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also iirc sagan gave up the idea or said he might be wrong in one of his books or something but now i’m fantasizing about the new sagan ndgt telling the public that the cia created hiv
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# ? Aug 23, 2018 04:29 |
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 11:59 |
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:also iirc sagan gave up the idea or said he might be wrong in one of his books or something Neil deGrasse Tyson: hold my beer
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# ? Aug 23, 2018 04:32 |
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:
Wow that article had some really damning example of that time during the Cold War when they *checks notes* accurately reported on American racial strife and it made America look bad to all the not white countries of the world. Curse the perfidious Slavs.
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# ? Aug 23, 2018 17:30 |
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twoday posted:I read somewhere that nuclear winter wouldn’t actually happen and that the whole theory was soviet propaganda meant to deter an American nuclear strike; thoughts? Pretty much, You want airbursts for maximum spread of the "boom" to hit the ground, not kick up dirt. Duscat posted:nuclear war will be started by the united states I don't agree with the America-centric viewpoint you got there, but as to the rest: Because after 2000 with the estimates we have, we all just throw up our hands and hope that nobody bothered to nuke South America so *somebody* has a civilization to work with to pick up the pieces, because the places that did get nuked with that much stuff aren't really going to be worth considering as a country. We currently have overkill for our overkill, out of the assumption that our opponents could probably knock a few down before they reach their target... by blowing up nukes in the flight path of our warheads. It's pretty metal/mental when you read up enough on it. The Dipshit has issued a correction as of 17:43 on Aug 23, 2018 |
# ? Aug 23, 2018 17:40 |
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Helsing posted:Wow that article had some really damning example of that time during the Cold War when they *checks notes* accurately reported on American racial strife and it made America look bad to all the not white countries of the world. Curse the perfidious Slavs. whoosh
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# ? Aug 23, 2018 18:02 |
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:whoosh No I get it, the USSR once spread a rumour about AIDs therefore every dumb thing Americans believe is probably Russian disinformatzya. The 'nuclear winter' hypothesis was advanced by western scientists who legitimately feared (with very good reason based on what we know about the Russian response to Able Archer) that the 'New Cold War' initiated by the Reagan administration would trigger a nuclear confrontation. They wanted to clearly establish a nuclear was wasn't 'winnable'. They relied on modelling which subsequent scientists have questioned the accuracy of. Seeing the anti-nuclear movement and the scientists behind it as Russian propaganda and then tying it into some lovely article in the Atlantic about the perfidious Russian tendency to publicize Jim Crow era legislation is the kind of poo poo that belongs in one of those terrible D&D megathreads.
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# ? Aug 23, 2018 19:18 |
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Helsing posted:No I get it, you don’t
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# ? Aug 23, 2018 19:25 |
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Sagan certainly did step outside of his field of expertise on the nuclear winter stuff and it was a big reason for his and Steve Schneider having a falling out. https://www.nytimes.com/1990/01/23/science/nuclear-winter-theorists-pull-back.html quote:SINCE 1983, scientists have been bitterly divided over whether a nuclear war is likely to result in a catastrophic global chilling. But the five scientists who introduced the term ''nuclear winter'' now acknowledge that they overestimated its severity, and their concession appears to have moderated the longstanding debate.
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# ? Aug 23, 2018 19:34 |
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:you don’t no one gets what you're getting at maybe post a post with more than two words
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# ? Aug 23, 2018 21:47 |
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Considering how frequently the USA came to massively loving up the world having panic attacks at the voices in its head, and how individual Soviets taking initiative in defiance of doctrine repeatedly kept the world from the brink, "nuclear winter is an FSB Active Measure" is a take and a loving half.
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# ? Aug 24, 2018 00:47 |
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Reminder that the film Crimson Tide is a metaphor for actual events retold through fiction because the heroes in that situation were unquestionably Soviet and Americans are delicate adult children. At least Denzel Washington got paid for doing his one character.
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# ? Aug 24, 2018 00:49 |
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Really interesting thread, thanks for the posts. One thing I find myself wondering is how many people would actually bother to go on if society is rapidly chucked back to the middle ages. It's one thing if your life has always been tough and it's been a struggle to survive, but the modern western population is generally seen as pretty fat and soft nowadays, even compared to the people kicking around in the 40s during WW2. For some reason I can't imagine many people would choose being worked to death in a field for 20 years until they die prematurely over quickly doing themselves in, unless they've got loved ones to protect.
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# ? Aug 24, 2018 01:22 |
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I'm going through Daniel Ellsberg's book, The Doomsday Machine, about nuclear warfare right now. It's pretty good, and the focus for at least the first half is based on his work in nuclear war planning in the late 50s through the 60s. He makes a pretty good case about how we'll all die from the eventual escalation if a nuclear bomb is ever used in combat been nuclear powers. I think his liberalism prevents him form seeing how racism and rabid anti-communism probably influenced US war planning though. He still seems confused at the time of writing why the US plans for nuclear war with the Soviet Union still involved destroying China even after the Sino-Soviet split was underway. Anyway nuclear weapons are bad, but I still think Iran should get some.
