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AI I need your help! My brother and I are having an argument. Since he's the engineer of the family I find myself second guessing my own judgment. From what I'm seeing there's two different kinds of prominent steel wheels for passenger cars (this question does not take trucks and SUVs into question!) in the marketplace. One that has a collar/lip and one that doesn't. Quick comparison:  We got into an argument about how they mount. I explained that they are lug-centric (often acorn style nuts, sometimes collared) and that when mounted they mount/press to the wheel hub. This either exposes the wheel hub if it's not collared, or if it is the collar rests on the wheel hub. Example:  He on the other end believes that there are cases where the steel wheel itself does not mate or touch the wheel hub, and that it's possible for no wheel hub to be exposed at all. So basically it's behind the opening of the wheel. Am I wrong on this? I understand his argument, but guess I always thought that all wheels sit against the hub. Any examples? Thank you!
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Feb 6, 2017 04:38
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For the most part, any wheel that comes on the car from the factory that's meant to be it's long term standard wheel will be hub-centric and have some sort of lip. In over 15 years I can't recall seeing one that wasn't that way. The open one you show above seems like a multi-use full-size temporary spare.
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Feb 6, 2017 06:40
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Joe Mama posted:For the most part, any wheel that comes on the car from the factory that's meant to be it's long term standard wheel will be hub-centric and have some sort of lip. In over 15 years I can't recall seeing one that wasn't that way. The open one you show above seems like a multi-use full-size temporary spare. Steel wheels are generally lug centric. I suppose if your in the south this aren't common at all. These are just examples of standard winter steel wheels. Sorry I should have specified.
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Feb 6, 2017 15:50
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howling_mad posted:He on the other end believes that there are cases where the steel wheel itself does not mate or touch the wheel hub, and that it's possible for no wheel hub to be exposed at all. So basically it's behind the opening of the wheel. howling_mad posted:Steel wheels are generally lug centric. I cannot recall the last time I saw a regular car wheel that wasn't hubcentric, the presence of tapered bolts/nuts is a bit of a red herring there. Some old stuff definitely is centred purely by the fasteners, but nowadays, I'd struggle to name any. The idea of lugcentric wheels being sold as a fitment for cars that are fitted as standard with hubcentric ones strikes me as an "it'll do" bodge that allows universal fitment based purely on PCD rather than the centre bore also.
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Feb 6, 2017 20:59
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Lugs are good at holding things together, not up. A lug is not made to resist sheering. Golf cart they are fine. 70 mph automobile, yikes. That multiwheel probably says 30 mph limit or something. If the hub does not fit, driving you should quit.
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Feb 6, 2017 21:49
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Elephanthead posted:Lugs are good at holding things together, not up. A lug is not made to resist sheering. Golf cart they are fine. 70 mph automobile, yikes. That multiwheel probably says 30 mph limit or something. If the hub does not fit, driving you should quit. Here are some 8x200 spacers for a 9000lb truck designed to haul another 4000lbs with nothing but lugs holding everything together! http://www.ebay.com/itm/8x200-WHEELS-SPACERS-ADAPTERS-8-Lug-Ford-F350-Dually-/380186575148 Does the truck beside you on the highway riding on the bumpstops have these bolted up? who knows!
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Feb 6, 2017 21:55
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InitialDave posted:I'm not sure what he means here. How can the wheel not touch the hub? Yeah no idea on the wheel not touching the hub. Maybe he's thinking some kind of spacer setup? I've never used them. PCD? From what I'm seeing most steel wheel lines have 20 ish versions with different bolt patterns and centerbore sizes. I personally am using oem which seems to be a pretty close fit, but I have acorn lugs which would help to center it up if it was more of a universal fit. They certainly aren't all specific. Elephanthead posted:Lugs are good at holding things together, not up. A lug is not made to resist sheering. Golf cart they are fine. 70 mph automobile, yikes. That multiwheel probably says 30 mph limit or something. If the hub does not fit, driving you should quit. Agreed, but Google shows that they are definitely a thing. For better or worse I guess.
