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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Mutual unintelligibility is not a condition for being a language. Scots is not English. Yes it is, whatever the SNP might tell you. Also yes Afrikaans is Dutch in much the same way American is English hth
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Feb 19, 2018 12:48
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feedmegin posted:Yes it is, whatever the SNP might tell you. When I saw the last post was by a Brit I knew it'd be taking issue with Scots as a language, really makes some people mad that Scots is a language.
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Feb 19, 2018 14:01
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Orange Devil posted:Pletterpet is the greatest word for hardhat ever. And Duikweg is the best word for tunnel
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Feb 19, 2018 14:17
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Orange Devil posted:A fellow student once asked me in class within earshot of the professor whether I agreed that she (the prof) was hot. Later he proceeded to show us pictures of his sister while telling us how hot she is. That's what I love about the internet, learning ridiculous regional stereotypes of regions I've never heard of.
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Feb 19, 2018 14:24
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Inescapable Duck posted:That's what I love about the internet, learning ridiculous regional stereotypes of regions I've never heard of. loving Helmonders at it again.
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Feb 19, 2018 15:06
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So is Helmond the Florida of the Netherlands?
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Feb 19, 2018 15:18
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Do they do Black Pete in South Africa?
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Feb 19, 2018 15:20
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icantfindaname posted:Do they do Black Pete in South Africa?  Oh my God no. H&M had mass protests for a um hmmm let's be charitable and call it a  tone-deaf advertisement.You know what just in case I'm nws-ing this because holy poo poo H&M.  https://i.imgur.com/dNJ8uY1.pngI imagine the reaction to white guys putting on blackface and playing Santa's dancing slaves would not be...exactly warm. Of course I've never been to South Africa's remaining whites-only sundown town so who knows what they do when no one darker than a light tan is watching. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Feb 19, 2018 |
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Feb 19, 2018 16:34
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VitalSigns posted:
FYI that picture is too low quality to read the shirt. It reads "Coolest monkey in the jungle."
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Feb 19, 2018 17:27
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VitalSigns posted:
Yea. The shirt was made for the UK market where "little monkey" is a term of endearment for kids. But because H&M is a global brand and websites know no boundaries, the choice of model was not exactly thought out. You don't call people monkeys in S.A. and Black Pete is beyond the pale (pun intended).
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Feb 19, 2018 18:03
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Afrikaans is Dutch that stopped evolving in the 1800's. It is kind of like how Shakespearean English is still English but sounds different in certain ways to modern English. I guess another example would be Quebecois French to French, in that Quebecois French sounds really outdated to French speakers from France. I always thought Afrikaans sounded a lot closer to Flemish than Dutch, but that is just my opinion is a non-Afrikaans speaking South African.
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Feb 19, 2018 20:53
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Mutual unintelligibility is not a condition for being a language. Scots is not English. Swedish is not Danish. Afrikaans is not Dutch. Spanish is not Portuguese. You should visit Scotpol once in a while when that particular issue gets tossed around.
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Feb 19, 2018 21:18
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Madkal posted:Afrikaans is Dutch that stopped evolving in the 1800's. Uhmm.... No.
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Feb 19, 2018 21:32
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What does 1800s Dutch even look like. Modern Dutch looks like Shakespeare to me, a zoo of funny verb endings and complicated spelling and obscure words. Oh wow that's wild.
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Feb 19, 2018 22:21
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Orange Devil posted:Uhmm.... Sorry. Kind of misspoke there. What I meant was that Netherlands Dutch evolved one way and Afrikaans another.
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Feb 19, 2018 22:27
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Coohoolin posted:You should visit Scotpol once in a while when that particular issue gets tossed around. I note with interest that neither you nor anyone else in that thread actually writes in Scots, though  Whereas eg the French and German pol threads are full of people writing in French and German.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:05
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feedmegin posted:I note with interest that neither you nor anyone else in that thread actually writes in Scots, though That's an odd standard for the recognition of a language.
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Feb 19, 2018 23:28
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woah no country's ever had more than one language used regularly no country's ever had a language start dying out because of deliberate displacements british people have never been patronising about scottish culture non-british languages have never been subjected to political weaponisation to support an imperial agenda
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Feb 19, 2018 23:38
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VitalSigns posted:What does 1800s Dutch even look like. Modern Dutch looks like Shakespeare to me, a zoo of funny verb endings and complicated spelling and obscure words. Contrast with Afrikaans from the 1800's 
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Feb 19, 2018 23:59
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kustomkarkommando posted:Contrast with Afrikaans from the 1800's Thank God for Atatürk.
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Feb 20, 2018 00:05
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forkboy84 posted:That's an odd standard for the recognition of a language. I mean I recognise a language when people actually write things in it voluntarily and outside of the Scottish Parliament online and i guess Trainspotting that seems to be basically nobody in Scotland? Unlike eg Welsh even when the UK government was in fact trying to suppress Welsh identity.
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Feb 20, 2018 00:39
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots-language_literature Hmm, a dearth of culture in a country ravaged by economic shittery since the 80s can only mean that a language isn't actually a language.
