|
Someone who reports to me has been having some issues with workplace relationships and professionalism. I have been working with him to try to resolve both his issues and his concerns about his not-great relationships with several colleagues but progress is hit and miss. We had a bit of a tense moment recently over a misunderstanding that I tried to resolve by speaking openly and honestly with him. He said that if I couldn't solve his issues he was gonna want off our team (and that I would be responsible for finding him a new job, which is silly) or that he would take it up with HR. I immediately offered to go straight to HR since I feel I've always been above board and wouldn't be afraid to sit down and hash things out with them since my goal is to have a healthy workplace and not to screw anyone over. I asked HR what the process would entail, related it back to him, and put the ball in his court as to whether he wants to go down that road (knowing that it would be an official process at that point and might not lead where he wants) or if he wants to work it out within the team. The next day a very trusted colleague took me aside and said that at the bar a couple nights before he was ranting about how he was gonna bring me down (exact quote) and how he was gonna go to HR an cause havoc. He was gonna ruin my reputation (which is very solid and far-reaching at this company) and basically gently caress my poo poo up. Luckily for me I've been totally honest with my boss and with my contact in HR about the challenges I've faced with him but I've also always approached the situation with the goal of resolving it in a way that would lead to the best outcome for all - to the point where he's actually gotten off easy with me because I've been trying to fix things. I've been mindful of the fact that I went from peer to boss rather quickly on him and have tried to build up his confidence and regain his trust. Obviously with this revelation that he wants to bring me down (whatever that means) I can't really trust that my positivity-based approach stands a chance of working. And his attempts to do whatever he thinks he's doing are self-destructive and counter-productive (he couldn't possibly have chosen a worse person to tell about his dastardly plans) but at the same time he can still cause me a big mess on the way down. I'm sure I have to tell my boss about this and ask him whether or not to go to HR but at the same time drunken after-hours talk is different somehow to me than workplace behavior. Still... This seems pretty extreme. Thoughts? Anyone ever experience this before? TL;DR My subordinate is drunkenly telling coworkers that he's gonna sabotage my career and bring me down. I heard about it second-hand (from a trusted source). Do I tell my boss and/or HR?
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2017 13:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 19:39 |
|
|
Let him self-sabotage - does he have "alcoholism" on file as a disability with your company or no? Is he protected class? What's stopping you from firing him right now?
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2017 15:08
|
|
|
If you're as much of an awesome badass in the company as you want to portray then just fire him on Monday. Have you never had to do that before or something? I fired a dude with a similar story/personality, and he immediately freaked the gently caress out and started ranting and raving and crying about how I was "murdering his children" because he needed the money so bad, so get ready for that shitshow. People are the loving worst. Pryor on Fire fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jun 3, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2017 15:21
|
|
|
I'm not in the US so protected class may not be a thing but he's not white and has made noises about wondering if people are prejudiced against him (although it's bullshit.) I'm not saying I'm a badass, just that I'm a straight shooter and have a good reputation. I've never fired anyone (and my company is very cautious about outright firing anyone) but I have once "managed someone out" of the org my making them miserable and encouraging them to look elsewhere. Does this sound fireable? It's definitely beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned. I'm definitely talking to my boss on Monday since that's what my gut says to do and it's never failed me at work before.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2017 15:27
|
|
|
I would not tolerate one of my subordinates talking poo poo about me and how they are going to ruin my career, like holy poo poo just take a step back for a second. He would be gone immediately. If my supervisor didn't let me fire him immediately then I would quit on the spot, because clearly you're not actually a manager with any power if that's what goes down. I mean everyone hates their boss and talks poo poo from time to time, but this dude is just asking to be fired for whatever reason, make it easier for him.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2017 15:31
|
|
|
Hey that's why I'm asking these questions. I've had difficult situations before but this is a new one on me and my management style is all about trying to inspire people, not fire them for stepping out of line. But if I have to I will, it's just something I've never encountered. I used to manage a much bigger team and I had a lucky break with them because they were awesome. Even the people who resented that a peer became their manager ended up having a really good experience with me (other than the one I managed out of course)
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2017 15:34
|
|
|
Bill Pullman posted:Hey that's why I'm asking these questions. I've had difficult situations before but this is a new one on me and my management style is all about trying to inspire people, not fire them for stepping out of line. But if I have to I will, it's just something I've never encountered. I used to manage a much bigger team and I had a lucky break with them because they were awesome. Even the people who resented that a peer became their manager ended up having a really good experience with me (other than the one I managed out of course) I had a protected class subordinate get caught stealing. Ownership was afraid of firing the employee, so it festered and the employee began calling the managers racist and it was a really bad situation. Cut their hours down to 4 hours/week and they quit. Then they got fired from their next job within 2 weeks and tried to come crawling back. Don't let poo poo like that fester.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2017 15:49
|
|
|
Good advice. I'll move on this swiftly. This isn't like a warehouse job, it's very white collar so there's a lot of process to follow but even so I don't want to just let it drag on. I've gone through too much to get here to let this lie.its tricky cuz this guy's been around our industry a lot longer than me and knows tons of ppl. So he can definitely cause me grief. But I'm not scared of him. Just annoyed.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2017 18:48
|
|
|
You only know about his ranting because of hear-say from a colleague you are close with. If he even gets a hint that you are aware of his rant, knows that you are using it to get him fired and that you heard of it through someone that it might be known you trust, it might be used against you. Just use the knowledge to keep feeding the guy rope, he'll hang himself. Do NOT let it slip in any way that you know about what he said.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2017 19:06
|
|
|
Not to be dense, but you mean don't let it slip to him only, right? You're not warning me against mentioning this to my boss and possibly HR?
