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lilljonas
May 6, 2007

We got crabs? We got crabs!

A Buttery Pastry posted:

There's not even any evidence the guy was Danish. Seems much more likely that he was painted as a Dane because Dirk Pitt has been convinced by Swedish propaganda that anyone saying racist stuff is actually a Dane.

Just because it's propaganda doesn't mean it's not true

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Nice piece of fish
Jan 29, 2008

Ultra Carp

lilljonas posted:

Just because it's propaganda doesn't mean it's not true

You mean it's proper ganda?

Anders
Nov 8, 2004

I'd rather score...

... but I'll grind it good for you

A Buttery Pastry posted:

There's not even any evidence the guy was Danish. Seems much more likely that he was painted as a Dane because Dirk Pitt has been convinced by Swedish propaganda that anyone saying racist stuff is actually a Dane.

Every racist isn't danish but ever dane is racist until proven otherwise. I don't make the rules unless I make them up

lilljonas posted:

Just because it's propaganda doesn't mean it's not true

BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



Anders posted:

Every racist isn't danish but ever dane is racist until proven otherwise. I don't make the rules unless I make them up
If this was smørrebrød, there'd be more smør than brød, at this point.

SplitSoul
Dec 31, 2000

Nice piece of fish posted:

You mean it's proper ganda?

If it's good for the goose stepper...


Speaking of which, DF's EP frontrunner Anders Vistisen is launching a true crime podcast called "Plague Over Europe". You can probably surmise what it's about.

Anders
Nov 8, 2004

I'd rather score...

... but I'll grind it good for you

SplitSoul posted:

If it's good for the goose stepper...


Speaking of which, DF's EP frontrunner Anders Vistisen is launching a true crime podcast called "Plague Over Europe". You can probably surmise what it's about.

Warthogs? Maybe that's just in Norway

Edit: oh! I got it! Sitka spruce!


... maybe that's just in Norway too

SplitSoul
Dec 31, 2000

Anders posted:

Warthogs? Maybe that's just in Norway

Edit: oh! I got it! Sitka spruce!


... maybe that's just in Norway too

Der Ewige Moslem

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005

today I learned that the norwegian sovereign wealth fund owns shares of roblox corp. so norway has a larger ownership of the internet-famous oof sound than Tallarico morally does

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

So hey, just wondering, did Sweden release and or return the skulls, actual human skulls, that their race science gently caress faces stole from Finnish grave yards, and which Sweden is now saying no take backsies, we need them for our race science purposes?

Oh, they didn't? Well, happy skull measuring, Sweden

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Rappaport posted:

So hey, just wondering, did Sweden release and or return the skulls, actual human skulls, that their race science gently caress faces stole from Finnish grave yards, and which Sweden is now saying no take backsies, we need them for our race science purposes?

Oh, they didn't? Well, happy skull measuring, Sweden

sweden has a very long and illustrious history of skull measuring. they were once at the very forefront of race science and craniometrics. it makes sense that they're trying to maintain their lead in these critical fields

Rust Martialis
May 8, 2007

At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Rappaport posted:

So hey, just wondering, did Sweden release and or return the skulls, actual human skulls, that their race science gently caress faces stole from Finnish grave yards, and which Sweden is now saying no take backsies, we need them for our race science purposes?

Oh, they didn't? Well, happy skull measuring, Sweden

Your linked article.... doesn't say that? Did you mix up links?

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011




V. Illych L. posted:

sweden has a very long and illustrious history of skull measuring. they were once at the very forefront of race science and craniometrics. it makes sense that they're trying to maintain their lead in these critical fields

Let''s not pretend that we are any better. Thor Heyerdahl himself took skulls with him and they were only returned a couple of years ago. Not to mention how the medical institute in Oslo fought against letting Julia Pastrana get a decent burial.

Mymla
Aug 12, 2010

quote:

The Swedish institute apologized, but the skulls remained: Finland demands to give back
Skulls were looted from Finnish graves for racial studies.
Finland has on several occasions demanded to get the looted skulls of the Finnish dead back from Sweden.

Finland again demands Sweden to return the skulls looted from Finnish graves in the 19th century, which are kept in the Karolinska Institute.

According to Sveriges Radio Finska, Finland has submitted an official request. Finland has demanded to get skulls back several times before.

Iltalehti has reported on the matter in 2018 and 2019, for example, when the Karolinska Institute received a petition to process the matter, which was signed by, among others, university researchers working in Sweden and Finland and the vicar of Pälkänee, which was the target of grave robberies.

- The matter has come to the attention of the ministry, and it is currently being investigated at official level, the then Minister of Education Sanni Grahn-Laasonen (kok) commented on the matter to Iltalehte in March 2019.
Also read
Controversy over human skulls looted from Finland: The Ministry began to investigate the return

In 2019, the Karolinska Institute apologized for looting graves of Finnish skulls, but the return of the skulls has not progressed. The vicars of Pälkäne and Rautalammi have announced that the skulls will be buried in an appropriate manner after they are recovered and identified.

