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  Some of you may remember Giselle from my previous thread.   We had our disagreements, but ultimately a solid relationship between man and machine. Due to smog rules in Arizona (and not wanting to install the emissions equipment again), I had to let her go live with my parents in Mississippi for a while,  but of course, not before becoming susceptible to the Mazda Curse™. Just a light tap, though, not that it matters now...   The last time I saw Giselle in person (and had the chance to drive her) was this past Thanksgiving, and aside from the scrapes on her nose, everything was working great. I flew home (now San Francisco) knowing that my mom and dad would take great care of her until the day I'd have the time and money to start a true restoration, as they both are as emotionally invested in her as I am. A few months ago, my dad took a job offer at Pensacola NAS, so it became evident that they'd have to move down there rather than have him live in an apartment and drive four hours each direction on the weekends. My parents decided to build a new house rather than buy for a number of reasons, but one in particular is that many homes down there only have two-car garages, and they wanted a third stall for Giselle  Anyway, to make a long story short, the new house won't be done until close to the end of the year, but their current place sold already (they're actually in the process of moving out as I type this), so they're renting a place for a few months while they wait. Due to time and scheduling constraints, my dad would have to drive Giselle down to the rental property on the July 4th weekend and park her indoors until construction finishes.Now I had planned on including a lot of stuff at this point regarding my insurance policy, but after further consideration I'm going to skip it for the time being, especially since matters are still pending. If anybody wants a synopsis, feel free to ask. Before my dad got on the road the morning of July 5th, I gave him advice over the phone as to anything that may go wrong mechanically, and joked that the AC probably wasn't working again so he shouldn't try using it. More importantly, I emphatically stressed that he must keep to the speed limit, and be very attentive - in a small car without modern safety features, driving through rural Alabama, things can go south very quickly. (See what I did there? gently caress.) Well, I'm forever glad that he heeded my advice, because of loving course the Mazda Curse™ struck again... with a vengeance.      If my father had been going any faster than 55 MPH, hadn't started braking as soon as he knew poo poo was going down (I guess that proves they could be locked), wasn't driving a low-slung wedge of a sports car, and didn't happen to miraculously slide in-between and under the wheelbase of a higher truck... things would have been far, far worse. He dislocated his left pinky toe from clutching in at the last moment, but other than that is fine (he went to a doctor as soon as he could that day and filed a medical claim just in case). The other driver (who is completely at fault according to both my dad and the crash report, for failure to yield to oncoming traffic) went to the hospital because the side airbags deployed, but I don't believe there were any major injuries. The truck's probably relatively easy to fix, but was towed away alongside mine. Here's the carnage:           Let's not worry about money for just a moment - in fact, just assume I'm an eccentric millionaire with disposable income. I want to save this car, no matter what the cost. I can already tell from pictures that everything related to front suspension and steering is toast, as well as the cooling elements (radiator, AC heat exchanger, front mount oil cooler), but it appears that the engine, carburetor and transmission are actually fine (though you bet your rear end I'd strip all three down and thoroughly check before ever using them again).The rest of the shell is in too fine shape to just throw away, and front end collisions aren't nearly as soul-crushing as side- or rear-impact crashes. That being said, it's still a unibody car, and I have zero experience with diagnosing major structural damage like this. Yes, I'm eventually going to remove everything from the engine bay and take it to a few body shops for an official verdict once the claim is finalized (I've already accepted that it will be written off as a total loss and will buy it back regardless), but I thought I'd get an idea of what some of my options are from ~the internet~ first. For example, I've scoured through the white noise that is the First-Gen subforums of RX-7 club and have noticed a trend in various opinions concerning this kind of damage: quote:not worth it bro, cut your losses and buy a new shell then swap as much as you can over and sell the rest to recoup the cost I want this to be a last resort, due to my previously stated opinion about the rest of the shell. quote:I've seen worse lol, just take it to a shop that specializes in straightening banged-up track cars and put it on a frame machine Perhaps, but the damage is well past the strut tower and heading into the firewall in places. Not to mention that I have no idea about the condition of the lower frame rail, which could be twisted and compromising its strength. quote:I've repaired worse lol, back in the late '80s we used to cut out and weld in entire front quarter panels, including the frame rail This idea frightens me, but apparently experienced fabricators do it all the time with success. Again, however, I'm worried about weakening the rest of the 30-year-old body somehow. Also, finding the right person to do it, because I'm certainly not. quote:tube frame it to save weight haha I have no concept of what safety inspections are because I am 18 years old As baller as this idea is, I believe it opens up a huge can of worms for a number of legal and parts-availability reasons. So the thing is, I'm all the way across the country at the moment and won't be working on this hands-on for a while. Giselle was going to be registered in Florida in a few months, but if she'll get a salvage title from this incident, then that would really complicates things (and I might just go with comedy option #4 up there, except actually stick to a race track). I'm aiming to accept the settlement from the other party's insurance with the condition that the current Mississippi title never leaves my possession, but who knows if that will happen. If it does, however, I'd really like to go whole-hog and make her road-legal again with a full repair and restoration, but I need to know if it's feasible. tl;dr my car has a boo-boo and how should/do I fix it