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# ? Aug 24, 2018 01:23 |
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Rookoo posted:Really interesting thread, thanks for the posts. One thing I find myself wondering is how many people would actually bother to go on if society is rapidly chucked back to the middle ages. It's one thing if your life has always been tough and it's been a struggle to survive, but the modern western population is generally seen as pretty fat and soft nowadays, even compared to the people kicking around in the 40s during WW2. People can get tough really loving quick, I wouldn't expect terribly too many people to just lay down and die because they can't play Pokemon Go or sleep comfortably in the summer.
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# ? Aug 24, 2018 20:04 |
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Rookoo posted:Really interesting thread, thanks for the posts. One thing I find myself wondering is how many people would actually bother to go on if society is rapidly chucked back to the middle ages. It's one thing if your life has always been tough and it's been a struggle to survive, but the modern western population is generally seen as pretty fat and soft nowadays, even compared to the people kicking around in the 40s during WW2.
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# ? Aug 24, 2018 20:10 |
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Willie Tomg posted:part 3: A-country and B-country, and why it sucks to be in either, the guy gets pretty weird and speculative at the end and frankly thats where he starts to lose me because there's a lot of ways things can break and a lot of ways for it to be put back together, but i generally agree that if the birds fly then you'd better have guns and clean rations in the country or life will Suck Bigly. even moreso, i mean. It doesn't seem that fanfictiony. Just follows naturally from the assumptions about what the nuclear exchange would destroy and hte assumption that population maintenance would be a top priority
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# ? Aug 24, 2018 21:44 |
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Question Friend posted:It doesn't seem that fanfictiony. Just follows naturally from the assumptions about what the nuclear exchange would destroy and hte assumption that population maintenance would be a top priority i don't think there's anything natural in that sexual analysis at all, except that its insanely naturally predictable that a guy who spent his career in lightless underground bunkers around other dudes would think its natural that women suddenly being the most important people on earth in an existential sense would be naturally dominated, overlooking the documented cultural reasons that was not the case in cultures touched by abrahamic religions where the primary artificial means of population control where plague and famine failed to do the job was bitter disputes over whether God was a faceted entity or a singular one. i guess my point is: there's nothing "natural" about patriarchy. it crops up in places for reasons.
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 03:20 |
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Willie Tomg posted:i don't think there's anything natural in that sexual analysis at all, except that its insanely naturally predictable that a guy who spent his career in lightless underground bunkers around other dudes would think its natural that women suddenly being the most important people on earth in an existential sense would be naturally dominated, overlooking the documented cultural reasons that was not the case in cultures touched by abrahamic religions where the primary artificial means of population control where plague and famine failed to do the job was bitter disputes over whether God was a faceted entity or a singular one. Yeah but it's still got nothing on this claim: quote:In this situation the US has a terrific advantage over the rest of the world. Its called the Second Amendment. The B-country population is largely armed, sometimes quite heavily. They do exactly what Founding Fathers envisaged - provide a body of armed people whom the local authority can assemble to maintain order. (The Supreme Court may argue that interpretation of the Second Amendment but by now they are doing so with the people who wrote it). In a more general sense, post-holocaust fiction usually has gangs of outlaws preying on the defenseless citizenry. Interestingly that doesn't seem to happen. In disasters people tend to work together rather than against eachother (for example in US urban disasters Hells Angels biker gangs have made sterling contributions to relief efforts using their bikes and riding skills to get emergency supplies through to places others can't). While lawlessness and disorder do occur, the ease of forming a civilian militia (using the term properly here meaning something very much like the Sheriff?s Posse beloved of Westerns) brings that situation under control. Other countries are unlikely to be so fortunate. For anyone wondering how this works out in practice I think Hurricane Katrina provides a nice proof of concept for how stabilizing it was in a disaster when a bunch of upset and highly armed white people formed a "militia" during a major disaster. That having been said it is a good read and its cool to hear someone actually discussing some of the strategic considerations that go into where the bombs get detonated and what gets targeted.