In 2023, the Swedish Ministry of Foreign Affairs informed Helsingin Sanomat that the goal is to return the skulls "in a legally safe and respectful manner as soon as possible."

It is about 80 skulls that were looted from graves located in Pälkäne, Rautalami and Pielavede in 1873. The skulls were taken to be examined by Swedish race researchers, as Finns were not considered a European race at that time.

The skulls looted from Finnish graves originate from the studies of Professor Gustaf Retzius (1842–1919), the father of Swedish race theory, with which he wanted to show that the long-skulled Swedes had a different origin than the short-skulled Finns and Sámi.

According to Retzius, the short-headed Finns - as well as the Sami - were mostly related to the Mongols, while the tall-headed Swedes were a pure northern Germanic race.


In what loving universe does it take 6+ years to drive from sweden to finland?

(Assuming 2018 was even the first time they asked)

(Ignoring how people working at KI knew about the skulls for 150 years and just chose not to return them)

Esran
Apr 28, 2008

Mymla posted:

In what loving universe does it take 6+ years to drive from sweden to finland?

(Assuming 2018 was even the first time they asked)

(Ignoring how people working at KI knew about the skulls for 150 years and just chose not to return them)

Now now, you don't want to disrespect the dead by being hasty. The Swedish Entmoot needs to deliberate for a bit longer.

quote:

In 2023, the Swedish Ministry of Foreign Affairs informed Helsingin Sanomat that the goal is to return the skulls "in a legally safe and respectful manner as soon as possible."

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Alhazred posted:

Let''s not pretend that we are any better. Thor Heyerdahl himself took skulls with him and they were only returned a couple of years ago. Not to mention how the medical institute in Oslo fought against letting Julia Pastrana get a decent burial.

we are but apprentices to the swedish masters in this field

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Rust Martialis posted:

Your linked article.... doesn't say that? Did you mix up links?

Skull measuring emeritus spotted

V. Illych L. posted:

sweden has a very long and illustrious history of skull measuring. they were once at the very forefront of race science and craniometrics. it makes sense that they're trying to maintain their lead in these critical fields

It's all fun and eugenics until people start suing over being survivors of racial purity programmes

quote:

After years of denial, Sweden began moves yesterday to compensate thousands of citizens sterilised in a grim social experiment in eugenics which lasted more than 40 years.

Stockholm's social affairs ministry announced it would pay up to £13,430 to each surviving victim of the 1934-76 programme.

The decision follows the report in January of an official commission set up in the wake of newspaper reports in 1997 that up to 63,000 people - 90 per cent of them women - were sterilised with state approval to improve Swedish "racial purity" as part of a policy of "ethnic hygiene". The commission has received up to 200 calls a month from victims.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
Who doesn't like a good skull?

SplitSoul
Dec 31, 2000

thotsky posted:

Who doesn't like a good skull?

Hans... är vi baddierna?

anatomi
Jan 31, 2015

My grandfather was a professor at Lund University and he had a real human skull on his desk in his home office. The top of the cranium had been sawed off — he kept candy in there.

I'm 0% surprised that KI's dragging their feet. It's a hosed up institution.

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

If I didn't already want my skeleton laminated and donated to a school or kindergarten as an anatomical puzzle piece, being a candy bowl for an eccentric professor would be my second wish.

Zudgemud
Mar 1, 2009
Grimey Drawer
I'm pretty confident that the reason the skulls have not been returned is a mix of "we don't know exactly where they are and won't allocate funds to find them” and "this would set a precedent for other entities to loot our extensive loot, at our cost!".

Rust Martialis
May 8, 2007

At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there
Or there's a condition in some bequest where the guy left his collection and estate to the KI requiring they never return any of them...

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Rust Martialis posted:

Or there's a condition in some bequest where the guy left his collection and estate to the KI requiring they never return any of them...

This seems like a curious hill to die on (lol, die, skulls, :ohno:)

The Wikipedia article on the guy posted:

He also studied ancient Swedish and Finnish skulls, following the steps of his father Anders Retzius, who had studied the crania of different human "races" and made pseudoscientific contributions to phrenology. Retzius was one of the fathers of the pseudoscientific race theory, "scientific racism", trying to glorify the "Nordic race" as the highest race of mankind.

I hadn't looked this up before, either, but turns out if you kick a Svensk mound, you find more racism

teen witch
Oct 9, 2012
I feel that having a Danzig-era Misfits amount of skulls, refusing to either return them or do anything with them of genuine merit (whatever the hell that could be), and then getting mad that people are pointing this out is asking for a multigenerational curse.