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Jul 26, 2016 00:04
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literally let out a low, sad "noooooooo" as I scrolled down.  gently caress man, I'm so sorry. I know how much it sucks but you're almost certainly going to have to find a new shell to swap everything salvageable over to, that is a mighty bend. Even if it can be straightened, the car will never drive 'right' again, and you'll drive yourself insane trying to make it as good as it once was. I'm glad your dad is ok, minus the toe, and I hope that the rear end in a top hat driver gets hosed bloody without lube by the courts/insurance. e; I lost my '85 GS hard-top to a similar situation. Pulling out of my friend's driveway at the top of a blind hill, with shrubs around it, I had just barely peaked the nose out when a guy in a brand new Tiburon (it still had 30-day tags on it) came flying over the hill and clipped the front end in front of the wheels. He ended up barrel-rolling several times (the police later said he'd been going 25mph over the limit minimum), my RX7 was still drive-able but everything from the hood forward was destroyed, including the rad support and inner frame rails. Terrible Robot fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Jul 26, 2016 |
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Jul 26, 2016 00:19
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Poor baby I would go make the acquaintance of very experienced old bodymen and not like the corner Maaco or guys on the internet. FB body parts are a little easier to find than SA parts at least, if that helps... This makes Sweet Chili Heat's bent drag link look like a door ding.
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Jul 26, 2016 00:21
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I agree reshelling it seems like the best approach. Money no object, fly KevBarlas out and lock him in a metal shop with it for a couple of months. If you can source one that's had a nasty rear-ender, I'd take all the front end metalwork off that and graft it on. If done along the original joints, I wouldn't have any issue with that. Bonus of any option involving two cars to make one is that you can use the leftover mechanicals to make a Locost...
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Jul 26, 2016 00:24
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poo poo dude, that car was aces. Glad your dad's okay at least. Barring "re-shell it" which is probably objectively your best course of action, I'd guess that cutting off the damaged parts of the unibody and welding in a replacement from a good donor would be the way to go. The rest of the car shouldn't be affected, the only thing I'd be worried about would be the join between the replaced sections and the rest of the car, which is down to finding a drat good, reputable body man who knows how to fabricate that kind of poo poo. The other issue is once you find someone who'd do the work, you might discover that it barely saves anything or even costs more than just finding a new clean, intact shell and swapping all your running gear over. BTW I showed my buddy those pictures cause he saw me wincing at them, and he immediately launched into "see that's why I always wanna drive a truck, cause you're higher than the other car so you don't get hurt  ". Caue we all know no one's ever been hurt from crashing a truck. 
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Jul 26, 2016 00:28
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That's hosed. I would get another and start swapping parts, but I've been accused of being a quitter before.
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Jul 26, 2016 00:29
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Okay, yes it's fixable and maybe easier than you expect. You will need a front half cut to start out with and you will need to be extremely good with a welder. There's no getting out of it - you are going to have to do a cut n shut. You aint straightening the front rails without a drat good jig and puller, a lot of money and patience..... and even then it'll still most likely be twisted. Strength - you will actually probably make it stronger if anything with a cut n shut. I doubt the lower rails are compromised beyond repair The windscreen is not broken initially so this suggests that the rest of the shell will be fine. Was it the removal of the truck that broke it? My advice over and above that is to get on Facebook and contact KaptainBallistik - he repaired this ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWdPpHj07g0 to this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTyeZoZA_D8 And he'll give you step by step exactly what you need to do and how to do it. We had a lot of firewall damage as well, that we fixed with a portapower and lot of hammering and welding. In the end, the VR4 is definitely better than new and a good deal stronger (spot welds wont hack such a repair, stitch welds have to be used. And a stitch welded firewall is much stronger) . You will also have to strip the interior completely. You are going to be in for a LOT of time and money, no two ways about it. I think Gen III RX-7's are now getting rare enough to justify the expense, I've noticed the uptick in prices that is signalling they are going to be worth a lot more in 10 years time. But you cant put a price on a car with an emotional attachment, so go for it anyway.
