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Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer

SMERSH Mouth posted:

OK so here's a completely idiotic question. Do conventional (horizontal, cloth, focal plane) shutter curtains move at variable speeds? After spending way to long watching the shutter action of my old kiev-60, trying to figure out what to do about its shutter capping at 1/1000, I'd want to say that the curtains always move at a constant (very fast, near instant) rate, and it's only the timing of the second curtain's release that causes variation in exposure time.

I'm very sure that this is the case. Not only is it much easier to build that kind of system (you don't need variable tension springs or weirdness like that), you;d also want the shutter to open and close very fast to avoid banding.

FWIW, I 'solved' the limited shutter speed options on my Kiev 88 with ND filters.

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SMERSH Mouth
Jun 25, 2005

Heh, I did the exact same thing. Hell, a lot of MF cameras don't even have 1/1000 shutter speeds (the venerable Fuji GW690 for example).

Although the Kiev I ordered from Hartblei, except for the first roll of film I ran through it, has shown very good performance across all tested shutter speeds... So far.

Have been tooling around with my sovcams recently. Will have a post about what I've managed to fix and what I've probably hosed up even worse sometime soon. With pictures.

Primo Itch
Nov 4, 2006
I confessed a horrible secret for this account!

SMERSH Mouth posted:

Heh, I did the exact same thing. Hell, a lot of MF cameras don't even have 1/1000 shutter speeds (the venerable Fuji GW690 for example).

Although the Kiev I ordered from Hartblei, except for the first roll of film I ran through it, has shown very good performance across all tested shutter speeds... So far.

Have been tooling around with my sovcams recently. Will have a post about what I've managed to fix and what I've probably hosed up even worse sometime soon. With pictures.

Shoot Ilford Pan F+ and you won't even remember 1/1000 exists.

(Really, try it, it's some amazing film in MF)

k-zed
Dec 1, 2008

Fallen Rib
To my understanding, these curtain shutters open fully for the specified speed up to 1/60, then change to the moving slit system for faster speeds - but not all shutters work the same way.

Hokkaido Anxiety
May 21, 2007

slub club 2013

k-zed posted:

To my understanding, these curtain shutters open fully for the specified speed up to 1/60, then change to the moving slit system for faster speeds - but not all shutters work the same way.

They will open fully to whatever the sync speed of the camera is. After that, the second curtain begins travelling before the first curtain is done, which is why you get black bars across your image if you use flash above the sync speed.

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer
Today's valuable acquisition is a 1988 Zenit 12FS. Which would be a fairly dull late-Soviet 35mm SLR except that the FS in the name stands for FotoSnaiper. It's a camera that is guaranteed to get you shot by the police if you try and use it, and taken aside for some TSA funtimes if you ever try and travel with it. The idea is pretty sound, the KMZ factory which made the massively popular line of Zenit cameras, also made the Tair 300mm lens which is ideal for taking pictures of distant wildlife. It's lovely and sharp, 300mm gets you right close to the action and it opens relatively wide (f/4.5) for a lens of its vintage. The bad news is that the thing weighs about 4 kilos. Not only is that a lot for a photographer to try and keep steady, it's also a lot for the lens ring on the camera body to support. So some bright spark in Krasnogorsk came up with the idea of mounting the camera and lens onto a rifle stock. The camera is specially adapted so that it can be triggered from a pin underneath the body as well as by the usual top-mounted shutter-button and the lens has a unique underbarrel focus control. It comes in a specially designed box with a bunch of accessories including a filter set, a 52mm f/2 lens (the same one that came with almost every other Zenit camera) and a folding stock (really!)

Mine is complete, works perfectly but I'm not sure I'm brave enough to try using it.

1988 Zenit 12 Fotosnaiper by Iain Compton, on Flickr

DJExile
Jun 28, 2007


hahahaha that is goddamn amazing

Hollow Talk
Feb 2, 2014

Helen Highwater posted:

Today's valuable acquisition is a 1988 Zenit 12FS. Which would be a fairly dull late-Soviet 35mm SLR except that the FS in the name stands for FotoSnaiper. It's a camera that is guaranteed to get you shot by the police if you try and use it, and taken aside for some TSA funtimes if you ever try and travel with it. The idea is pretty sound, the KMZ factory which made the massively popular line of Zenit cameras, also made the Tair 300mm lens which is ideal for taking pictures of distant wildlife. It's lovely and sharp, 300mm gets you right close to the action and it opens relatively wide (f/4.5) for a lens of its vintage. The bad news is that the thing weighs about 4 kilos. Not only is that a lot for a photographer to try and keep steady, it's also a lot for the lens ring on the camera body to support. So some bright spark in Krasnogorsk came up with the idea of mounting the camera and lens onto a rifle stock. The camera is specially adapted so that it can be triggered from a pin underneath the body as well as by the usual top-mounted shutter-button and the lens has a unique underbarrel focus control. It comes in a specially designed box with a bunch of accessories including a filter set, a 52mm f/2 lens (the same one that came with almost every other Zenit camera) and a folding stock (really!)

