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Only stupid children believe that Donald Trump is anything like Hitler. You know, it seems with the majority of the West seeming to prefer Global Trumpism/Brexit over neoliberal IDPol, you'd better get used to the idea of having people like me as allies, or get used to losing. French and German elections coming up too! Any others this year? Italy? 
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Jan 16, 2017 08:46
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If you're left wing you should not be voting for the man who lives in a literal golden tower and whose platform is unfocused yet spiteful nationalism. If you do want to vote that you are not an ally, you are very definitely the enemy.
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Jan 16, 2017 08:47
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I didn't vote for him, and I would have voted communist or Jill Stein or written in Bernie or something. I just don't think he's any worse than what politicians in the west have been doing for years, decades. I mean they're loving monsters who murder people for profit and political expediency, and collaborate in making the poor poorer to give more to the rich. How is he any worse than them? How will he BE any worse than them in office, really? What could he possibly do worse? Also - The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and he sure is pissing off a lot of my enemies and it's fantastic to watch. He's won, might as well enjoy it. Why should I let it upset me when it's so entertaining, instead of spending my time on this earth happy and gleeful? The man makes quality hats, too. I've got a white on gold - PIMP. (that one goon was definitely right when he said I was a chav)
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Jan 16, 2017 08:51
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The Saurus posted:I didn't vote for him, and I would have voted communist or Jill Stein or written in Bernie or something. I just don't think he's any worse than what politicians in the west have been doing for years, decades. I mean they're loving monsters who murder people for profit and political expediency, and collaborate in making the poor poorer to give more to the rich. How is he any worse than them? How will he BE any worse than them in office, really? What could he possibly do worse? A great many things. Neoliberalism is bad, but there were far worse options before it co-opted both right and left. If you believe otherwise you really need to look at history. For the third time, if you want an alternative, you will not get it by sitting and doing nothing until election time rolls around. Voting is the least worthwhile political activity you can do. The Saurus posted:Also - The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and he sure is pissing off a lot of my enemies and it's fantastic to watch. He's won, might as well enjoy it. Why should I let it upset me when it's so entertaining, instead of spending my time on this earth happy and gleeful? If you are capable of being happy that people worse off than you and without your ability to gently caress off back to the UK whenever you want, are going to suffer, you are literal subhuman filth and you have absolutely no place in any leftist political organization.
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Jan 16, 2017 08:58
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I regularly volunteer my time to help people worse off than myself. This includes working at a soup kitchen in a poor black urban area, where we teach young kids kitchen skills so they can get jobs as well as feeding several hundred people in the community per day (and they let us volunteers take home some food too, which helps make up the cost of the bus fare for me). Unfortunately it's in a church rather than a leftist party or organisation - The nearest one of those was in a more expensive area in the city, much too far away and too expensive for me to get to. I also volunteer to help immigrants and people who want to immigrate from places like Syria and Lebanon where things are extremely poo poo and dangerous fill out their applications and give them advice about immigrating to the United States legally. And I applied to volunteer for Richard Wolff because I can't afford to go to Manhattan and pay $10 just to see him in person, and I'd love to contribute to his fantastic videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4gPXvW3DG4 There's only so you much you can achieve when you're constantly either working, looking for work, or fighting depression and addiction because you can't find meaningful work that allows you to afford to pay rent, bills and groceries (let alone healthcare coverage) or that lets you contribute to society in some way with your talents that gives you fulfillment.
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Jan 16, 2017 09:10
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real talk, how did you get the hate and avatar?
