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ironblock
Aug 23, 2013

Screw practicality, best 1 mile commute ever.
Boy, that line at Autozone ain't no joke!


...


But seriously. No, folks, you aren't dreaming, and this is not a test. It's time to begin again.


Who are you? What's going on?
Hello. My name is IronBlock. I have a Datsun. I've spent many years and many tens of thousands of dollars buying the wrong parts, getting scammed by losers and blowing up engines minutes before I wanted to drive somewhere.

This thread is a twisted kind of therapy, mixed with a splash of performance art. I chronicle the history and the now, the logic and the outrage. The Datsun is one of Plato's perfect Forms - inexpressible save for the shallow mimicry it visits upon our physical world. In Thread 2.0, we'll journey into the deepest, darkest reaches of my psyche. In Thread 2.0, we will see a Datsun drive.


Why is it "2.0"? Was there a "1.0"?

Yes, you can view it here.

Here's the tl;dr:

In June of 2010, I took delivery of a totally buttfucked Datsun and some parts. It looked like this:




By 2012, I had spent a bunch of time and a bunch of money tarting it up, then moved to the Cayman Islands and let it sit:




In 2014, I had an awesome stroker motor with motorcycle carbs. It ran real nice, despite my best efforts




The oil filter spun off during its maiden voyage and lunched the bearings. Since then, my Datsun has been home to at least four other engines - a variable that's in constant flux as all other aspects of car-hood have slowly congealed around the chassis.

Eventually, life got in the way and I stopped posting.


I feel like that dog in Furturama. I waited for you.

Oops.


You're just going to leave us hanging for months on end and blow up more engines, never achieving your stated goal or giving me any sense of closure.

If you're asking what the "subscribe" button looks like, I couldn't say. I'm not on this site a lot.


What's different now?

I have a great job at a company I really like. I have flexible hours. I live on the same ranch the Datsun lives on. I've decided that money is no object, and nothing short of my complete physical incapacitation, mental breakdown, or gruesome death will stop me from finishing this car the way I want it, as fast as humanly possible.

I'm also building a shop. :getin:


The Story Continues

As is thread tradition... To go forward, we must go back. Set your time machines for January of 2016.

As you may remember, the last thing I posted in the old thread was a boneheaded expose on my desperate attempt to use my dad's junk U20 as a stopgap motor.

It didn't work. :toot:




So it had to come back out.





Now I had an empty engine bay (again), and needed something to put in it.

As we well know, I'm 0 for 1 on engines I've rebuilt, and like... 0 for 4 on "I'll just take this random piece of poo poo and install it, what could go wrong!"

"So," I reasoned, "I just have to find an engine that's already running and then not gently caress it up."

If only I knew some kind of sick, compulsive Datsun-collecting psychopath who'd never notice an engine missing from one of his many, many cars.

Oh wait. :v:


In Which IronBlock Robs Peter to Pay Paul

Those with especially good memories may recall that I randomly bought another crappy '67 Roadster sometime around this time. It was no accident. While the interior was butchered and the car itself had a general atmosphere of "road hazard" about it, the original engine ran great.




For perhaps the first time, I reasoned accurately that most of my woes had come from changing/restoring/replacing every single part of the car at once. I therefore had zero ability to accurately identify what was screwing me in a given moment until, well, it had.




Stealing Borrowing a good running engine from another car allowed me to rule out more troublesome aspects of my previous configuration.




I was determined at this point to turn over a new leaf. There's only so much self-directed schadenfreude a person can withstand before they have to make changes. I'm not sure I'd recommend "ruining all your poo poo constantly" as the right way to mature and gain a better understanding of oneself, but... well... hope springs eternal.



Naturally, as my car was set up for a 5-speed, I decided to leave that alone, especially given my intent was to drive five berjillion miles to the Roadster show at Mt. Shasta, CA.

Oh, did I mention that the impetus for this was a Roadster show? There's always a Roadster show.

Why do all previous owners paint the engine Chevy orange?




And they wait until all the accessories are on, too.




Clutch and flywheel looked pretty good. I'm usually not the kind of crazy person that saves them, but this seemed like something I might need later.