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2017 19:08
|
|
|
Talk to your boss, and talk to HR. Basically, since you are at a white collar company, that is essentially the only correct option at this point. This is poisonous and people who act like assholes need to be cut or separated as quickly as possible.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2017 19:09
|
|
|
Right, good, on board with this. Thanks all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2017 19:14
|
|
|
Bill Pullman posted:Not to be dense, but you mean don't let it slip to him only, right? You're not warning me against mentioning this to my boss and possibly HR? How would his union rep or lawyer use it if they knew that at some point in the process you are in you used hear-say from one of your known close coworkers against him? If I were your boss and you told me this I would shut you up right then and there and say that you never said it and I never heard it. Again, you are most likely in the right and the guy will just gently caress himself up, but this is the kind of poo poo that will poison the well in you and your companys disfavor.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2017 19:29
|
|
|
No unions. Although of course there could always be lawyers. Pretty sure I can talk to my boss about this. Very tight with my boss. Maybe talking to hr is a bit touchier but I won't do anything without boss approval.
|
|
#
?
Jun 3, 2017 19:33
|
|
|
Without reading the OP at all, simply based on the title, my answer is no. Edit: after reading the OP, I would say just tell the boss before taking it from there. John Smith fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Jun 4, 2017 |
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 06:28
|
|
|
Thanks. I did kinda bury the lede a little, didn't I?
|
|
#
?
Jun 4, 2017 08:06
|
|
|
Honestly, this sounds more like directionless poo poo-talk than any real threat. You're giving this more worry than it deserves.He hasn't mentioned any specific plans (if he had said, "yeah, I'm going to give a guy twenty bucks to slug me in the face, then tell HR that Bill Pullman cornered me in the supply closet and beat me up," that'd be a lot more serious). The guy knows that he's having problems at work. He doesn't think he's the bad guy, so he needs to find somebody else to blame. As his boss, you're the natural target. He's probably got all kinds of stories in his head about how your terrible leadership is the real cause of every problem he's dealing with. He thinks he's going to "bring you down" by going to HR and giving them what he thinks is the real story about how your standards of professionalism are keeping him from doing his job. The guy isn't politically sophisticated enough to maintain cordial workplace relationships, he spills his "secrets" to a friend of yours, and he thinks of HR as some kind of neutral ombuds office/dispute-resolution service. The chances that he's actually hatching some kind of devious ten-moves-ahead Game of Thrones plan, rather than just embarrassing himself, are close to zero. With all that said, your best option is still to be as open and honest as possible with your own boss. Part of that is giving them a realistic assessment of the situation: you've heard, secondhand, that this guy says he's going to actively mess with your career. It was probably more of a rant than a serious threat, but it's still a concern, and you're raising it out of an abundance of caution. If something does come up, your superiors have the context to handle it; if it doesn't (the much-more-likely option) then you haven't cried wolf over something small.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 15:02
|
|
|
In my view he did mention specific plans: "I'm gonna go to HR and say stuff that's gonna ruin his reputation. I'm gonna take him down." Is enough of a threat that it warrants raising. But I agree the rest of your points. Here's what I've done today: -Told my friend that I was telling my boss and that I'd keep her anonymous as long as possible but that she might get called on to discuss this at some point -Talked to my boss. Kept it professional, didn't try to get inside the guy's head, just related what I heard and all my concerns about second hand info/drunk talk but also my concerns about feeling threatened in my workplace which is something that no one should have to feel -Contacted HR at my boss's urging and set up an appt for tomorrow -Initiated a totally generic mid-year review feedback request for all my full-time team members with a variety of other people in our group so that I can get a more diverse set of views. I didn't put my thumb on the scale but I did make sure to include people who may have been exposed to the situation as well as people who will probably have nothing but nice things to say. Gave them all until the end of the week to send in their feedback. Asked for total honesty. Aside from that he's being overly nice to me now. Like, not sincere nice. So either he realises he hosed up or he's up to something. Not gonna sit around playing mind games. Just gonna be straight up with everyone I need to, that's all.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 17:48
|
|
|
Your friend probably told more than just you about this, that's why he's acting so nice to you - it's on the grapevine. Or it might have been someone else in the bar who works at your company who overheard.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 21:51
|
|
|
No doubt.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2017 22:59
|
|
|
Welp I've been asked to start to manage him out. I've spoken with HR and my boss since my last post and this is where we've landed. They each respectively informed (at a high level) the uppermost tier of management for our group and it looks like the end is nigh. Not gonna use the drunken rant directly unless someone who heard it in person brings it up either with HR or in a mid year review response, but gonna just drive hard enough at my expectations to give him the opportunity to decide for himself that he wants to go elsewhere. The passive aggressive approach! Welcome to corporate life!