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Jul 26, 2016 00:34
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If money really isn't a concern hire the guy from project binky to rebuild the car.
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Jul 26, 2016 02:14
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Why hello fellow FB gu... OH NOOOOOOOO... Uhm. This is going to sound weird especially since I'm not local, but if you have trouble sourcing some parts, I'm willing to raid my parts car pile. Good luck. Also, would be grateful on hookups for tips on this since I'm ... not as bad off with my Miata project car, but advice from people who've done it would be nice.
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Jul 26, 2016 02:17
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mekilljoydammit posted:Why hello fellow FB gu... OH NOOOOOOOO... KaptainBallistik on Facebook. Or me. Lots of saw blades and welding gas stock required. Or I guess AMA here?
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Jul 26, 2016 02:41
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Holy poo poo. I'm convinced at this point that RX7s are harbingers of despair, whatever fleeting happiness they bring will just be torn from your soul.
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Jul 26, 2016 02:54
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1500quidporsche posted:Holy poo poo. The Mazda curse is well documented and peer-reviewed at this point, it's not just the RX line.
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Jul 26, 2016 03:04
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Do I dare ask what the mazda curse is?
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Jul 26, 2016 08:24
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That poor car.
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Jul 26, 2016 08:34
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Elmnt80 posted:Do I dare ask what the mazda curse is? Unintentional destruction, usually via dumbasses not seeing them.
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Jul 26, 2016 09:11
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Mazdas are too good and fun for this world.
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Jul 26, 2016 15:01
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Other party's insurance adjuster is coming out early next week to take a look at Giselle. They were taking their sweet time–over two weeks after the crash before they contacted my dad, whom they somehow put down on their claim as the vehicle owner–and there was no way in hell I was leaving the engine bay uncovered at the wrecking yard for that long... so we ended up having her professionally flatbed towed to the rental property, and I didn't even have to pay a cent (I love USAA). Because the other insurance company didn't bother doing the inspection when it was five minutes away from their office in Alabama, they get to make a three hour round trip to Pensacola instead. If they bitch about it, gently caress 'em, it's still my car at the moment (and will continue to be after their assessment, but I digress).Terrible Robot posted:literally let out a low, sad "noooooooo" as I scrolled down. Thanks for the condolences, and sorry to hear about your own FB. Mazdas really are too fun for this world. Seat Safety Switch posted:Poor baby Seeing the pictures of Sweet Chili Heat is actually what finally pushed me to stop wallowing in pity and make this thread, if you can believe it. InitialDave posted:If you can source one that's had a nasty rear-ender, I'd take all the front end metalwork off that and graft it on. That's kinda what I'd like to do, actually (or find one with a ton of rear quarter panel rust but a decent or good front clip). It would defeat the purpose if I found a straight, rust-free shell and just hacked it all up. Enourmo posted:The other issue is once you find someone who'd do the work, you might discover that it barely saves anything or even costs more than just finding a new clean, intact shell and swapping all your running gear over. Yeah, I realize that it'll probably be more cost-effective to find a new shell, but that kinda misses the point. If I absolutely have to, so be it, but I'm trying to think optimistically here. Also, tell your "buddy" that his comment made me even more determined to fix it, just to spite him  Sex Weirdo posted:If money really isn't a concern hire the guy from project binky to rebuild the car. This would be incredible, but I'm just going to assume that they'd still be busy working on their Mini GT-Four for the next decade. also lmao of course I need to worry about money, if I was actually a millionaire I wouldn't have even made this thread until the rebuild started mekilljoydammit posted:Why hello fellow FB gu... OH NOOOOOOOO... Now you know why I asked that question in your thread! And thanks for the offer, by the way. Out of curiosity, where are you located? You mentioned Road America in one of your posts and the picture of your backyard full of spare shells has snow... so Wisconsin? If only I still lived in Minnesota. CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Okay, yes it's fixable and maybe easier than you expect. You will need a front half cut to start out with and you will need to be extremely good with a welder. There's no getting out of it - you are going to have to do a cut n shut. You aint straightening the front rails without a drat good jig and puller, a lot of money and patience..... and even then it'll still most likely be twisted. This single post has given me the most hope so far, and I'm sure I'll have tons of questions for you and KaptainBallistik (I don't use Facebook, though). It made me even start reading up and watching videos on those different kinds of welding techniques–not because I'd be doing them myself, necessarily (highly unlikely), but simply to better understand what will need to be done. How long did the resurrection of that Galant take, assuming all the work was done in his spare time? By the way, the windshield is completely intact, and it took me a moment to understand what you meant by that... there's a sun shade in some of the pictures when the car was still at the wreckers' yard.