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Feb 6, 2017 21:56
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Don't forget that, as with almost any assembly using threaded fasteners, the thing is actually held together by the clamped surface joint. Things like hub centres or tapered seats are for location, if you're asking them to act as the actual support of the load, something's probably wrong.howling_mad posted:PCD? InitialDave fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 22:03
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InitialDave posted:Don't forget that, as with almost any assembly using threaded fasteners, the thing is actually held together by the clamped surface joint. Things like hub centres or tapered seats are for location, if you're asking them to act as the actual support of the load, something's probably wrong. Very good point! Thanks for the info, learn something new everyday!
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Feb 6, 2017 23:08
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howling_mad posted:Thanks for the info, learn something new everyday! To allow themselves the largest market for a given PCD drilling, aftermarket wheels will often come with a centre bore of 70+mm, and you use spigot rings to reduce this to the correct size for your application.
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Feb 6, 2017 23:28
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There are rings you're supoosed to use with lug-centric wheels to fill in the space between the hole and the hub. Nobody uses them and big box stores don't install them. Fermented Tinal fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Feb 7, 2017 |
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Feb 7, 2017 01:54
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InitialDave posted:Many cars share a common PCD, but with a different bore on the hub centre. For instance, I have some Audi wheels with a 4x108 PCD. I have Ford wheels, also with a 4x108 PCD. But the Ford design uses a 63.4mm centre bore, and the Audi design 57.1mm, so although they're nominally the same, I cannot put the Audi wheels on my Ford, and if I put the Ford wheels on an Audi, the fit will be toward the wizard's sleeve end of the scale. Ah, you own a Focus or Fiesta I presume. The Fiesta ST has that same odd bolt pattern. I understand bore sizing, so that makes complete sense. Also you must be in the UK? We call them hub rings over here. They definitely make sense. Fermented Tinal posted:There are rings you're supoosed to use with lug-centric wheels to fill in the space between the hole and the hub. Absolutely. For steel wheels they're extremely uncommon.
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Feb 7, 2017 04:02
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Powershift posted:
Not seeing a DOT number on the part. https://www.google.com/search?q=whe...KHWuUAzQQsAQIJw
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Feb 7, 2017 15:22
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howling_mad posted:Ah, you own a Focus or Fiesta I presume. The Fiesta ST has that same odd bolt pattern. I understand bore sizing, so that makes complete sense.
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Feb 7, 2017 20:04
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Elephanthead posted:Not seeing a DOT number on the part. Would somebody really do that? just bolt something not DOT approved to their car?
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Feb 7, 2017 20:15
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Powershift posted:Would somebody really do that? just bolt something not DOT approved to their car? That sounds scandalous indeed. We should write our MPs and MPPs to tell them there needs to be some sort of inspection process to ensure that vehicles are safe to be on the road.
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Feb 7, 2017 21:55
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Powershift posted:Would somebody really do that? just bolt something not DOT approved to their car? Is this sarcasm? At least in the US, absolutely. 99% of things bolted to cars aren't dot approved.
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Feb 8, 2017 02:32
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howling_mad posted:Is this sarcasm? At least in the US, absolutely. 99% of things bolted to cars aren't dot approved. Sarcasm? me? nooooooo.
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Feb 8, 2017 02:37
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Powershift posted:Sarcasm? me? nooooooo. Haha.
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Feb 8, 2017 02:40
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I believe that is what we call  Greater than 50W headlights are illegal but I can buy 100W H4s just about everywhere here in the frozen wastelands of midwestern ontario. My greatest pet-peeve about driving is other people's headlights for a reason. The new fiberglass cab for my cruiser, any steel weld-on panels, and the aluminum bodies are all not approved for road use. As are the aftermaket frames. Literally every vehicle Icon builds is mostly not DOT-approved. E: Admittedly, most of that time that is due to the manufacturers not wanting to invest in the cost of getting approval. You'll see this on a lot of off-road parts too, even the stupid-heavyduty suspension poo poo. Fermented Tinal fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Feb 8, 2017 |
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Feb 8, 2017 02:44
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And here I thought all the HIDZ kits were somehow DOT approved for blinding the gently caress out of everybody for miles around including any aircraft flying overhead
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Feb 8, 2017 03:19
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Honestly, the problem isn't how bright they are, it's that nobody can loving aim headlights properly and brotruckers with block lifts are the worst for this.