Hastily, I re-accessorized the engine with my known good parts. Flywheel, distributor, new :siren: NISSAN :siren: oil filter, starter.




Since I was set up for an electric fan, I decided to keep it, and not try to back-convert that either. Yes, definitely turning over a new leaf.




And in she went.





Loose Threads
In early 2016, I was still in machine shop hell. The rebirth of my 2.0L stroker into a 2.3L super-stroker had vexed the otherwise competent (but very goddamn slow) machine shop I like to use.

Keep an eye out for updates in that area. Let's just say that I've finally got something other than "soul-rending disappointment" in store. :smuggo:

NEXT TIME: IronBlock has installed yet another engine in the Datsun of Doom! Will it explode immediately, or will it wait a few miles? DON'T TOUCH THAT DIAL!

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Seat Safety Switch
May 27, 2008

MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.

Pillbug
Is it going to explode?

:f5:

Beverly Cleavage
Jun 22, 2004

I am a pretty pretty princess, watch me do my pretty princess dance....

Seat Safety Switch posted:

Is it going to explode?

:f5:

of course it will!
:f5:

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005

Omfg bookmarked. Welcome back!

Poisonlizard
Apr 1, 2007
Yay, it's back!
Will be watching.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
Yay!

Terrible Robot
Jul 2, 2010

FRIED CHICKEN
Slippery Tilde
Welcome back, I've been missing your prose and the Datsun. Fived and subscribed so fast.

Maksimus54
Jan 5, 2011
Earlier this week I was wondering where the hell this thread went. Good luck! Whats the upgrade plan for after this motor blows up?

Ups_rail
Dec 8, 2006

by Fluffdaddy
So how long has/till you get your stroker motor back from the machinist?

also I dont mean to pry but how much have you spent on this project?

Mariana Horchata
Jun 30, 2008

College Slice
Nice, my brother also has a Datsun problem and has been casually restoring a '73 240Z that we found sitting with a for sale in between a fireworks store and a trailer park in Seabrook, NH from a man who looked exactly like a fat, middle-aged Kurt Vonnegut (along with a Lita Ford cassette found inside and a faded 'sticks and stones may break my bones but chains and whips excite me' bumper sticker ;) ) .

Naturally, it's still in the body work stage and was sent to Rhode Island a year or so ago to have somebody else finish that off due to loss of storage (and limited time with waning ambition)...but once that's complete it has a S54 engine ready to go along with everything else to make it work and drive-able once everything is reassembled - so maybe, just maybe it will finally be on the road this Summer (I doubt it).

At least it's an excellent choice for a restoration though...especially in MA where these cars are practically non-existent. Actually I've had to talk him down from abandoning it a few times whenever a Roadster or heaven forbid a 510 showed up on local craigslist.





I think the end game has been to have it look exactly like this once complete (with same colour paint, wheels, flairs, mirrors, and of course the G-nose).



:vince:

Good luck OP, I missed the last thread but I'll be following this one.

Seat Safety Switch
May 27, 2008

MY RELIGION IS THE SMALL BLOCK V8 AND COMMANDMENTS ONE THROUGH TEN ARE NEVER LIFT.

Pillbug

Mariana Horchata posted:

Nice, my brother also has a Datsun problem
There are no Datsun problems, only Datsun solutions.

A fixation on G-noses is a bit of a problem though.

ironblock
Aug 23, 2013

Screw practicality, best 1 mile commute ever.

Maksimus54 posted:

Earlier this week I was wondering where the hell this thread went. Good luck! Whats the upgrade plan for after this motor blows up?

It only has to tide me over until the hour of the Super Stroker (which will be assembled with maximum care and triple-checking).



Seat Safety Switch posted:

A fixation on G-noses is a bit of a problem though.

I like G-noses. :colbert:

Project after this is likely going to be a DOHC S30 based around this guy's head: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/119641-twin-cam-head-for-the-l6-from-derek-at-datsunworks/



Ups_rail posted:

also I dont mean to pry but how much have you spent on this project?

