Metroid? What's that? Let's Play Environmental Station Alpha!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Metroid? What's that? Let's Play Environmental Station Alpha!

«‹›9 »

Dancer: May 23, 2011

Zanzibar Ham posted:

Thank you Smite for showcasing the game. I wonder what Hempuli is working on right now. Environmental Station Beta? Or does he want to add enough content to ESA until you can get 200% completion?

(now it'll turn out he talked about it in a video and I completely forgot)

Also I think that last secret pretty much forces you (and Madi) to eventually complete the boss rush and become certified Cool Persons.

He did mention a sequel, involving among other things 12x12 tiles so it'll be less crazy pixelated.

# ? Apr 16, 2016 17:05

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 5, 2024 06:12

Smash Daisaku: Jul 12, 2008; Last Bet $15 on Player 1
Odds 807.1:1 ($1)

Dancer posted:

He did mention a sequel, involving among other things 12x12 tiles so it'll be less crazy pixelated.

I'm not entirely convinced that it won't just be another elaborate secret added to this one.

# ? Apr 16, 2016 20:59

Ciaphas: Nov 20, 2005; > BEWARE, COWARD

I can't believe the absurd amount of postgame this game had. Eesh. :psyduck:

Thanks for doing this Smite, great game. Now I just need someone to do Axiom Verge for my modern metroid-like needs :v:

# ? Apr 17, 2016 02:23

Hempuli: Nov 16, 2011

Thanks for doing such a high-quality and thorough LP, Smite & Madithen!
It's been very enjoyable to watch and help commentate, as well as read the discussion here; having people talk about the game at all makes me very happy to begin with but watching the LP & the resulting discussion has given me a huge amount of very valuable feedback, some of which I hadn't really even thought of before now. So again, thanks a lot! :tipshat:

I'm working on a couple new projects, one of which is a sequel to ESA. It's been less than a week since I've last been asked when the game comes out of alpha so I really need to reconsider the naming scheme for the sequel, haha. I hope Smite doesn't mind this, but here's a little animation to show the difference between 8x8 and 12x12 tiles (it's much larger than I'd have assumed):

# ? Apr 17, 2016 03:33

bawk: Mar 31, 2013

Hempuli posted:

Thanks for doing such a high-quality and thorough LP, Smite & Madithen!
It's been very enjoyable to watch and help commentate, as well as read the discussion here; having people talk about the game at all makes me very happy to begin with but watching the LP & the resulting discussion has given me a huge amount of very valuable feedback, some of which I hadn't really even thought of before now. So again, thanks a lot!

I'm working on a couple new projects, one of which is a sequel to ESA. It's been less than a week since I've last been asked when the game comes out of alpha so I really need to reconsider the naming scheme for the sequel, haha. I hope Smite doesn't mind this, but here's a little animation to show the difference between 8x8 and 12x12 tiles (it's much larger than I'd have assumed):

This looks absolutely beautiful, very much like Shantae and the Pirate's Curse or Momodora Reverie in its fluid animation.

By the way, if you pick out a 150x150 max avatar of something from one of your new projects, I will buy the poo poo out of that for you, so you don't get stuck with the stupid newbie av.

And if you have any habit of wanting to update people on game progression, you should absolutely make a thread in Games for your sequel so you can leak out bits and pieces of what you're working on while gathering larger feedback of likes/dislikes on ESA.

# ? Apr 17, 2016 03:38

GenderSelectScreen: Mar 7, 2010; I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME; College Slice

Hempuli posted:

Thanks for doing such a high-quality and thorough LP, Smite & Madithen!
It's been very enjoyable to watch and help commentate, as well as read the discussion here; having people talk about the game at all makes me very happy to begin with but watching the LP & the resulting discussion has given me a huge amount of very valuable feedback, some of which I hadn't really even thought of before now. So again, thanks a lot!

I'm working on a couple new projects, one of which is a sequel to ESA. It's been less than a week since I've last been asked when the game comes out of alpha so I really need to reconsider the naming scheme for the sequel, haha. I hope Smite doesn't mind this, but here's a little animation to show the difference between 8x8 and 12x12 tiles (it's much larger than I'd have assumed):

Very nice, reminds me of the difference between Metroid and Super Metroid. Will the protagonist be any larger with this size change?

# ? Apr 17, 2016 03:38

FisheyStix: Jul 2, 2008; This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

I can't wait until the sequel comes out so I can buy it. Watching Smite LP this one was a treat, and I can't wait to do some exploring of my own in ESA2. Some of the after-game here was sheer genius.

# ? Apr 17, 2016 04:22

drifterofhell: Nov 5, 2009

Thanks for the LP Smite, that was very enjoyable and awesome!

Thanks for making the game Hempuli, it's very hard and fun!