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 15:22 |
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Willie Tomg posted:i don't think there's anything natural in that sexual analysis at all, except that its insanely naturally predictable that a guy who spent his career in lightless underground bunkers around other dudes would think its natural that women suddenly being the most important people on earth in an existential sense would be naturally dominated, overlooking the documented cultural reasons that was not the case in cultures touched by abrahamic religions where the primary artificial means of population control where plague and famine failed to do the job was bitter disputes over whether God was a faceted entity or a singular one. This post gets really hard to follow halfway through
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 15:25 |
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Counterpoint: Louisiana sucks and I think the actions of people post-exchange in say Washington State or California or New Hampshire are probably going to be a little different than the actions of a bunch of southern rear end in a top hat rednecks who have been dreaming of killing minorities their whole life. There's also the fact that most of the people that came into new orleans to shoot at minorities were from areas that didn't get flooded and were totally fine. This of course doesn't really match the post-exchange world at all because everybody would be hosed in that case. Katrina allowed a bunch of white dudes from outstate to act out their hosed up fantasies because their own homes and families were fine.
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 15:28 |
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The Dipshit posted:People can get tough really loving quick, I wouldn't expect terribly too many people to just lay down and die because they can't play Pokemon Go or sleep comfortably in the summer. but then we can’t circle jerk about owning the libs because live in a slightly more rural area. But seriously anyone who think a civil war would be awesome or that “their side” would do so well that they’d actually accomplish anything positive is a dangerous loving moron. Plus most of these people stroking themselves are extremists and outcasts. Why on earth these people think somehow just making poo poo worse would give them an opportunity?
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 15:59 |
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Question Friend posted:This post gets really hard to follow halfway through Everything you consider as "natural" i/r/t sexuality is a cultural affectation of some imperial society or other. Removing those structures would do the opposite of entrench those structures.
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 21:13 |
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wilfredmerriweathr posted:Counterpoint: Louisiana sucks and I think the actions of people post-exchange in say Washington State or California or New Hampshire are probably going to be a little different than the actions of a bunch of southern rear end in a top hat rednecks who have been dreaming of killing minorities their whole life. the west coast is where all the bundy rancher militia lunatics are from and the big expanses of cow pasture in the near-desert are just the sorts of areas that would be untouched by nuclear exchange
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 21:36 |
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Being worked to death over the course of 20 years is pretty good compared to how people typically get worked to death.
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 22:04 |
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Blisster posted:I don't have anything intelligent to say about nukes, but I appreciate the Electric Six reference. Also did not read but lol remember when they edited whipcracks into nuclear and war to play on radio and MTV because we were bombing Iraq lmbo
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 22:08 |
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The whole "people helping each other in crisis" premise applies to literally any other country, and it's baffling why anyone would think that having millions of firearms in the background would somehow make post apocalyptic America more stable. It doesn't take much to touch off a war between armed militias, which in the American context is just a fancy word for gangs of white people.
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 22:14 |
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The whole "people helping each other in crisis" premise applies to literally any other country, and it's baffling why anyone would think that having millions of firearms in the background would somehow make post apocalyptic America more stable. It doesn't take much to touch off a war between armed militias, which in the American context is just a fancy word for gangs of white people. i think george romero was trying to tell americans this but all they got out of his films was better have some firearms and katanas ready for when zombies come
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 22:30 |
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oh and don't me started on the lessons they learned from the movies wall street or glenngarry glenn ross
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 22:32 |
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rural areas in all developed nations have tons of guns, it's part of rural life, they all hunt and kill pests what most of them don't have is the foundational racism that the loudest 2nd amendment folks in the us share, that long-standing desire to kill a major section of your own fellow citizens when nuclear war happens, america is gonna fall a lot deeper than the enlightened states that can work together as a society
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 23:07 |
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Duscat posted:rural areas in all developed nations have tons of guns, it's part of rural life, they all hunt and kill pests Let's say that the original premise is right, and all these militias keep the peace for a while. What you end up getting are dozens of individual polities that are all armed to the teeth and inherently distrustful of each other. Like all states are, and especially when nobody could communicate instantaneously across the globe.
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# ? Aug 25, 2018 23:09 |
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Let's say that the original premise is right, and all these militias keep the peace for a while. What you end up getting are dozens of individual polities that are all armed to the teeth and inherently distrustful of each other. Like all states are, and especially when nobody could communicate instantaneously across the globe. yeah it's not looking great for any society where there's tons of people who are gonna go HELL YEA AT LAST, RACE WAR W000000
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# ? Aug 26, 2018 00:02 |
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After the nuclear exchange European countries will be like some idyllic Thomas Kinkade paintings and the US will be like a combination of Mad Max and Far Cry 5
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# ? Aug 26, 2018 00:16 |
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then the longboats crossing east over the atlantic land and the viking age starts all over
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# ? Aug 26, 2018 00:28 |
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Happy Judgment Day, y'all!!! Thanks OP for making this thread. Some real fascinating stuff in your posts.
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# ? Aug 29, 2018 06:01 |
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# ? Apr 29, 2024 11:59 |
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if you wanna get real brain poisoning read Command and Control by Eric Schlosser: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_and_Control_(book) every day we don't blow ourselves up is nothing short of loving astonishing
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# ? Aug 29, 2018 06:17 |