I don't actually know. It's a lot. Estimate that just about any "major" thing you want to do to a car costs ~$1000. Suspension kit, 5-speed transmission set, engine rebuild, etc. Consider then that there are 10-30 of those things on a car (not all of which are mandatory), and that things like labor cost money but don't always make it onto the spreadsheet. There's also the uncountable money that you blow $20-50 at a time buying hardware, shop towels, carb cleaner etc.

I did try to make one, once. A spreadsheet. It was a few years ago, and I was easily able to climb over $20k. I'd estimate it's closer to $30k today, but slowing down as I run out of things to buy. The last big ticket items I could concievably spend money on are an OS Giken LSD ($1800), and maybe a transmission rebuild ($1500).

To give you some context, here's what I bought today:

pre:
Name                                      Price      Qty
Side Molding Clip Set                     $44.00      1
Wiper blades                              $29.00      1
Glove Box Kit                             $49.00      1
Water temperature sender w/ Metric nut    $26.00      1
U20 Fuel Pump                            $148.00      1
Fuel Tank Sending Unit O-Ring              $4.00      1
Gas cap rubber gasket                      $5.00      1
160˚ Thermostat                           $13.00      1
Freeze Plug Kit                           $25.00      2
Timing Set                               $209.00      1
Roller Rockers                           $520.00      1
5 Speed Gasket Kit                        $79.50      1
Fuse Box Cover                            $79.00      1
Door Stop Rubber                          $15.75      1
Red Doe Skin Vinyl                        $36.95      1
Oil Pressure Sending Unit                $111.00      1
Add in tax, shipping, and a $250 core charge on the rocker assy, and you're looking at ~$1700 in parts. So, resto-modding a car like this basically ends up being one or two dozen orders like that, spread out over 3-5 years.

In other words, in terms of monthly outlay, it's broadly comparable to buying a 124 Spider with no money down and a 5 year loan (except that the Fiat would have a warranty (which it would need)).

In other, other words, it shouldn't surprise you that my other hobby is retro gaming. :retrogames:

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


Ups_rail posted:

also I dont mean to pry but how much have you spent on this project?
This is something best never looked at or added up...or even thought about. It's a sure way to make you cry then realize it would have been WAY cheaper to buy something already done or take up all the drugs as a hobby.

ironblock posted:

In other words, in terms of monthly outlay, it's broadly comparable to buying a 124 Spider with no money down and a 5 year loan (except that the Fiat would have a warranty (which it would need)).
Never thought about it that way, that makes it even worse. I could be driving and/or leasing one hell of a nice car for what I've thrown at projects in the last few years.


Good to see the thread back and progress being made. Things will be much easier now that you don't have to fly across the country to work on it.

ironblock
Aug 23, 2013

Screw practicality, best 1 mile commute ever.
Well, the other way to look at it is that anyone could go out and buy that Spider, and it would have poo poo like the blind spot beepy system that they might not want.

When you restore a car, you have something that ONLY you could have built, and everything is (hopefully) tailored to your exact tastes. If you've replaced everything with new, it should hopefully be as reliable as it ever was. If that's cost-competetive with a low-end, mass-market sports car, I'd say that's actually a bargain.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull

NitroSpazzz posted:

Never thought about it that way, that makes it even worse. I could be driving and/or leasing one hell of a nice car for what I've thrown at projects in the last few years.

The trick is to DIY enough stuff that you can maintain the self-delusion you aren't spending that much money, by ignoring how much time you're spending and how much money you're spending on tools and stuff.


... and now I'm thinking about it. Time to drink until I forget!

Additionally:

ironblock posted:

Project after this is likely going to be a DOHC S30 based around this guy's head: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/119641-twin-cam-head-for-the-l6-from-derek-at-datsunworks/

I might or might not be starting along the path of doing something like that for the Subaru shortblock. It is a mystery. :D

mekilljoydammit fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Mar 16, 2017

Somewhat Heroic
Oct 11, 2007

(Insert Mad Max related text)



Welcome back! This thread will fill the Datsun shaped hole in my heart that has been missing since you last left us. I would love to take on a project like this at one point in life. Threads like these keep me grounded from doing something dumb.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.
Found this today:



:toot:

ironblock
Aug 23, 2013

Screw practicality, best 1 mile commute ever.
I approve.

charliemonster42
Sep 14, 2005

ironblock posted:

I did try to make one, once. A spreadsheet. It was a few years ago, and I was easily able to climb over $20k. I'd estimate it's closer to $30k today, but slowing down as I run out of things to buy. The last big ticket items I could concievably spend money on are an OS Giken LSD ($1800), and maybe a transmission rebuild ($1500).