# ? Apr 17, 2016 04:36

Manatee Cannon: Aug 26, 2010

this game seems pretty cool and I'm glad I got to see it

# ? Apr 17, 2016 04:51

Autechresaint: Jan 25, 2012

Hempuli posted:

Thanks for doing such a high-quality and thorough LP, Smite & Madithen!
It's been very enjoyable to watch and help commentate, as well as read the discussion here; having people talk about the game at all makes me very happy to begin with but watching the LP & the resulting discussion has given me a huge amount of very valuable feedback, some of which I hadn't really even thought of before now. So again, thanks a lot!

I'm working on a couple new projects, one of which is a sequel to ESA. It's been less than a week since I've last been asked when the game comes out of alpha so I really need to reconsider the naming scheme for the sequel, haha. I hope Smite doesn't mind this, but here's a little animation to show the difference between 8x8 and 12x12 tiles (it's much larger than I'd have assumed):

Awesome! Can't wait. Loved ESA, despite not getting into the post game stuff.

# ? Apr 17, 2016 05:59

Catsworth: Sep 30, 2009; Who doesn't wanna be Johnny Cat?

Hempuli posted:

Thanks for doing such a high-quality and thorough LP, Smite & Madithen!
It's been very enjoyable to watch and help commentate, as well as read the discussion here; having people talk about the game at all makes me very happy to begin with but watching the LP & the resulting discussion has given me a huge amount of very valuable feedback, some of which I hadn't really even thought of before now. So again, thanks a lot!

I'm working on a couple new projects, one of which is a sequel to ESA. It's been less than a week since I've last been asked when the game comes out of alpha so I really need to reconsider the naming scheme for the sequel, haha. I hope Smite doesn't mind this, but here's a little animation to show the difference between 8x8 and 12x12 tiles (it's much larger than I'd have assumed):

You put so much detail and love into even the little things, it's no wonder ESA turned out as amazing as it did. I'm sure your next project will be great too. Thanks for the game, and thanks for the videos, Smite and Madi.

# ? Apr 17, 2016 12:22

A Pleasant Hug: Dec 30, 2007; ...It's the thought that counts, right?

Hempuli posted:

It's been very enjoyable to watch and help commentate, as well as read the discussion here; having people talk about the game at all makes me very happy to begin with but watching the LP & the resulting discussion has given me a huge amount of very valuable feedback, some of which I hadn't really even thought of before now. So again, thanks a lot!

Well, on that note, if I may offer some two cents.

Your game was excellent right up until the point where I had to manually translate an alien language. The bits I saw through the LP that did not require this were also excellent. I am likely not the only one who felt this way; a lot of those puzzles were clever and required some inventive solutions (and dear god, the amount of secrets all over the place!!). While I can completely understand why you did this, since in-context you are dealing with alien beings you are not likely to understand, some people, myself included found that bit impenetrable. I wanted to keep playing and just try to brute-force things without learning it, but it starts to crop up a lot in the post-game, becomes your source of clues for progression, (which is optional, yes, and we didn't have to do it) and if it weren't for other people doing the translations, I wouldn't have understood anything after this.

Perhaps there's still a way you could make everyone happy; you could leave in the intended manner, while also allowing people who can't solve, or don't feel like translating these in every encounter to continue the game. I don't think dumping the full solution on people is the most elegant solution, but perhaps something piecemeal would work out better? I'm sure other games have played with the idea, but the only one I can think of is Final Fantasy X with its Al Bhed language, which players can either learn for themselves, or slowly learn through the Primer items you acquire throughout the game. You could even still reward the guys who do it manually by offering a one-off event somewhere that requires you to know the language before you'd acquire much of the translation.

Just some ideas to take in for the future. I didn't get to enjoy the satisfaction of solving things myself, but it was still fun watching to see all the ~~cool people~~ ~~friends~~ ~~bikes~~ things I missed.

# ? Apr 17, 2016 16:35

Daerc: Sep 23, 2007; Look! A door! This must mean something!

Awesome job with the LP, Smite and Madi.

Hempuli posted:

I'm working on a couple new projects, one of which is a sequel to ESA. It's been less than a week since I've last been asked when the game comes out of alpha so I really need to reconsider the naming scheme for the sequel, haha. I hope Smite doesn't mind this, but here's a little animation to show the difference between 8x8 and 12x12 tiles (it's much larger than I'd have assumed):

That looks really, really good. Thanks for making ESA (and for helping Smite's stream when we got a little over obsessed with the whales) and I can't wait for your next game.

# ? Apr 17, 2016 16:37

Hempuli: Nov 16, 2011

Thanks a lot for the kind replies! :blush:

thecluckmeme posted:

By the way, if you pick out a 150x150 max avatar of something from one of your new projects, I will buy the poo poo out of that for you, so you don't get stuck with the stupid newbie av.

And if you have any habit of wanting to update people on game progression, you should absolutely make a thread in Games for your sequel so you can leak out bits and pieces of what you're working on while gathering larger feedback of likes/dislikes on ESA.

