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So I just finished the show and after reading this thread over and seeing everyone else's reactions, I don't understand how theres so much praise for how the show handled anything at all really. The show was definitely getting worse towards the end as more things are revealed. I felt like the show wasn't going to be able to deal with how everything converged at the end and then they just kept throwing in more and more crazy poo poo happening.Of course Jeff died, of course Justin lives with a psycho meth dealer, of course they plant weed on Clay's backpack, of course Tyler starts to stock up on guns and will probably end up shooting the school and of course Alex shoots himself. Like come on man, a lot of it was just lovely writing and ultimately playing into that fantasy of making these revenge tapes so finally some justice can be done. I do agree that they handle some things well and how they depict school. It sucks so hard and people are very lovely sure. But the situations kept escalating to the point of exaggeration. Which would be fine if people were treating what this show really is instead of praising it as "the one good teen drama about suicide." It was way too cute, especially any time an indie sad song played over a conversation. Its entertaining and gripping at times, but goddamn they don't stick the landing. They leave poo poo wide open and pull a classic Netflix season finale where there will obviously be a second season. They don't make good on a lot of these plot threads and just feels like the last episode didn't happen except for that confrontation with the counselor (which was the loving worst, like come ON man lmao. OF COURSE finally we will have Clay give out his form of justice I guess. Go to the loving authorities instead you rear end in a top hat lmao). Honestly I only kept watching because of the addicting/compelling format. You focus on a new character each episode and they develop them well. The writing was just loving awful, spotty acting (Tony for the most part but others were bad too) and just having the plot go off the rails by the end.
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May 23, 2017 02:27
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| # ? May 4, 2024 13:59 |
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The REAL Goobusters posted:they don't stick the landing. This was the first phrase that popped into my head when the credits rolled. Despite that, I enjoyed the hell out of this series. I thought the cast was great from top to bottom. Alex wound up becoming one of my favorites and I really enjoyed him going around the table and summarizing everyone in a sentence. Him shooting himself was stupid and felt like a really contrived SHOCKING TWIST moment that failed miserably. I would have liked to see everything tied up more neatly. People going off to jail, people getting fired, outcome of court case, etc. However, I can see how that could be seen as validating her choice so I guess it's for the best. I'm really stupid and cheezy and I would end the show like this: Justin/or camera boy try to shoot Bryce and in chaos Clay accidentally gets shot, fatally. As he fades he out he is back at the dance with Hannah and it looks and sounds like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdKowGkxAgw. Credits roll. No season two. It would have put the two of them together in a way that didn't involve more suicide.
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May 29, 2017 21:58
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Just finished the show yesterday. Show was okay. I'm still baffled as to Why the other kids who were just sorta mean to Hannah were so worried about it "ruining their lives." Like being a little aggressive with a girl and touching her leg during a date, stealing some notes from a bag and sorta being a dick and not hanging out with a girl anymore, aren't going to affect your scholarships or have you arrested or some poo poo. Yet for some reason the kids are willing to go to insane lengths to try and cover it up. The show also seriously dragged with Clay not just finishing the loving tapes and having him yell "tell me" to tony for the 12th time got old. Also jesus the second season better be like 3 episodes.
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Jun 7, 2017 16:20
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Monaghan posted:Just finished the show yesterday. Show was okay. I'm still baffled as to Why the other kids who were just sorta mean to Hannah were so worried about it "ruining their lives." Like being a little aggressive with a girl and touching her leg during a date, stealing some notes from a bag and sorta being a dick and not hanging out with a girl anymore, aren't going to affect your scholarships or have you arrested or some poo poo. Yet for some reason the kids are willing to go to insane lengths to try and cover it up. The show also seriously dragged with Clay not just finishing the loving tapes and having him yell "tell me" to tony for the 12th time got old. They're all either rapists, perpetrators of sexual assault, guilty of manslaughter (arguable), or accomplices after the fact. They're all hosed.
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Jun 7, 2017 17:18
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Open Source Idiom posted:They're all either rapists, perpetrators of sexual assault, guilty of manslaughter (arguable), or accomplices after the fact. They're all hosed. Except not really. 1. Justin- took a photo of her panties and spread it around. Also spread rumors. Probably some form of sexual assault, depending on the state. Also didn’t stop a rape. Interesting question of whether he was an accomplice so I’ll let it slide. 2. Jessica- rape victim. Jessica blames Hannah for Alex breaking up with her. Not a crime. 3. Alex- put Hannah on a list for best rear end. 4. Tyler- took a photo of them kissing without their consent. Same crime as Justin. 5. Courtney- lied about being in a photo, sort of threw Hannah under the bus. Not a crime. Guess she’s worried about dad finding out being a lesbian. 6. Marcus- grabbed her leg. Hannah pushed him off. I don’t think this count’s as a sexual assault. 7. Zach- stole notes. He wouldn’t be charged with this, maybe disciplined from the school. It’s arguable whether or not the notes are even Hannah’s property. 8. Ryan- stole a poem. Misdemeanour at best would likely not be charged. Manslaughter requires significant criminal negligence. Basically the person has to commit an action that could objectively cause serious harm someone. None of that stuff even comes close. None of this stuff is “life ruining” It would show them to be assholes, but it’s not like they wouldn’t get to college or whatever. The only two guys who should be seriously worried are Justin and Tyler and perhaps Marcus, though I highly doubt it. Also just because you heard someone on a tape say " I got raped by ______" does not automatically mean you have to report it. The kids just seem to be completely irrational on this one. Monaghan fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jun 7, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 17:54
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I've said it before in this thread - The fact that the villains weren't really that bad, and the worst offender wasn't even on the list, is one of the reasons the show really resonated with me. It gets a lot of poo poo for "romanticizing suicide" and showing how "suicide is a good way to get revenge", but ultimately it's a story of a SEVERELY mentally ill girl who didn't reach out for help even when an arm was dangling above her. I'm not spoiling stuff because it's done at this point, but the 13th tape really showed how committed she was to doing it. She said "Maybe the counselor will save me today, maybe he'll be the one to change my mind" - yet she took the tapes and razor blades before she even went to see him, and had the recorder running. Yes, the counselor did a poo poo job and should have taken her more seriously. But I think the show did a good job of portraying that he was on edge, his wife was about to give birth (and honestly my takeaway was that the urgent calls during his Hannah session was his wife going in to labor and he had to drop everything to get to her). Again, the allegations of rape should NOT have been ignored and he should lose his job, but he was distracted and sitting in front of him was a girl who was "known for drama". My ultimate takeaway of the show is "holy poo poo high school is terrible now thank you social media" because I was bullied like crazy in school but at least that ended as soon as the bell rang. I do not want a second season - none of these stories need extended. But hey, America.