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 11:10
|
|
|
Enjoy. Don't let it suck on your soul too much.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2017 14:57
|
|
|
Thanks No Butt Stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 07:50
|
|
|
Bill Pullman posted:Thanks No Butt Stuff. I am quite delighted when somebody cuts into my queue and I get to physically assault them by shoving them aside. Full disclosure though, I am a pretty angry fellow.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 14:48
|
|
|
John Smith posted:Screw that advice. Enjoy it for all you are worth. How often do you get to stick it to someone who deserves it? seek therapy
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 15:19
|
|
|
Heh. I take no pleasure in this. We're talking about someone who was a peer and a friend and who I've traveled with. But who is currently causing a huge mess and can't see his way through to fix it. It's sad, really. And it's gonna suck.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 16:36
|
|
|
John Smith posted:Screw that advice. Enjoy it for all you are worth. How often do you get to stick it to someone who deserves it? Fun prank: turn this guy's monitor upside down and watch him burn down your entire career.
|
|
#
?
Jun 9, 2017 17:46
|
|
|
Update: exactly one month after my posting this thread he served notice. He's now serving out his notice period at home. Things had deteriorated and I was drafting up his improvement plan at the exact moment that he gave his resignation. He did all his outgoing stuff with my manager and not with me, so that plus some stuff he said showed me that at the end of the day he was never going to accept that I jumped him and became his boss. But that's fine. Leaving voluntarily was the right move and it's clear to anyone who knew the whole story that this was the result of my pushing him to improve and not letting him slide on the petty poo poo like coming in late or making rookie mistakes. I told my boss to make sure that his boss (located far away) knows that this wasn't a lucky break but the direct result of working the situation to make sure it came to a conclusion as swiftly as possible. During exit interview he did tell HR that he'd talk to a lawyer and see if he wanted to file a grievance against me but I've got all the documentation that I did everything I could to help. I also heard through two different sources that he may have recorded our conversations to which I say bring it on. I know I conducted myself like a pro every step of the way. We'll see if anything comes of it. Either way, it seems like in our country it may be legal to record a conversation without consent for personal use but that it's illegal to provide it to a third party without consent. So in the spirit of his making the wrong decision every step of the way so far, if he ends up accidentally committing a crime while trying to get "revenge" on me I won't be surprised. After all, he did say he'd have my job and four weeks later I was showing him the door. So the tale's not necessarily done yet but it seems like it could be. Either way, thanks as always for the advice. I played it straight, ran a tight ship and got the result I needed. I even have a free headcount now to hire one of my contractors whose contract is ending soon. And the global head of my business literally patted me on the back and said "thanks for taking care of that situation. It's never easy but it needs to be done." Man, I'd hate to be on the other end of that equation where someone who oversees hundreds of billions of dollars of business refers to me as a "situation." Still sad that it ended this way but it is what it is.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2017 10:30
|
|
|
Thanks for the update, that's a satisfying conclusion. In my experience the people who scream lawyer in these situations are just frustrated and don't know what else to say to get the last word or whatever, it's the stone cold silent ice people who are the ones that actually sue and you want to triple check all your paperwork on.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2017 13:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 19:39 |
|
|
Yeah, we'll see what happens. I kind of doubt he wants to be known as the guy who files grievances when our industry is so small and insular. But who knows. He did get fairly generously paid out (paid for his remaining holidays for the whole year, etc...) and we did have a good conversation before he left where he showed some remorse and openness to evaluating his role in all this. I hope he takes this opportunity to really think about what he wants out of life and career and makes some positive changes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2017 15:34
|
|