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Feb 8, 2017 04:05
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counterpoint: about half the times I've had headlight rage the past year or so it's been those new facelifted LED-lit Corollas.
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Feb 8, 2017 04:11
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Shrugs Not Drugs posted:counterpoint: about half the times I've had headlight rage the past year or so it's been those new facelifted LED-lit Corollas. The LED headlights in the new ford pickups are holy gently caress off bright. If the superdutys squat like the old ones with a load on, they're going to damage people's vision.
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Feb 8, 2017 04:11
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What I want to know is what car has brake lights that are a single bar light across the middle of the car's rear end with an upside town trapezoid light underneath. I saw it the other night. As for led headlights being fuckoff bright, well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JVqRy0sWWY
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Feb 8, 2017 04:26
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Shrugs Not Drugs posted:counterpoint: about half the times I've had headlight rage the past year or so it's been those new facelifted LED-lit Corollas. gently caress YOU TOYOTA! Also gently caress Honda Civics and their blue dashes, and short throw for the headlight stock, and their inattentive drivers who always have their high beams on because they're just absolutely clueless.  I swear this headlight madness is going to make me go postal.
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Feb 8, 2017 04:46
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Fermented Tinal posted:What I want to know is what car has brake lights that are a single bar light across the middle of the car's rear end with an upside town trapezoid light underneath. 
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Feb 8, 2017 04:55
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Powershift posted:like this? I saw one like that but I think it was a Kia. It was a sedan and bright as hell.
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Feb 8, 2017 05:28
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As I've gotten older I've started getting more eye irritation from bright lights at night. All of these loving fucksticks with bright-as-gently caress lights not adjusted properly are loving killing me. The Lincoln and Ford SUVs are loving terrible. I want mirrors that cut bright lights. BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Feb 8, 2017 |
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Feb 8, 2017 05:39
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BlackMK4 posted:As I've gotten older I've started getting more eye irritation from bright lights at night. All of these loving fucksticks with bright-as-gently caress lights not adjusted properly are loving killing me. The Lincoln and Ford SUVs are loving terrible. Ironically, most ford and lincoln SUVs come with auto-dimming mirrors.
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Feb 8, 2017 05:46
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Powershift posted:like this? No, it was more like this:  And I think the vehicle was a sedan or a crossover, can't really recall because all I saw was the rear end.
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Feb 8, 2017 14:11
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It used to be very common for wheels to not be hub centric. Tighten the lugs carefully and the wheel is perfectly centered. My '66 Volvo doesn't even have hub pilots at all: With the advent of impact guns, the hub has become necessary to ensure wheel centering because of idiots who'd ram the first bolt down with the wheel slightly off center, and it'd be tight enough that the cones of the other nuts couldn't re-center the wheel. Also lug bolts have become more common, and a hub is absolutely necessary for cars with those. It's hard enough to get the wheel clocked right to start them while hanging on the hub.
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Feb 8, 2017 15:14
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The H1 hummer had ..for a short while, a one piece steel wheel option that was available as a downgrade from the usual 16 bolt 2 part double beadlock wheel which was lug centric like the military hmmwv wheels. The one piece steel wheel was hub centric and used flanged lugnuts. Unpopular wheel and design and didn't last long. [The QC sucked and many were out of round even more so than the military specials  ]Eventually, they got Hutchinson to make DOT legal double bead lock Aluminum wheels and steel stopped being an option. [They make similar wheels under the Rock Monster brand as the H1's now for other makes / models] 
Big K of Justice fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Feb 9, 2017 |
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Feb 9, 2017 07:09
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LloydDobler posted:It used to be very common for wheels to not be hub centric. Tighten the lugs carefully and the wheel is perfectly centered. My '66 Volvo doesn't even have hub pilots at all: Whoa. What kind of Volvo?
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Feb 10, 2017 04:10
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I think he has a 166 with a modernish turbo 5 cylinder? There's a thread about it in archives.
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Feb 10, 2017 05:07
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