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Jun 7, 2017 18:26
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Medullah posted:I've said it before in this thread - The fact that the villains weren't really that bad, and the worst offender wasn't even on the list, is one of the reasons the show really resonated with me. It gets a lot of poo poo for "romanticizing suicide" and showing how "suicide is a good way to get revenge", but ultimately it's a story of a SEVERELY mentally ill girl who didn't reach out for help even when an arm was dangling above her. Yeah, this. The show put's this huge responsibility on the bullying when the reality is she was a mentally ill person who wanted to kill herself. The bullying was a factor, but to portray it as black and white as they do is disingenuous. The thing that irked me most about this show is that people who commit suicide have been known to be emotionally isolated, attention starved, and subsequently emotionally manipulative toward family members and friends before the fact, guilt tripping them into feeling responsible for their suicide. Feeling unloved they try to prompt feelings of sympathy and regret in others by saying things like "oh yeah? Well, you'll be sorry when I kill myself!". And this show just feeds that, sending a message that says "killing yourself is a great way to get attention for yourself and payback against those lovely kids you hate at your high school because after you're dead you'll get lots of attention and have candle light vigils in your honor, while the people you hate will suffer in guilt-ridden agony and have their lives ruined from shame." It's a message that feeds into the feelings of lack of attention and sympathy, emotional isolation, and spite that are often accompanied by mental illness, self-harm, and suicidal tendencies. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jun 7, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 21:22
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-Blackadder- posted:Yeah, this. The show put's this huge responsibility on the bullying when the reality is she was a mentally ill person who wanted to kill herself. The bullying was a factor, but to portray it as black and white as they do is disingenuous. I think the show does a pretty good job of dramatizing the main character's downward spiral into severely distorted thinking and irrational action, not least of all by having a number of other characters react differently (but seriously) to traumas similar to hers. She starts off kind of cynical but also naive and romantic in the beginning but is totally out of touch with her emotions at the end, and the choice to externalize them in a passive-aggressive act of revenge instead of opening the phone book and finding a psychiatrist (or taking her mother up on her invitation, or taking the librarian up on his invitation) is really profoundly tragic. Talking about the show as didactic or offering some kind of concrete lesson overlooks the ways it's a character study that makes you watch something really bad happen to somebody over 12 episodes. If the argument is over what factors make the main character kill herself, the answer really is that it has to do with who she is as a character and how she responds to the world around her. You could also ask why her friend who knocks over the stop sign doesn't attempt suicide deliberately but does pursue increasingly self-destructive behaviors that might kill her, like getting her rapist drunk and giving him guns. Stories are things to contemplate. You're not supposed to solve them.
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Jun 7, 2017 21:56
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Who is the worst offender that wasn't even on the list? Rapey McHotTub is the 12th tape?
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Jun 7, 2017 21:56
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TheBizzness posted:Who is the worst offender that wasn't even on the list? Rapey McHotTub is the 12th tape? Principal Bolan Or if you're talking kids, that Montgomery De La Cruz kid.
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Jun 8, 2017 01:01
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business hammocks posted:I think the show does a pretty good job of dramatizing the main character's downward spiral into severely distorted thinking and irrational action, not least of all by having a number of other characters react differently (but seriously) to traumas similar to hers. She starts off kind of cynical but also naive and romantic in the beginning but is totally out of touch with her emotions at the end, and the choice to externalize them in a passive-aggressive act of revenge instead of opening the phone book and finding a psychiatrist (or taking her mother up on her invitation, or taking the librarian up on his invitation) is really profoundly tragic. Talking about the show as didactic or offering some kind of concrete lesson overlooks the ways it's a character study that makes you watch something really bad happen to somebody over 12 episodes. I actually agree, however I'm not overlooking that stories are contemplative art and that this is a character study of a person's tragic fall into depression and suicide for which there was no solution. In fact that part of the show was about the only thing that I liked. But stories can be more than just contemplative think pieces and it was that underlying aspect, mentioned in my post, that I didn't like.
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Jun 8, 2017 02:58
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Has there been an anecdotal or widespread Werther effect as a result of this show? Like, I'd think we'd be at the point where it's past hand-wringing about what might happen.
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Jun 8, 2017 03:47
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No
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Jun 8, 2017 04:51
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| # ? May 4, 2024 13:59 |
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Well it was bound to happen eventually. I'm sure the kid had no history of mental illness and was perfectly adjusted until he watched the show.
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Jun 9, 2017 07:27
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