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Open Marriage Night
Sep 18, 2009

"Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"


Hickman will also be doing guest arcs in other X books as part of the larger world building like he’s doing with New Mutants.

He mentions coming back to comics because he wants his art to be seen. Seemed really burned out trying to appeal to suits, and selling scripts that’ll never see the light of day.

Hickman might seem kind of smug, but I think he’s deservedly confident in his storytelling.

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Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006

Ate My Balls Redux posted:

That's so weird because I am a lifelong X-Men fan and I absolutely love his stuff. I was just telling a friend last week that this is the first time since I was a child that I get excited for the next week's X-Title

He means how half the posts in this thread are about Magik.

Cloks
Feb 1, 2013

by Azathoth

Ate My Balls Redux posted:

That's so weird because I am a lifelong X-Men fan and I absolutely love his stuff. I was just telling a friend last week that this is the first time since I was a child that I get excited for the next week's X-Title

To be fair, I think he's referring to the people that interact with him on Twitter. I'm sure he gets a lot of aggrieved weirdos coming at him.

Billzasilver
Nov 8, 2016

I lift my drink and sing a song

for who knows if life is short or long?


Man's life is like the morning dew

past days many, future days few

Cloks posted:

He was pretty derisive of them the entire time, which ranged from chiding to exasperation. I think he best summed it up as "X-men fans are people who buy team books and think they should be solo titles" and said that fans is too loving of a word for X-Men readers.

It's worth listening to, he clearly has an interesting plan ahead and he really likes and respects the people he's working with.

Harsh but fair

Abroham Lincoln
Sep 19, 2011

Note to self: This one's the good one



Cloks posted:

To be fair, I think he's referring to the people that interact with him on Twitter. I'm sure he gets a lot of aggrieved weirdos coming at him.

Listening to it now, the host backs up that sort of idea that it's like. There's someone out there who's the world's biggest Maggot fan and that he deserves a solo book immediately and how dare you not give him proper respect

And if you ever look at Twitter, it's that x100 and with every character you can possibly imagine. "Fans" is too kind because that sort of obsession is full on stan.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Meh. Kind of a weird thing to be achin' and moanin' about. Who cares if there's a Maggott megafan? Who are you to deprive the world of the Maggott maxiseries that he deserves!?

Maybe it's less bitchy in context.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


I think the argument is more: There are so many loving X-men that no matter what you do, who you focus on, what kind of story you tell - there will be X-men “fans” who are pissed off Character Y isn’t loving Person Z and acting like Anecdote A.

Cloks
Feb 1, 2013

by Azathoth
Yeah but also where's the Madrox solo series we deserve?

How Wonderful!
Jul 18, 2006


I only have excellent ideas
I think even Hickman could agree with me that where should be a Doug Ramsey solo series in which every issue is about him going around to some new thing and saying "what up" and just getting its read on stuff. In pulse-pounding issue #17 Doug Ramsey finds out what an oyster thinks. Doug Ramsey gets the scoop on what the squirrels are saying... when Doreen Green ain't listening! Doug Ramsey translates the collected prose of Clarice Lispector into Doop on a dare. Doug Ramsey hangs out with a teacup and an escritoire. Doug Ramsey finds out what entropy's top five desert island albums are. Doug Ramsey and Gambit take a cajun cooking class-- you'll roux the day you miss this one, true believers. Doug Ramsey teaches the Phoenix Force how to say cusses in Dutch. And so on.

How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Oct 29, 2019

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant

Sandwolf posted:

I think the argument is more: There are so many loving X-men that no matter what you do, who you focus on, what kind of story you tell - there will be X-men “fans” who are pissed off Character Y isn’t loving Person Z and acting like Anecdote A.
And the other 1/3 are like "but in the Giant Size series, Saberhawk renounced their ninja lineage and in HoXPoXMoX #A they're wearing the clan talisman again so what happened to the plotline no one followed 3 years ago?!"

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

Archyduchess posted:

Doug Ramsey and Gambit take a cajun cooking class-- you'll roux the day you miss this one, true believers.

You wrote the entire goddamn paragraph as an excuse to use this line, didn't you.

Open Marriage Night
Sep 18, 2009

"Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"


Cloks posted:

Yeah but also where's the Madrox solo series we deserve?

Unless he loses his powers, it can never be a solo series.

Ate My Balls Redux
Aug 2, 2018

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
They recently FINALLY released Mutant X in TPB form and put it on Marvel Unlimited but I am afraid to read it in case it's not nearly as good as I remember it being

Abroham Lincoln
Sep 19, 2011

Note to self: This one's the good one



BrianWilly posted:

Maybe it's less bitchy in context.

At first I would've agreed with this, but he brings it up again unprompted and it seems something that really bothers him. :v: He does later bring up advice he tells to the whole office though, that they aren't representative of everyone enjoying the books.