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Feb 20, 2018 00:41
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Is this some Eddie Izzard performance art? "What are these noises you're making, this can't be a language. Do you even have any literature ?" "Yea right here--" "We'll I've never read it, no literature no language, that's the rules I've just made up"
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Feb 20, 2018 02:45
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in typical fashion the english will allow scots to be a language as soon as it's dead and no sooner
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Feb 20, 2018 05:34
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feedmegin posted:I note with interest that neither you nor anyone else in that thread actually writes in Scots, though
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Feb 20, 2018 07:11
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 Afrikaans is just English with a Dutch accent.
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Feb 20, 2018 10:07
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People (and states) always get really bent out of shape over related minority languages, much more so than over alien languages. I've met Germans who don't believe Plattdüüts exists, and apparently a bunch of French and Spanish people get all uppity about their respective Occitans. It's probs because of the (mostly very successful) campaigns to eliminate said minority languages that are pretty difficult to justify these days unless you don't accept that the minorities ever existed.
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Feb 20, 2018 12:03
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I will be dead and buried before I recognize the legitimatimacy of "Eemlands" as a dialect
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Feb 20, 2018 12:37
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Osama Dozen-Dongs posted:People (and states) always get really bent out of shape over related minority languages, much more so than over alien languages. I've met Germans who don't believe Plattdüüts exists, and apparently a bunch of French and Spanish people get all uppity about their respective Occitans. It's probs because of the (mostly very successful) campaigns to eliminate said minority languages that are pretty difficult to justify these days unless you don't accept that the minorities ever existed. I mean, it should come as no surprise that the dialect on Bornholm hasn't received the best treatment from the Danish side either, I'm just struck by how willing people are to go in their quest to deny uncomfortable history. Like, it's one thing to do it for languages within your own border, but attempting to rewrite (linguistic) history cross-border seems a bit crazy. It'd be sorta like Denmark claiming Plattdüüts is a Danish dialect, though I suppose being on the receiving end of conquests at both ends has given us fewer reasons to do that particular sort of historical rewrite. In regards to why, I think the whole issue of linguistic and cultural uniformity being enforced by the nation state rather than the nation being some eternal entity that finally had political representation, is probably also a big part of why people get so mad about this. It's like, these people would say it was right if it did happen that way, because their nation is great, but it didn't happen, because their nation was always great. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 13:15
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Roch the win i the clear day's dawin Blaws the clouds heilster-gowdie owre the bay But thair's mair nor a roch win blawin Thro the Great Glen o the warl the day It's a thocht that would gar oor rottans Aa thae rogues that gang gallus fresh and gay Tak the road an seek ither loanins Wi their ill-ploys tae sport an play Nope, clearly no different from English.
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Feb 20, 2018 13:48
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So Scots is basically the equivalent to what would happen if I wrote words how they sound with an Australian accent?
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Feb 20, 2018 13:50
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Afrikaans was there all along The dutch came later
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Feb 20, 2018 13:57
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JBP posted:So Scots is basically the equivalent to what would happen if I wrote words how they sound with an Australian accent? So you know what "roch", "heilster-gowdie", "rottans", "gang", "gallus", and "loanins" mean? Different vocabulary, heavier similarities with Scandinavian languages, and divergent grammatical structures as well. If there'd been any decent level of funding or interest we'd have formalised structures, instead of the vague assortment of regional speakers we have now. It's the same thing with Gaelic- Irish Gaeilge benefits from a deliberate political drive to preserve and maintain it as a grammatically coherent and universally learnable language and has been modernised as such, with a lot of regional grammatical and pronunciation conventions being excluded from the "mainstream" Gaelic; whereas Scottish Gaidhlig has more or less been left to fester with its archaic forms, not really being universally modernised and being harder to learn as a result. If, however, you learn Irish Gaeilge as a non native and then travel around some of the different regions, you'll find a lot of regional differences that make it much harder or even impossible to understand.
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Feb 20, 2018 14:01
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Coohoolin posted:Nope, clearly no different from English. Booath careful and sober aw am, An' moor patient nor mony a scoor; Bud it's hard to booath wark hard an' clam, An' be bothered wi' duns at yo'r door. Aw've tried o mi life to ged on, An neaw, when aw'm welly worn through, Aw think as id stans me upon To sing "Wod con a weyver lad do?" Maybe languages are dialects that survive elimination attempts by hierarchical centralization.
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Feb 20, 2018 14:08
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Guavanaut posted:Much like any lumping and splitting exercise, the difference is made more stark by south-eastern English being far more successful at eliminating other competing forms over the past two centuries than it was with Scots. Viewed on a spectrum it's not south-eastern English, but is this English? I'm quite happy simultaneously admitting that the statement "X is a language" is inherently political and continuing to state that Scots is a language.
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Feb 20, 2018 14:12
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Afrikaans is by far the easiest foreign language to understand as a native English speaker that I've experienced. Its got so many similar words, and such a comparatively similar structure.
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Feb 20, 2018 14:16
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This part is breaking my brain
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Feb 20, 2018 16:56
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