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BIG-DICK-BUTT-FUCK
Jan 26, 2016

by Fluffdaddy

Albino Squirrel posted:

The two primary IV ones that have been bandied about are hydromorphone and diacetylmorphine (heroin). For reasons of palatability hydromorphone was chosen, because 'literal heroin' is a tough sell to people who aren't familiar with the opioid world. Also, IV hydro is pretty widely available in the medical world because it's literally used all the time for non-addiction reasons; when they knocked my fat rear end out for a knee arthroscopy, part of the cocktail they used was hydromorphone. So part of the choice was familiarity. Also, hydromorphone is one of the cleaner opioids in terms of metabolites especially in renal failure, so there's fewer side effects.

And yes, iOAT sometimes uses enormous doses, but for the past two years the availability and potency of fentanyl and carfentanil here have been ridiculous. You literally need to dose that much sometimes to stop someone going into withdrawal. Yeah, it's certainly euphoric, but the goal of care is to prevent w/d and that's a reasonable clinical assessment to make - there's a bit of room between 'no longer dope sick' and 'high as gently caress.' If sometimes there's a bit of aggressive dosing and someone gets a little happy... enh, not the end of the world, but it's not the point of the therapy. Also, because it's dosed in the clinic, the risk of diversion is... well, not zero, but certainly lower than if it was provided at the pharmacy.

I also wanna point out that iOAT is intended as rescue therapy. The gold standard of opioid care is buprenorphine, and somewhat below that methadone. You couldn't get into iOAT without trying and failing both of those. I personally try to steer as many patients as possible towards suboxone because it's just so much drat safer. The problem sometimes is that they take it on the street and then go into precipitated withdrawal and then never want to touch it again. Well, of course it wasn't fun, you took 2 mg when you were high as hell on fentanyl and then felt like you were dying.

Just to be clear, I was simply blown away by the tolerances of some of your patients. No criticism, judgement, or moralizing intended. "armchair medicine" is always weak stuff, I'm sure that you & other medical professionals are dosing & prescribing appropriately. Suboxone is great stuff but the withdrawals were absolute hell on earth. I wasn't able to sleep a wink until day 5, and that's just the most memorable symptom.

Thanks for the thorough explanation

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King Possum III
Feb 15, 2016

The Lone Badger posted:

My medical knowledge is extremely limited, but would it be possible to have a slow release implant like they use for birth control or an implanted pump like they use for insulin, keeping a constant concentration of (appropriate drug) in the bloodstream to prevent craving while being very difficult to misuse / increase the concentration?

You've just described Sublocade; a once-monthly subcutaneous injection that releases buprenorphine at a controlled rate.

https://www.sublocade.com/?utm_camp...wE&gclsrc=aw.ds

King Possum III fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Mar 1, 2022

KingEup
Nov 18, 2004
I am a REAL ADDICT
(to threadshitting)


Please ask me for my google inspired wisdom on shit I know nothing about. Actually, you don't even have to ask.
Kevin Sabet had better watch out ‘cause there’s a new shitlord in town:

https://twitter.com/zachwritesstuff/status/1525847402334367744?s=21&t=6RuVPr8oCZL5bcrOhAK9cA

War and Pieces
Apr 24, 2022

DID NOT VOTE FOR FETTERMAN
gently caress an Opioid Epidemic bring in the Oedipal Epidemic

Mr Luxury Yacht
Apr 16, 2012


So interesting development here in Canada on our similar Opioid issue:

https://twitter.com/AndreaWoo/status/1531699777238208512?s=20&t=DVjQDYh0G9SMYYNU0Nh29g

Feds announced starting next year (and in BC only for now), small amounts of hard drugs are going to be decriminalized. Up to 2.5 grams, with exceptions for schools and airports etc... No charges, no ticket, no seizures if under that amount.

Amount is smaller than BC was asking for (they wanted 4.5g) but it's a start I suppose.

pangstrom
Jan 25, 2003

Wedge Regret
hey, good. Where I live in NY all the older folks (esp. the older Italian-Americans) are losing their minds about weed.

moths
Aug 25, 2004

I would also still appreciate some danger.



I'm surprised at no seizures, that's like a hundred bags of fentanyl.

Am I correctly understanding that the harm reduction is in trying to destigmatize addiction and recognizing that jail isn't going to help these folks?

King Possum III
Feb 15, 2016

n/m

King Possum III fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Jun 2, 2022

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pangstrom
Jan 25, 2003

Wedge Regret
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/29/opinion/opiate-fentanyl-epidemic.html
Covers a lot of territory with not a lot of paint but gist is I think through just through dint of social channels that have been qualitatively similar since caveman times (even if many transmission media are new) opioids look to be in a self-limiting phase, in the US at least. A coherent, moral policy response would have been nice, though!

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