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Jul 29, 2016 05:36
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Aww man. That's rough. 
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Jul 29, 2016 06:40
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I am incredibly relieved to hear your father survived relatively unscathed. The FB was one of the highest production Rx-7's and due to that, and the pictured damage: I recommend purchasing a new shell/vehicle. As I'm sure you know, they can be readily found for inexpensive, needing minor repairs. The damage to your shell is extensive and not easily repaired without a more-than-significant time/money/tool investment. I have driven professionally repaired vehicles of the same damage and they have never driven the same. I'm sorry for your loss, but for the sake of your future safety (and enjoyment) it is simply outside the realm of reason to repair that chassis in my semi-pro opinion. Now, due to parts availability, I would recommend you save as much as you can from the existing shell. This requires time, tools, and storage, none of which I'm sure if you have. I personally would spend the extra time/money for a 84-85 GSL-SE if you can. They have the best of everything a first gen had to offer. While they cost nearly double a standard GSL, the upgrades are well worth it. It's Rob@ Pineapple Racing's perfered first gen. (I have a soft spot for the SA though, something about that late 70's, early 80's Japanese styling :drool:.) Some day I will own a SA/FB. Good luck sir and if you have any questions- just ask!
the spyder fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Jul 29, 2016 |
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Jul 29, 2016 07:31
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quote:but for the sake of your future safety (and enjoyment) it is simply outside the realm of reason to repair that chassis in my semi-pro opinion. 2007 -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWdPpHj07g0 2011 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTyeZoZA_D8 Sorry to be contrary in this case but literally repaired worse for better. Not saying it's easy or cheap (Reshell is the sane way to go becuase no two ways about it, it's going to be a godawful amount of work ad money) but it can be done and there's proof. MiniFoo posted:
Hearing the windshield was not broken says the most important thing in this case is more or less fine, being the firewall - This is incredibly important as to the scale of the repair. It took from memory about a year on and off, cost about 5 grand total, inc the half cut donor, the tools required, the supplies for the welders and also 2.5 grand for two days on a chassis jig / straightener. When KB, a mate and I started to strip it down - the following will give an idea just what you are in for and some of the things done.  - shortened, twisted and hammered up.   Here's a few pics of the car after it was jigged and some seam welding added.   Oh and another car we fixed  And some other random fixing pics http://alliancemotorsport.org/gallery/v/Marcus/Personal/Car+destruction+and+repair/Ironside/ Oh and fixing a rollover on my VR4    http://alliancemotorsport.org/gallery/v/Marcus/Personal/Car+destruction+and+repair/Ari/ That one was a pretty ugly job but the car is still about as a rally car and doign well. It's a bloody tank of a thing. GG wwe have fixed some random destruction over the last ten years......! And that's not half of it, we've replaced the rear quarter panels on the VR4's and KB's done the front rails etc to swap the PWRC car from 2004 to 2007. Annnnyway, your first step will be to strip everything off the shell forward of the B Pillar. No exceptions. Take a lot of pictures of all the damage and the firewall, interior and exterior. I'll poke my head under the bonnet of my RX7 this weekend to see where the welds will need to be unpicked / drilled out / stamped out to detach the front rails from the firewall. You are going to get very familiar with drilling out spot welds to say the least.... find something to practice on. Look, anything can be fixed and the repair can be better than new. But just making sure we're clear - you are in for a world of pain, work and cost. As much as a I disagree with the Spyder on how well it can be fixed, no two ways about it a reshell is the way to go. Your car tho and I understand why you want to do it - just know what you are in for. (I know I'm repeating myself on that point, believe me knowing the kind of work and detail involved I'd still do it in a heartbeat on my RX-7 or especially my "WRX", gently caress the cost and time. You cant put a price on a car you love) CAT INTERCEPTOR fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Jul 29, 2016 |
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Jul 29, 2016 12:36
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I'll have to read through CAT INTERCEPTOR's post at work, but first a quick question before I forget - is it just the upper framerails that are bent or are the lower ones bent too? It kinda looks like the lower framerails might have escaped damage because of going under the truck. If so, things become a lot easier. I'm in Wisconsin yeah; I might be able to help by coming up with a plan of action on where to cut to replace the damaged parts though. I found the collision repair manual for my Miata (but not an FB yet) and it gave me some ideas.
