfying ending no matter how much I enjoyed what we got. I doubt it would've been possible for them to add two episodes at that point, of course, but it's still a shame. Nonetheless, EoE provided what I was looking for, so I guess it all worked out in the end. All in all, an excellent show I enjoyed a hell of a lot.
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