Some other/different points from listening:

- He hates how so many pitches he got after he took over, that almost all of them were about breaking poo poo. The expectation that the other shoe would drop was ingrained in people's minds - being positive about it all the shock.
- Killing characters as the equivalent of "walking into the room and kicking over all the toys" isn't a good look anymore. Says it holds no shock value, readers don't want those types of stories anymore, and it only made things more difficult for themselves and fellow authors. Wants to be telling positive stories about the characters.
- All of that fed into the idea of resurrections. You can still kill a character as a plot device, but now it has to be in service of a bigger, more important story. You can't just dwell in a misery, you have to be more creative. "Be additive rather than destructive" is a rule.
- Says his personal favorite character to have written is Magneto for his killer lines. Generally thinks antagonists are more interesting, and other people on his team write protagonists better.
- The Jean/Scott/Logan polyamory thing is brought up. He says he isn't answering definitively and wants people to go wild with their headcanons, and enjoys the conversations and wants to encourage those.
- He wrote Sinister over the top to try and get everyone who comes after to get it. "Kieron wrote him at a 10. I'm writing him at a 15, so everyone else writes him at a 10."
- Moira is a Chekhov's gun and question mark that won't be going off "for years." The plot device element was chosen for her because she's always been a human. Can't say much because she's got a book coming.


- Eye Boy gets glasses. They all need different prescriptions.
- There's no baseball on Krakoa. They play esports now.

Gologle
Apr 15, 2013

The Gologle Posting Experience.

<3
I can kind of see where Hickman is coming from in regards to X-Men fans. Like, one of my favorite characters in unironically Wolverine. Yes, he's overused, yes, it's Wolverine, yes I think he's been portrayed as hitting well above his paygrade because he took off like a runaway train from his inception, but the Wolverine that I love was the one that was in Claremont's first Wolverine mini, the one where he first goes to Japan and fights the Silver Samurai and all that stuff with Yukio and Mariko and stuff. Wolverine's core character was that he was a violent person, like unto a beast, and the struggle against that violent bestial nature toward the path of a man.

That same struggle was tied up quite nicely in Claremont's run, but people didn't want a Logan that had resolved his conflict, they wanted the cool invincible handsome badass who could turn into a human blender against ninjas and the Hulk and other poo poo, not the actual hairy midget who kept getting his poo poo kicked in because of his very wolverine-esque attitude. You can see glimpses of that post-resolution Wolverine here and there, but generally whenever Wolverine shows up its as that caricature. One of my favorite portrayals of Wolverine is actually in a Daredevil book following a character named Echo, a former villain of Daredevil's, as she embarks on a quest of self reflection, which I won't spoil but it's super good.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.
I don't really disagree with any of that. Even the criticism of me, as a fan, who has hundreds of posts on this forum about Rachel Summers I'm no better.

Gologle posted:

I can kind of see where Hickman is coming from in regards to X-Men fans. Like, one of my favorite characters in unironically Wolverine. Yes, he's overused, yes, it's Wolverine, yes I think he's been portrayed as hitting well above his paygrade because he took off like a runaway train from his inception, but the Wolverine that I love was the one that was in Claremont's first Wolverine mini, the one where he first goes to Japan and fights the Silver Samurai and all that stuff with Yukio and Mariko and stuff. Wolverine's core character was that he was a violent person, like unto a beast, and the struggle against that violent bestial nature toward the path of a man.

That same struggle was tied up quite nicely in Claremont's run, but people didn't want a Logan that had resolved his conflict, they wanted the cool invincible handsome badass who could turn into a human blender against ninjas and the Hulk and other poo poo, not the actual hairy midget who kept getting his poo poo kicked in because of his very wolverine-esque attitude. You can see glimpses of that post-resolution Wolverine here and there, but generally whenever Wolverine shows up its as that caricature. One of my favorite portrayals of Wolverine is actually in a Daredevil book following a character named Echo, a former villain of Daredevil's, as she embarks on a quest of self reflection, which I won't spoil but it's super good.

While I 100% agree with you about Actualized Logan being one of my favorite characters ever and that he already has had his character pretty much resolved as it should, I also realized that I will read and kind of enjoy almost ANY solo Wolverine story no matter how cliche.

Rick fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Oct 29, 2019

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

Cloks posted:

Yeah but also where's the Madrox solo series we deserve?

Didn't he just get a mini?

amigolupus
Aug 25, 2017

Gologle posted:

I can kind of see where Hickman is coming from in regards to X-Men fans. Like, one of my favorite characters in unironically Wolverine. Yes, he's overused, yes, it's Wolverine, yes I think he's been portrayed as hitting well above his paygrade because he took off like a runaway train from his inception, but the Wolverine that I love was the one that was in Claremont's first Wolverine mini, the one where he first goes to Japan and fights the Silver Samurai and all that stuff with Yukio and Mariko and stuff. Wolverine's core character was that he was a violent person, like unto a beast, and the struggle against that violent bestial nature toward the path of a man.

That same struggle was tied up quite nicely in Claremont's run, but people didn't want a Logan that had resolved his conflict, they wanted the cool invincible handsome badass who could turn into a human blender against ninjas and the Hulk and other poo poo, not the actual hairy midget who kept getting his poo poo kicked in because of his very wolverine-esque attitude. You can see glimpses of that post-resolution Wolverine here and there, but generally whenever Wolverine shows up its as that caricature. One of my favorite portrayals of Wolverine is actually in a Daredevil book following a character named Echo, a former villain of Daredevil's, as she embarks on a quest of self reflection, which I won't spoil but it's super good.