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Jul 29, 2016 12:51
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Plenty of available clean, rust free cheap Rx's in the south just start fresh man, it's a hell of a lot easier and you can do it more or less at your leisure once you have the two cars next to each other. Once you get all your parts on the new one it will feel like the same car, you might even be able to find the same color too.
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Jul 30, 2016 02:33
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Since this is Automotive Insanity, I vote fixing it or caging it. Not the sane choices, but gently caress it. The car has sentimental value. That means a lot to the truly mad. I'll enjoy watching Minifoo become the next 14 Inch as he tries to make the car 100% again.
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Jul 30, 2016 03:25
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If the bottom framerails are fine I'd totally go for rebuilding it - the top framerails and stuff are mostly just there to reinforce the shock towers and hold the fenders on, the bottoms are what everything critical to alignment bolts to. But I have a couple welders and know how to use them - I don't know where MiniFoo is on that sort of thing.
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Jul 30, 2016 13:52
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Sorry about the car dude, and sorry you Dad has to live in Pensacola now. Would have been nice to see a clean RX-7 around town instead of another ratted out Miata.
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Jul 30, 2016 17:11
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I literally said out loud "NO loving WAY" when I saw the first pic of Giselles nose under the truck. Awesome news that your dad is ok but man, I lost my 84 almost the same way, someone pulled out right in front of me and totalled my car. I cried as the tow truck pulled my broken old girl onto the flatbed. The other driver asked if I was ok and I said yea, Im just gonna miss my car :'( . I loved that car. I made this post before reading the replies. Hoping for good news...
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Jul 31, 2016 05:10
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Well obviously no work has been done at all, but I thought I'd at least update the thread. The other party's insurance adjuster came out to do their thing a few weeks back, but it wasn't until only a couple days ago that they got in contact with me and offered a monetary settlement. I didn't let the agent know this over the phone, of course, but I was actually surprised that the initial amount was much higher than I expected. I'm going to counter with a highball figure, however, showing them the amount of mechanical work I did to make the car better if necessary (hooray photo documentation). Basically, I'm trying to at least recoup the money that they're deducting for me buying it back, and if I can do that, I'll be alright with the outcome. That being said, I think I'm in a tight spot. In order for them to cut me a check, I need to fill out and send them a bunch of paperwork, as well as the title. They claimed they'll take care of re-branding it as a Florida salvage-rebuildable title (looks like there's no avoiding that), then hand it back over to me, but the process "can take a few weeks" according to the agent. There's a few problems with that, though: 1. My mom currently has the MS title in-hand, so she'd need to mail it to me first. 2. The MS registration is expiring/due for renewal on August 31st, and I can't simply register it for another year because technically (and literally) my parents no longer reside in Mississippi. I've just read through this entire document, and it sounds like I might be able to get through this situation without penalties if I'm careful. I should be able to apply for a Florida title, minus registration, and have it transferred to the insurance company (according to Section IV. A. 4.) until everything is finalized and they transfer it back (according to Section V. I.). Does anybody have any experience with these kinds of procedures, especially for Florida in particular?
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Aug 22, 2016 20:12
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Aug 22, 2016 20:31
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As much as you love the car - it is a huge amount of work and money to put into a project such as this, with no guarantee of the end result being as good as it used to be. With the added issues you mentioned, in your case I would buy it back and re-shell with a donor from one of the rust free states.
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Aug 22, 2016 22:18
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mekilljoydammit posted:I found the collision repair manual for my Miata (but not an FB yet) and it gave me some ideas. http://rx7.foxed.ca 1985 bodyshop manual under the first gen section. I bought it off eBay and paid way too much so I scanned it in and put it up there years ago. I wasn't overly impressed with it. Sorry to hear about your car. It hurt looking at those.
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Aug 23, 2016 07:40
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Sgt Fox posted:http://rx7.foxed.ca 1985 bodyshop manual under the first gen section. I bought it off eBay and paid way too much so I scanned it in and put it up there years ago. I wasn't overly impressed with it. That is depressingly awful - the Miata one is far better.
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Aug 23, 2016 14:53
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 If you had been driving over the speed limit, you would've passed that point before the truck even got there!
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Aug 23, 2016 16:18
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Mannnn that sucks, as some one that has sectioned a vehicle before (and one on a frame at that, so arguably easier) I would highly suggest finding a new shell. I also am available to rifle through my pile of FB parts too, although they are also in MN. Just parted out a 84 GSL last summer, so whatever panels were good I saved, mostly front end stuff...
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Aug 23, 2016 16:48
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