The sequel is very early in development and work on ESA kinda proved to me that I shouldn't put too much info out before I have a clear idea of when the game will be finished. Thanks for the suggestion, though! Also thanks for the avatar offer, I'd love to have this gif from another project-in-development as an avatar, preferably without any text(?):

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

Very nice, reminds me of the difference between Metroid and Super Metroid. Will the protagonist be any larger with this size change?

The protagonist will be a bit taller, 1.5 tiles high instead of 1 tile; crawling adds a lot of flavour and I like the idea of being able to have enemies that are noticeably smaller than the player, something that was pretty tough to do in 8x8 tiles.

Seiren posted:

Well, on that note, if I may offer some two cents.

Thanks for this! As you guessed, the biggest reason there's so much of the alien language in the post-endgame is because to me it would've been thematically weird to return to normal text as you get deeper to the obscure puzzles. Overall the design in some of the puzzle content related to the alien ending ended up somewhat confused, because I was at first going all-in with making it very obscure and hard to find out about, but then got afraid that no-one would see said content and added more hints. The alien language would of course have been equally annoying to deal with even if the alien ending was more obscure, but on some level I feel that once you get past a certain level of obtuseness in videogame secrets that becomes less of a problem.

# ? Apr 18, 2016 04:06

Smite: Jul 5, 2007; ...and then he eats the body, but they always cut out the spoon scene.

Hempuli posted:

Thanks for this! As you guessed, the biggest reason there's so much of the alien language in the post-endgame is because to me it would've been thematically weird to return to normal text as you get deeper to the obscure puzzles. Overall the design in some of the puzzle content related to the alien ending ended up somewhat confused, because I was at first going all-in with making it very obscure and hard to find out about, but then got afraid that no-one would see said content and added more hints. The alien language would of course have been equally annoying to deal with even if the alien ending was more obscure, but on some level I feel that once you get past a certain level of obtuseness in videogame secrets that becomes less of a problem.

Need to be able to find a translation powerup that puts plain English on the screen along with the runes!

# ? Apr 18, 2016 04:09

TooMuchAbstraction: Oct 14, 2012; I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.; Fun Shoe

Smite posted:

Need to be able to find a translation powerup that puts plain English on the screen along with the runes!

Yeah, as was mentioned earlier in the thread, La-Mulana handles this well. You can find old texts written in a language that your normal decoder device can't decipher; you have to find four Rosetta stone-like tablets to learn the language. I'm pretty sure that if you were particularly ambitious you could decipher the untranslated text manually, but it's not a requirement.

If you wanted to force the player to do some deciphering by hand, you can just hide the auto-decipherer behind the first deciphering puzzle. "Okay, you've proven you can do this, now here's a toy so you don't have to do it any more". Because really, once you've figured out the substitutions, deciphering text is a pretty tedious activity.

EDIT: Hempuli, you might be interested in the Making Games Megathread, where a bunch of the gamedev goons hang out.

TooMuchAbstraction fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Apr 18, 2016

# ? Apr 18, 2016 04:51

Ugato: Apr 9, 2009; We're not?

FFX handled it pretty decently with the primers if you want to hide 26+ collectibles. Basically you learn a letter with each primer and that letter gets auto-translated. It leaves in a bit of the flavor of translating on the fly, especially when you've collected just a few letters. You have to guess at words still but eventually you get the hang of translating in context to the point that you recognize the alien letters as what they should be in English until you finally find all the primers (imo, it's easier with gibberish letters than the English letter swap they do for the Al Bhed language in FFX). And you don't need all of them to understand the language.

But of course that requires programming that sort of letter replacement as opposed to having just alternate text boxes for translated vs. not.

Also, take it with a grain of salt because I like the language thing.

# ? Apr 18, 2016 06:12

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 5, 2024 06:12

Velius: Feb 27, 2001

I'm playing through this again trying to sequence break as much as possible. The early V-dash is pretty well known now, but there's a fair amount of extra stuff you can do besides. In particular I'm trying to avoid fighting any unnecessary bosses as long as possible. This means no generator, no h-dash, but you need to fight the serpent S for charge shot and the scrapping unit for hookshot.

So far I've managed to get triple shot, plasma field, and supercharger (!) plus get to the first AI boss fight (for the derelict ship passcode) without turning on the generator or fighting overgrowth. I can also get to the heat resistant suit room from below, but I don't think it's possible to get it without the dash booster X. I just hit the blue tiles and bounce down. Nothing clever like deactivating prior to the room transition then reactivation works, which is unfortunate because I think it's a nice sequence break otherwise.

It's possible to get the dash booster X out of sequence, it's just really hard and I haven't pulled it off yet. One trick I've used a couple times is that if you activate double jump plus hookshot simultaneously it sometimes boosts you about twice as high. Not useful in narrow passages though since you end up hooking. That let me get pillar 3 activated early among other things.

Velius fucked around with this message at 21:25 on May 12, 2016

# ? May 12, 2016 21:22

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Metroid? What's that? Let's Play Environmental Station Alpha!

«‹›9 »