This is a pretty good post. My favorite version is headmaster Logan from Wolverine and the X-Men. Something about Logan taking his role as mentor to teenage sidekicks to the logical conclusion by taking up Xavier's role as the new guide and protector of young Mutants was really interesting to me. Plus him naming the school after Jean, one of the bravest and kindest person he's ever known, was pretty touching.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

amigolupus posted:

This is a pretty good post. My favorite version is headmaster Logan from Wolverine and the X-Men. Something about Logan taking his role as mentor to teenage sidekicks to the logical conclusion by taking up Xavier's role as the new guide and protector of young Mutants was really interesting to me. Plus him naming the school after Jean, one of the bravest and kindest person he's ever known, was pretty touching.

It was also nice to see Kitty at the logical conclusion* from The Youngest X-Men to actually be the professor (who may or may not be a jerk).

*Even if 'privateer captain for a mutant nation' is cooler.

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!
Wolverine is one of the few major heroes in comics that massively changed his entire character and had it stick

MrMegaPhoenix
Oct 11, 2012
i think when he says "x-men fans", he means the CBR forums.

you know, the fans who have an avatar of a specific x-men character and get super upset and argumentative if their favorite character isnt the main focus of a book

Squizzle
Apr 24, 2008




Archyduchess posted:

Doug Ramsey and Gambit take a cajun cooking class-- you'll roux the day you miss this one, true believers.

danbanana
Jun 7, 2008

OG Bell's fanboi

amigolupus posted:

This is a pretty good post. My favorite version is headmaster Logan from Wolverine and the X-Men. Something about Logan taking his role as mentor to teenage sidekicks to the logical conclusion by taking up Xavier's role as the new guide and protector of young Mutants was really interesting to me. Plus him naming the school after Jean, one of the bravest and kindest person he's ever known, was pretty touching.

This is a very underrated book in the X-Canon for these exact reasons. Also it was very loving fun.

Rick posted:

While I 100% agree with you about Actualized Logan being one of my favorite characters ever and that he already has had his character pretty much resolved as it should, I also realized that I will read and kind of enjoy almost ANY solo Wolverine story no matter how cliche.

I wouldn't say his character is resolved. I think the character drama- when done right- has just shifted from "he's an out-of-control-beast!" to "look at all the poo poo he's responsible for!" Remender's X-Force itself was just a big comment on the effects of violence on characters like Wolverine with a healthy dose of Superman nurture v. nature in it. And Logan specifically had some poo poo he had to confront in that book. I think that's the best internal drama you can give him now and I think you can mine a lot of that given how his history essentially allows you an infinite number of "oh poo poo, I did that..." stories. And I think those stories are especially good in a period where people bitch about fake cancel culture. How does someone who did really terrible things in the past actually make up for it?

Dreqqus
Feb 21, 2013

BAMF!

Blockhouse posted:

Wolverine is one of the few major heroes in comics that massively changed his entire character and had it stick

It's not every character that can get away with a nationality switch:

https://youtu.be/M1yHhLDOdbs

Kingtheninja
Jul 29, 2004

"You're the best looking guy here."

Dreqqus posted:

It's not every character that can get away with a nationality switch:

https://youtu.be/M1yHhLDOdbs

The show runner for the animated series (not the pryde pilot) claimed the accent came out of the popularity of crocodile dundee or something. I always assumed it was from the team being in Australia at the time the show was being made.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006

Wolverine probably should have been Australian.

Dreqqus
Feb 21, 2013

BAMF!
For most folks he was:

Open Marriage Night
Sep 18, 2009

"Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"


Besides being called Wolverine, he really does work as Australian. The tan costume looks like it could blend into the outback, and you can picture a guy pulling a knife on him before he pops his claws “You call that a knife?”

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Aphrodite posted:

Wolverine probably should have been Australian.

I will refer you to Pryde of the X-Men.

Beerdeer
Apr 25, 2006

Frank Herbert's Dude
Not gonna stop posting about Magik.

Dreqqus
Feb 21, 2013

BAMF!
ftr it's me I'm the Maggott stan, and you'll never stop me Hicky!

Gologle
Apr 15, 2013

The Gologle Posting Experience.

<3
I think him being Canadian actually works out better. Did they still have the joke about Canadians being the nicest people in the 70's?

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

the only reason Wolverine is Canadian is because Len Wein wanted him on the All New International X-Men Team and Thunderbird was already chosen as The American Team Member

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Ate My Balls Redux
Aug 2, 2018

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

amigolupus posted:

This is a pretty good post. My favorite version is headmaster Logan from Wolverine and the X-Men. Something about Logan taking his role as mentor to teenage sidekicks to the logical conclusion by taking up Xavier's role as the new guide and protector of young Mutants was really interesting to me. Plus him naming the school after Jean, one of the bravest and kindest person he's ever known, was pretty touching.

I will never forgive Marvel for completely ruining the flow of what this book was doing for their dumb AvX event

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