Mine is complete, works perfectly but I'm not sure I'm brave enough to try using it.

1988 Zenit 12 Fotosnaiper by Iain Compton, on Flickr

If you do use it and if the police does shoot you, at least you might get some good photos of it.

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005
Yeah I'm not sure using that in public in Ukraine in the current environment is the greatest idea.

unpacked robinhood
Feb 18, 2013

by Fluffdaddy
I remember seeing that thing in a museum in Prague, i thought it was a custom design for soviet spies and stuff
Photosnaiper is a smart name though, in the sense that you'll probably attract snipers while taking photos.

bellows lugosi
Aug 9, 2003

Get legit with it and take street photos from inside of a bush

SMERSH Mouth
Jun 25, 2005

Are there are recreational rifle/shooting ranges in Ukraine? If so, bring it out to one and take a bunch of pictures of targets. Once the film is developed, go back to the range and show everyone how good your aim was. Be completely serious the whole time.

John Denver Hoxha
May 31, 2014

What a persistent nightmare!
....but enough about my posts
So I just got the film itch back (sorta ashamed to admit it was the Lomography instant automat kickstarter that reignited my interest)

Snagged myself a Zenit 11 with Helios 44-2(seems to function, only flaw I noticed is a vertical line which seems to be in the viewfinder prism and not on the mirror or anywhere in the lightpath to the film, but I'm struggling to find a 1 hour lab anywhere in my city to actually see, and still intimidated by the thought of processing). It's a heavy beast but I like how it feels
Also got a cheapo Focal 135
Waiting on an MC 3M-5CA mirrored telephoto

I saw the fotosnaipers, I sorta want one but then I don't want to get shot in the other way.

[also just because it's so adorable, snuck in my new zoom 110]




Edit: Found a 1 hour shop nearby and it works! The Helios seems to live up to its reputation, once you get out of the focal plane everything softens up really beautifully.

John Denver Hoxha fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Sep 25, 2016

John Denver Hoxha
May 31, 2014

What a persistent nightmare!
....but enough about my posts
One thing I've noticed that is interesting is the huge number of variants down to the minor detail of whether labels are written in cyrillic/latin script.
I've had a Smena where the nameplate says it in both scripts but it says "Made in USSR" in english, and my Zenit 11 is the same way. The Helios is all in latin script.

I have seen variants of all of those that are all latin, all cyrillic, and pretty much every permutation. Pretty wacky

The Claptain
May 11, 2014

Grimey Drawer
Just wait until you start paying attention in which factory it was produced: http://cameras.alfredklomp.com/logos/

SMERSH Mouth
Jun 25, 2005

One of the twist locks on the removable back of my 79' Kiev 4 broke. "No problem, I'll use the back from this broken 72' Kiev 4"

Nope. So much for standardization and interchangeable parts. And these are, I think, from the same factory.

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer
I just discovered that the 'Kiev bayonet mount' as found on later 35mm Kiev SLRs is exactly the same as the Nikon mount. That means I can try some nice glass on my Kiev 19 and see what I get out of it. I have a Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 and I checked the fit so I'll make some tests with it this weekend.

John Denver Hoxha
May 31, 2014

What a persistent nightmare!
....but enough about my posts
The MC 3M-5CA [or SA depending on your script] is a beast. While this 500 mm [F/8 fixed] mirrored telephoto is not particularly long (and surprisingly light) it seems like it should kick some rear end. Definitely a lot less of a bullet magnet than a fotosnaiper (as awesome as I find that concept). I will definitely need a tripod for this one. Condition seems fine besides some cosmetic scratches (glass is clear and I can get it into razor focus)






And talking about the Helios being awesome, wanted to post some of the softening I was talking about (I think i need a UV filter?). It almost looks painted


SMERSH Mouth
Jun 25, 2005

I have a question that I can't seem to find the right Google keywords to unlock the answer to.

Did the Soviet Union manufacture its own color film? Was it decent or did professional Soviet photogs import Kodak & Agfa? Assuming that it existed, what happened to it?

I would think that since the SU had a big motion picture industry that they also had a domestic (or East German, Yugoslav, etc.) source of color film.

I have a roll of 64GOST Svema that came with an eBay purchase, but that's black & white.

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer
Svema also made colour film. Their Wikipedia entry only mentions black and white, but you can find a lot of expired 120 and 135 Svema colour film on eBay still. They also made cinefilm and magnetic media. A friend of mine in Ukraine runs a video production unit attached to the Ministry of Culture and they have a poo poo-ton of old Soviet movie cameras and film stock. Svema is the name on most of those boxes.

ORWO in the DDR had the original Agfa plant and processes which they sold in the Soviet bloc under the Agfa brand at first, and then under their own name later when they wanted to export to the West. Again, they made colour films including cine and sheet film as well as most popular rollfilm variants.