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Jan 16, 2017 09:15
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The Saurus posted:Only stupid children believe that Donald Trump is anything like Hitler. Could I, or someone, convince you to at least remain an advocate of multinational efforts to deal with climate change? While Trump's views on it after unclear and ill informed, Tillerson at least appreciates the problem. The world can get along fine with some more nationalism and trade protectionism, though I'm definitely not in favor of it myself. However, the globe is now (for the first time) dealing with something the free market and individual nations are uniquely ill equipped to fix because there isn't much short term economic incentive to do anything, especially if one country feels they will fall behind the others by implementing emissions reduction. I'm a scientist and desperately want to make this a nonpartisan issue, though it has also entered the culture war. We need global cooporation on climate change no matter what. I would sacrifice every other trade deal for this. e: may have misunderstood your position after seeing earlier posts. my point still stands to anyone heavily against globalism in this thread, though Convergence fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 09:17
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Trump spoke about the need to make the United States energy independent, and prepare for the future when fossil fuels are going to run out in a few decades time (which is an issue totally separate from climate change) and said he would support ethanol fuel for vehicles, and renewables of all kinds (which are now getting cheaper and are becoming competitive with fossil fuels). I don't think we need to worry about the end of the world (at least no more than we did before) Globalism is one of the biggest reasons for climate change and its acceleration! Instead of having people in the west produce things in their own countries, the raw materials are shipped from the country where that is cheapest, to the place where the components are manufactured, to the place where the components are assembled, and finally to the market where they will be sold. The amount of wasted fuel and the amount of pollution pumped into the atmosphere from not having communites and nations produce the goods for their consumption locally is devastating for the environment as well as those communities. The Saurus fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 09:24
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Grognan posted:real talk, how did you get the hate and avatar? The avatar is from my favourite red pill avatar, of which I was posting a few on SA a while back to mock MRA/Incel types or whatever they're called nowadays.   Someone bought it for me because there was a thread about sex and stuff and I spoke about the difficult of having sex with a woman with a small frame when you have an above average sized dongus. Quite frankly I'm a bit surprised no one bought me one in the past few days about how the Mexican stalker from south of the border trying to seduce my wife on facebook made me a Trump supporter. The Saurus fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 09:31
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You didn't answer my question. Do you agree that international collaborative effort is needed to effectively combat climate change given the economic (dis) incentives involved? And we're not going to run out of fossil fuels, which is part of the problem. Just the really cheap ones. https://www.google.com/amp/amp.livescience.com/37469-fuel-endures.html I see that you edited your post and added more about inefficient shipping, but that's beside the point. The damage is now done, and it's silly to think international shipping is actually going to drop enough to make a dent because of some tariffs. Good luck building electronics in northern Europe without chinese or american mined rare earths. Convergence fucked around with this message at 09:38 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 09:32
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The day that I can be surgically grafted into a rat king-like being by being composited with an Armenian gentile and a South Korean man who looks like if Donny Osmond got stuck in a vacuum chamber for a few hours will be the happiest and most fulfilling part of my life, having finally achieved the height of human cultural melange.
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Jan 16, 2017 09:36
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In that case, the only real thing that will cause us to change will be the cost of renewable energy and infrastructure falling below the the cost of fossil fuel derived energy and infrastructure. I'm not sure if that necessarily needs 100% international cooperation, though of course the more cooperation there is the better I don't think that getting cooperation on climate change is worth selling out the working and middle class of the world in trade deals that outsource jobs and let corporations sue governments in weaker foreign nations for reducing profits with minimum wage and union laws. It's in their interest just as much as ours to work to combat it. Convergence posted:You didn't answer my question. Do you agree that international collaborative effort is needed to effectively combat climate change given the economic (dis) incentives involved? If we're never going to run out of fossil fuels - Then how is it too late? We can't think "Well the damage is now done" surely - when we can just keep burning fossil fuels for another 200 years. There needs to be a fundamental change in how humanity lives - Including living in small apartments, using public transport or small cars, and not using aeroplanes and container ships/barges regularly. The Saurus fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 09:40
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OwlFancier posted:If you're left wing you should not be voting for the man who lives in a literal golden tower and whose platform is unfocused yet spiteful nationalism. I'd say both of these I bolded would be inaccurate. Accelerationists that are willing to vote Bernie are more of a weird kind of independent. Which is why we should be trying to get their votes.  But yes, also fighting back against the idea that voting Trump is a good idea itself. Even though I understand the frustration. Unless people really get stuck into primarying establishment types and forcing them to be answerable to the left we're just going to see the same holding pattern bullshit we're seeing. I know some people think it's good enough but it sure as poo poo is not. The position The Saurus has will only continue to grow unless the Democrats can make real change at the top. I mean Jesus gently caress there's someone in another thread (I think the election thread or donald trump piss party) defending Cory Booker because we have to stick together 4 years before the next election. That idea has to loving die. Forced unity under threat of Republicans can only hold for so long and will cause the fractures to become bigger all the while. Defend Cory if you think he's an actual good egg, but don't pull out unity. You can't force unity you have to earn it by convincing your coalition that you are actually allies or at least aligned enough ideologically to work together, and "none of us want Trump now do we" is not an ideology. EDIT: Also note that primarying does not need to mean you win the primary. Just trying to do it by itself should help raise their fear levels.