To give you some context, here's what I bought today:

pre:
Name                                      Price      Qty
Side Molding Clip Set                     $44.00      1
Wiper blades                              $29.00      1
Glove Box Kit                             $49.00      1
Water temperature sender w/ Metric nut    $26.00      1
U20 Fuel Pump                            $148.00      1
Fuel Tank Sending Unit O-Ring              $4.00      1
Gas cap rubber gasket                      $5.00      1
160˚ Thermostat                           $13.00      1
Freeze Plug Kit                           $25.00      2
Timing Set                               $209.00      1
Roller Rockers                           $520.00      1
5 Speed Gasket Kit                        $79.50      1
Fuse Box Cover                            $79.00      1
Door Stop Rubber                          $15.75      1
Red Doe Skin Vinyl                        $36.95      1
Oil Pressure Sending Unit                $111.00      1

Add in tax, shipping, and a $250 core charge on the rocker assy, and you're looking at ~$1700 in parts. So, resto-modding a car like this basically ends up being one or two dozen orders like that, spread out over 3-5 years.

In other words, in terms of monthly outlay, it's broadly comparable to buying a 124 Spider with no money down and a 5 year loan (except that the Fiat would have a warranty (which it would need)).

In other, other words, it shouldn't surprise you that my other hobby is retro gaming. :retrogames:

This is where I am with my e30. I'm giving up on my 24v swap (because CA smog) and am going to build a 2.8l m20 and the dollar signs are depressing :smith:

Mat_Drinks
Nov 18, 2002

mmm this nitromethane gets my supercharger runnin'

mekilljoydammit posted:

The trick is to DIY enough stuff that you can maintain the self-delusion you aren't spending that much money, by ignoring how much time you're spending and how much money you're spending on tools and stuff... and now I'm thinking about it. Time to drink until I forget!

This pretty much sums things up from me :haw:

Glad to see you back with a thread though!

I should probably stop being an rear end in a top hat and start another thread too. It'll be my third?!

Mat_Drinks fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Mar 18, 2017

ironblock
Aug 23, 2013

Screw practicality, best 1 mile commute ever.
I always underestimate how long it's going to take me to write one of these posts. Yes, I realize the irony in that. Boy takes a long time to post, boy takes a long time to fix a Datsun. Har har.

It's always a fragile balance, though, isn't it? Call it anecdotal all you want, but it's been my experience that in any field of endeavor, the person who gets cocksure and thinks that they either know everything (wrong) or they know 100% of what they don't know (also wrong) is going to end up completely blindsided by reality.

I mean, how often are you screwed over by something you saw coming? Certainly not the majority of the time.

And now, dear goon, I sense that you'd like me to stop stalling and tell you if the engine blew up.


Here is a cat instead




Mr. Kitty likes to help. He likes to hide under cars you're about to start. He likes to sit on your head while you're lying on the ground. He does not blow up any Datsun engines, he is a good catte.


Disaster Averted

But seriously, folks. This is the Datsun Engine Destruction thread, and I'm here to deliver the carnage.

Remember the junk U20 I spent a shitload of time prepping to run? I tore it down, just to see if its eccentricities extended past a light watersports fetish.

Boy, did they ever. :haw:





At some point during this whole debacle, my dad bought his 67.5, so it seemed only right that I continue breaking down his U20 and get it to the machine shop.




While I was there, I checked in on an old friend...




Still waiting patiently for its turn in the sun.

But, they told me they were waiting for the crank grinder... So I went to see him, just as he conveniently just so happened to finish offset grinding my crank right when I showed up and asked about it.




So I brought it back to the machine shop, and told 'em to get a move on.