SMERSH Mouth
Jun 25, 2005

That's cool. I'll have to go digging for some examples now.

By the way, you mentioned using ND filters to avoid the need for 1/1000 on your Kiev 88. (The same thing that I did with my 60 until I had it cla'd by a local East European camera specialist)

I'm curious if your 88 has the metal shutter upgrade. I've been thinking about the boxy hasselblad SLR style 6x6 lately, and how cool the 88 looks in particular, and have been considering if the metal curtains really are more accurate.

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer
Mine has the metal shutter. It was a no-cost upgrade when I ordered it. I can't speak to it being more accurate than the cloth shutter but it feels about right for whatever that's worth and exposures that have been metered with my DSLR work when transferred to the 88. I have picked it up few times with the magazine off and put my thumb on the shutter accidentally without incident - with a cloth shutter, I'm sure I'd have poked a hole in it. Sounds like a train crash when it closes though, you definitely need the mirror lockup if you get the metal shutter.

You can't avoid banding under certain conditions (lots of light, fast shutter) with such a big frame whether it's metal or otherwise. Gevorg at Arax says it helps but it won't solve the problem which is baked into the design. It's a big part of why Hasselblad stopped offering 1600 and 1000 speeds on their V system cameras.

8th-snype
Aug 28, 2005

My office is in the front room of a run-down 12 megapixel sensor but the rent suits me and the landlord doesn't ask many questions.

Dorkroom Short Fiction Champion 2012


Young Orc
It's worth noting that some (maybe all) soviet produced color neg films are NOT C41 process and can not be processed commercially by most labs.

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer
The portfolio site thread is archived and I don't think it's worth starting a new one, but I added the initial content to my new photo-blog. Mostly it's an excuse for me to talk about my collection of Soviet cameras but hopefully it will become more of a resource for me to point potential collaborators at and to showcase how terrible my photos are. I'd appreciate any feedback (telling me to take better pictures won't work however) and maybe people might be interested to read some hands-on impressions of various cameras. Gear pages are here.

I still have some sample images to post for a few cameras in the collection and I might add some video of me talking about specific gear if I get around to it.

aricoarena
Aug 7, 2006
citizenh8 bought me this account because he is a total qt.
Comrades! Over 400 issues of Soviet Photography magazine are available at https://archive.org/details/sovetskoe_foto

Seems to be mostly about photography rather than gear but it looks like there are some reviews and adds.

ExecuDork
Feb 25, 2007

We might be fucked, sir.
Fallen Rib

aricoarena posted:

Comrades! Over 400 issues of Soviet Photography magazine are available at https://archive.org/details/sovetskoe_foto

Seems to be mostly about photography rather than gear but it looks like there are some reviews and adds.
This is something that I find really interesting and puzzling about FSU cameras and photography - how does the entire consumer-goods cycle (design, production, distribution, marketing, sales) work in an economy that is expressely the opposite of consumer capitalism?

Comrade! You have exceeded this factory's monthly production quota! All units were sold in record time! You must be a filthy western capitalist running-dog lackey and you are going to Siberia now!

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer
People still want nice things even in a centrally planned economy. Just that in a centrally planned economy, there are fewer choices because there's not much point in having overlapping production when you are running all of the options. So each FSU 'brand' serviced a particular niche and the factories used the experience of developing consumer products to improve their parallel military output. The only place that there was much of a choice was at the ultra low end, and that was due to the requirement to spread production around to cover the higher demand for cheaper ranges.

On top of that, the USSR needed to export a fairly large chunk of its output to have access to foreign currencies like the US dollar. Official policy was to only export low-end goods that were in surplus which is why there are so many Zenits, Lubitels and FEDs in junk shops outside the FSU but not so many 35mm Kievs.

underage at the vape shop
May 11, 2011

by Cyrano4747
They stole patents from germany after ww2 and made leica clones. Afaik you could have a 'company' but you couldnt have patents or proprietary designs. I dont think think soviets punished popular 'companies' for having better quality output provided they played within the rules and bribed the right officials.

E: You were allowed to have your own product to a degree too. Even in wartime, t34 tanks are tracable to specific factories because they are all a bit different.

underage at the vape shop fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Mar 22, 2017

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Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer
The Soviets made Leica clones before WWII, the first FEDs were straight copies of the Leica 2 and were built from 1934. The first Zorki was a FED copy built because the Ukrainan FED factory couldn't handle demand after getting flattened by the Nazis. Turns out that Uncle Joe and his buddies couldn't give a poo poo about Western patent protections. Most of the post-war FSU lenses were straight up stolen from CZJ once the Soviet troops 'liberated' Jena and Dresden and got access to all the tooling and the engineers who designed them.

Soviet factories did innovate from time to time, but resources were strictly controlled and the military output of each factory had priority so most of the engineers just kept the civilian lines going with incremental improvements over time. Occasionally they got the instruction from above to pull out the stops for some trade show project to demonstrate Soviet superiority and you get a thing like the Kiev 10 or the Horizon.

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