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Jan 16, 2017 09:43
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Thanks Higsian, I appreciate that. Honestly, just being talked to with a little bit of respect, kindness and empathy makes a huge amount of difference. Like instead of saying "Hey, you're a bad person, you're our enemy, how could you vote for Hitler 2.0!" and being like "Hey, I don't agree with the choice you made, but I can understand why you made it. And both of our options were terrible in 2016. Let's work together to hold his feet to the fire and FORCE him to make those concessions you wanted to see, and to make sure we have a better choice than Donald Trump next time around" One of the things I love about right now is that the Dems made Bernie Sanders the head of the budget committee, and he did that tweet print out thing and used other quotes to make Trump keep his word. I really hope Trump's desire to be loved let's Sanders push him towards some real populism with that tactic! It really seems like Sanders came out of this smelling of roses, he could be the most popular politician in America right now. Everyone on both sides of the aisle I've spoken to likes him except for two small groups - Hill Shills and rear end in a top hat FYGM wealthy Republican types who like Romney and Jeb! and Ted Cruz. The Saurus fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 09:48
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I agree that we should avoid destroying peoples livelihoods if possible. However, I brought up climate change as an example to illustrate that there are definitely globe-scale problems we need to deal with as a species and not just as nations. For instance, we could solve the problem faster if a large international community implemented a carbon tax which levels the playing field for all involved- probably necessary for such an oppressive and ubiquitous externality like carbon emissions. Climate change is intrinsically a globalist issue (we're going to kill off fishing communities, for instance, in which no one had even heard of climate change yet faces the consequences of the Wests actions http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/12/14/459404745/fish-stocks-are-declining-worldwide-and-climate-change-is-on-the-hook). I just hope at least some Trump supporters remember this. The world is a lot more complicated and fragile than the last time we tried heavy nationalism.
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Jan 16, 2017 09:54
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I absolutely agree with you, but I don't think there's any real hope of international cooperation on ANYTHING meaningful until capitalism is dealt with. Otherwise it's too easy for capital to move from nation to nation controlling weaker governments, dividing and ruling, buying elections and dictators all over the place. Worker's democracy is pretty much a requirement for true, progressive, positive globalism as well as effective international cooperation on climate change (industry/business is by far the biggest contributor to climate change. Effective regulations of them will never happen under capitalist governments that act on behalf of the rich and their business interests.
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Jan 16, 2017 09:59
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Furthermore once all the workers have a UBI and are guaranteed all the necessities of life, I'd be more than happy to bring over immigrants from other nations, from places like Central America and South America where they're basically facing terrorism from drug cartels and gangs, as well as the middle east. They should be brought in legally in an exchange, where they can learn skills and professions to benefit the USA if they choose to stay and apply for citizenship, or go home and help their fellow citizens in the spirit of international solidarity. This is like what countries like Cuba, Venuzuela, Bolivia do with each other and their doctors/teachers/students. We should definitely be improving relations with south and central America, and cooperating more with them. We just need to put a stop to illegal immigration and things like H1B visas until the fall of capitalism where the only purpose is to undercut wages and conditions for native workers to the benefit of the employers who can pull the strings. My wife is getting into a serious amount of debt for her Computer Science degree, and if she can't find a decent paying job because all of them have gone to people from abroad who are willing to take 1/2-1/3 what she is, we're pretty loving screwed. Since we're only just keeping afloat now, and she's about to come off her parents' insurance at the end of her degree - You have to start repaying your student loans several hundred dollars a month whether you find a job or not. The Saurus fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Jan 16, 2017 |
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Jan 16, 2017 10:09
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Convergence posted:I agree that we should avoid destroying peoples livelihoods if possible. However, I brought up climate change as an example to illustrate that there are definitely globe-scale problems we need to deal with as a species and not just as nations. For instance, we could solve the problem faster if a large international community implemented a carbon tax which levels the playing field for all involved- probably necessary for such an oppressive and ubiquitous externality like carbon emissions. Climate change is intrinsically a globalist issue (we're going to kill off fishing communities, for instance, in which no one had even heard of climate change yet faces the consequences of the Wests actions http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/12/14/459404745/fish-stocks-are-declining-worldwide-and-climate-change-is-on-the-hook). Following the globalist model the biggest breakthrough in solving the climate crisis, the big revolutionary set piece, after weeks of tireless negotiation, was for countries to sign an agreement to have " make any kind of plan to deal with climate change". So incredibly spineless... To think that there will be any strong consensus on climate change will just not happen, because it stands in the way of growth and making profits. Capitalism is incompatible with climate change, any and all reforms will be toothless. I think what "The Saurus" and i are feeling is that a putting band aids on open wounds is pointless, you have to solve underlying issues. Centrism while pleasant is simply letting underlying problems grow. A bunch of hidden factors that will eventually explode in our collective faces..
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Jan 16, 2017 10:56
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