On the Subject of Automotive Professionals

Independent garages, insurance-driven autobody, and major brand dealerships. Those are the three types of professional automotive entities that are at all capable of scoping out work and finishing it in a timely manner.

Anything else, and all bets are off. That shop doing your engine swap? They'll have your car for a year and won't finish anyways. Previous owner slam jam'd your wiring harness, but this guy on "The Forums" does wiring? You'll never see the car again. Somebody has a buddy who paints cars? Call the cops today, he's pushed it into the back corner and is gonna dodge your calls until the heat death of the universe.

What I'm trying to say is that anybody who does custom work is accepting every job they've ever heard a whisper of, and they finish them in the order of whoever shows up and bugs them most often. Not "first in, first out". Get that silly notion out of your head.

On a good day, with no traffic, I'm 45 minutes and bridge toll away from the shop that was working on my engine. I couldn't afford to drop in on them ad hoc, so it took a REALLY LONG TIME to get my engine finished. In the end, I carved out some time that should have been vacation, and used it exclusively to call, drive, and pester everybody who had any of my poo poo. In the end, it took about two weeks to get everything finished, but I really had to make them sick of seeing me.

The only way to avoid this problem is to do all your own work, but that's a different kind of hell.


The Loaner R16

So, did the engine blow up?




Nope. Well, not yet...




Naturally, it was incredibly lean. The stock exhaust in these cars is like a bendy straw, and my 2.25" pipe was much less restrictive.

So, after some light SU tuning, the loaner engine ran great.

But, not everything was perfect. As you could see in that video, my oil pressure gauge still didn't read. I figured "bad crimp on the sender lead" or "dirty sender" were the most likely culprit.




Sadly, neither one did the trick. Disgusted, I sorted through my box of spares until I found a 240Z sender. It's a completely different design, but the bullet connector was threaded, so...







:shepface:


Getting Road Ready

There were a few things left to do to get the car road ready. For one thing, I needed horns. The Datsun Roadster is smaller than a first gen Miata, and sometimes defensive driving isn't enough.

I found these cute little Densos on eBay for :20bux:.




Totally not original, but they fit in the stock location and make a lot more noise. :toot:

With the oil gauge functionality "repaired", I checked the others. Tach and speedo worked. Ammeter and fuel gauge both worked properly.




But coolant temperature... Not so much.

The sensor was dead, so I tried to remove it.






gently caress. :v:

But, well, since that was really the last thing... I got to thinking about how bad it would be, I mean, really... for me to drive the car on the road with no temp gauge.

Oh boy.


NEXT TIME: IronBlock tries to convince the California DMV that the Datsun last seen in 1994 is not stolen or broken, and that one license plate is fine.

Leper Go-getter
Nov 7, 2010
I'm not great with cars but i think a temp gauge is a thing cars should have.

Looking forward to the next update, hopefully just 2 months from now!!

NitroSpazzz
Dec 9, 2006

You don't need style when you've got strength!


ironblock posted:

On the Subject of Automotive Professionals
Independent garages, insurance-driven autobody, and major brand dealerships. Those are the three types of professional automotive entities that are at all capable of scoping out work and finishing it in a timely manner.
...
The only way to avoid this problem is to do all your own work, but that's a different kind of hell.
At some point you would think we would learn that having friends that own shops work on things isn't in our best interest. ~6 months wasted on the E21, almost at two months waiting on engine/transmission mounts.

ironblock posted:

But, well, since that was really the last thing... I got to thinking about how bad it would be, I mean, really... for me to drive the car on the road with no temp gauge.
Oh boy.
Some people never learn

RIP Paul Walker
Feb 26, 2004

NitroSpazzz posted:

At some point you would think we would learn that having friends that own shops work on things isn't in our best interest. ~6 months wasted on the E21, almost at two months waiting on engine/transmission mounts.

Speaking as someone who has a shop and sometimes works on things for friends, I agree 100%. It's not malicious (at least in my case) but it sure is true about the timeframe.

ironblock
Aug 23, 2013

Screw practicality, best 1 mile commute ever.
There's a practicality aspect of it, too. I don't really plan on grinding my own cams, decking my own heads, or polishing my own cranks. It would take me longer, and would probably cost more (time plus money) overall.