If you can’t be bothered to do the bare minimum, congratulations, centuries of darkness and despair. I think a few humbling years of ceaseless anguish might change some institutions or governments tune real quick.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.

Rappaport posted:

I hadn't looked this up before, either, but turns out if you kick a Svensk mound, you find more racism

Much like Finland (also the swedish parts) then, the common history of the two is apparent whenever you look deeper.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

His Divine Shadow posted:

Much like Finland (also the swedish parts) then, the common history of the two is apparent whenever you look deeper.

Hey, Finland is the only Axis state that wasn't occupied

Of course we can have a discourse about project Stella Polaris and how Svärje felt about the Third Reich, but water under the bridge right

lilljonas
May 6, 2007

We got crabs? We got crabs!

Mymla posted:

In what loving universe does it take 6+ years to drive from sweden to finland?

(Assuming 2018 was even the first time they asked)

(Ignoring how people working at KI knew about the skulls for 150 years and just chose not to return them)

Karolinska is a neverending burning trash heap of scandals, so this is not something unusual for them.

E: This is just one of the active ones, where a top maternity care doctor got fired for... using her emails wrong? While their lawyers fought tooth and nail to defend an Italian doctor who used false research to implant plastic throaths which slowly and painfully killed the patients.

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/RGP7A8/nya-larm-om-karolinska-blivit-totalt-galet

lilljonas fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Mar 25, 2024

Falukorv
Jun 23, 2013

A funny little mouse!
Still baffled by how the doctors at KI were conned by Macchiarini, even as a layman some crucial questions spring up on how the throats are supposed to work, what with a throat needing to be elastic and flexible to move saliva and mucus and move with the muscles. you take a look at that plastic thing and you would think to be more scrutinous of such a procedure.

Rust Martialis
May 8, 2007

At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there
Apropos of nothing, just saw a guy fully rocking the toothbrush moustache at Bilka in Fields'

Potrzebie
Apr 6, 2010

I may not know what I'm talking about, but I sure love cops! ^^ Boy, but that boot is just yummy!
Lipstick Apathy

Falukorv posted:

Still baffled by how the doctors at KI were conned by Macchiarini, even as a layman some crucial questions spring up on how the throats are supposed to work, what with a throat needing to be elastic and flexible to move saliva and mucus and move with the muscles. you take a look at that plastic thing and you would think to be more scrutinous of such a procedure.

Doctors are incredibly stupid and gullible sometimes. As are we all.

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009

teen witch posted:

a few humbling years of ceaseless anguish
We call that Moderatstyre.

BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

Falukorv posted:

Still baffled by how the doctors at KI were conned by Macchiarini, even as a layman some crucial questions spring up on how the throats are supposed to work, what with a throat needing to be elastic and flexible to move saliva and mucus and move with the muscles. you take a look at that plastic thing and you would think to be more scrutinous of such a procedure.

A crucial part of being Scandinavian is trusting that authority figures are probably right about these sorts of things*. I personally would trust that he had thought of the problem and fixed it.

*Only applies to stem bullshit, not important stuff like redistribution of wealth or vaccines.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Isn't part of that convincing people it's stem bullshit when it's all about making The Hard Choices?

Which, to be clear, are all about making everything poo poo

PoontifexMacksimus
Feb 14, 2012

Rappaport posted:

Hey, Finland is the only Axis state that wasn't occupied

Of course we can have a discourse about project Stella Polaris and how Svärje felt about the Third Reich, but water under the bridge right

Which HoI4 mod is this character from, again?

https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Stella_Polaris

Den finländske underrättelsechefen Aladár Paasonen, vilken jämte Reino Hallamaa hade högsta ansvar för operationen, levde fram till 1970-talet i USA.

https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alad%C3%A1r_Paasonen

Aladár Antero Zoltán Béla Gyula Árpád Paasonen, född 11 december 1898 i Budapest i dåvarande Österrike-Ungern, död 6 juli 1974 i Flourtown i Pennsylvania i USA, var en finsk officer och underrättelseman.

[...]

Aladár Paasonen var son till den finländske professorn i lingvistik Heikki Paasonen och hans ungerska hustru Mariska Paskay de Palásthy. Han deltog som underlöjtnant i finska inbördeskriget på den vita sidan och befordrades 1920 till löjtnant. Åren 1921–1922 studerade han vid École supérieure de guerre, där bland hans klasskamrater fanns Charles de Gaulle.

[...]

Tillsammans med Reino Hallamaa var Paasonen ansvarig för Operation Stella Polaris, då underrättelsetjänstens hemliga material flyttades till Sverige. Han rekryterades därefter av den franska underrättelsetjänsten, och senare av CIA, för att arbeta i Västeuropa under efterkrigstiden.

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SplitSoul
Dec 31, 2000

Wow, it only took EL five months to officially begin supporting the Gaza protests. Good job.

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