Now, fabbing my own exhaust... That seems like a good time.

mekilljoydammit
Jan 28, 2016

Me have motors that scream to 10,000rpm. Me have more cars than Pick and Pull
Proper cam grinding is impressively precise. The just-good-enough cam analyzer I have at work reads lobe lift in the millionths of an inch.

Preoptopus
Aug 25, 2008

Три полоски,
три по три полоски
Lol The temp Guage. How is it every little thing you tinker with ends up crumbling in your hands?! I must say glad to see your back. Exhaust fab is one of my favorite things to do at work. I'm guessing you don't have a hydrolic pipe bender tho.

Ups_rail
Dec 8, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

RIP Paul Walker posted:

Speaking as someone who has a shop and sometimes works on things for friends, I agree 100%. It's not malicious (at least in my case) but it sure is true about the timeframe.

With out writing a novel I have a old toyota, in a shop getting rebuilt. The old 22RE's are great engines. Anyway the machine shop gets the engine back to them, but there was need for a new transmission, and they got the wrong one. I call here and there, and now I go everyweek. I could see the engine on the stand, and for two weeks no work had been done. I spoke with the tech and politely said I understand it gets done when it gets done, but I have people leaning on me about this so now everyweek I am gonna have to swing by and talk to him just so I can say I went by and spoke to them.

I dont bother asking about time frame, I didnt bat an eye when he talked about how there was only one other tech and there are "big jobs" I just let him know that I would be seeing him next week.

ironblock
Aug 23, 2013

Screw practicality, best 1 mile commute ever.

Preoptopus posted:

How is it every little thing you tinker with ends up crumbling in your hands?!

Well, in my defense, this engine was rebuilt by some idiot an unknown number of years ago, and the temp sender they used was the most fantastically cheapass Chineseium I've ever seen. I hit it with penetrating oil, let it sit overnight, got a snug fit with a good socket, and used some light hammer action to try and shock it free. It groaned, it budged, and then turned into shrapnel. Sometimes there's nothing you can do.

It's also the case with a TON of this Datsun stuff that the parts in question were terrible when new. They were bad designs, and the new reproductions are usually worse than NOS, but you can't find NOS anymore. The good news is that every Datsun model has a skeleton list of parts that don't break, and it tends to be that the engines, drivetrain, and brakes are what keep going. In other words, best of luck replacing the three thousand cracked vacuum lines in the ~ Auto ~ Temp Control in your 280ZX. :shepicide:

I still love the S130 though


Ups_rail posted:

The old 22RE's are great engines.

They ARE great engines. There's a '86 4Runner Turbo sitting on my local CL, and I'm so sorely tempted to go grab it up. So many cars, so little time.


Ups_rail posted:

I just let him know that I would be seeing him next week.

Sadly, that's what it takes. I budget all my future projects around this need, and pick the geographically closest shop capable of doing the work.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010



ironblock posted:

In other words, best of luck replacing the three thousand cracked vacuum lines in the ~ Auto ~ Temp Control in your 280ZX. :shepicide:

[Ask] me about a 280ZX after a decade in the Albuquerque sun :qq:

kastein
Aug 31, 2011

Moderator at http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/and soon to be mod of AI. MAKE AI GREAT AGAIN. Motronic for VP.
If you somehow don't have enough broken Datsuns, or need a partially broken Datsun to haul Datsun parts around in for your more-broken Datsuns, I might happen to have a 720 pickup for sale (still), only 3000 miles away. The price is right, and adjustable to almost any dollar amount that will convince you to come buy it.

I think it's in better shape than your roadster was when you got it, too. It will even run if we clean the gunky gas out of the tank, put a new slave cylinder and battery on it, and turn the key. I'm not going to allow you to be the one turning the key though, I know better than that. :haw:

Glad to see you back, your murdering of newly rebuilt and/or installed engines makes me feel a lot better about my occasional engine murdering, and you do really really topnotch beautiful work on anything that isn't related to keeping an engine alive.

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the spyder
Feb 18, 2011
You know you want this: https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/6101664259.html

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