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I feel like to understand why Insomniac considers Ratchet's characterization in the original game so shameful to the point of completely altering it so severely in the reboot, we have to look at the big point of contention in the original game at that time: The second act (Qwark's betrayal to his defeat). Now Ratchet prior to this point wasn't a bad character. His wants were simple and even understandable, he wanted to explore outside of the planet he'd been stuck on and if he got news toys to play with (read weapons) then all the better. Clank gave him that opportunity for little more than finding someone to deal with some random jackass. Then he not only gets betrayed by someone who is supposed to be a hero but he gets dragged into a trap by someone he had only met recently despite his own instincts warning him about said trap. Now Clank can be somewhat forgiven for walking into the trap as he had been established by naive enough to mistake a dummy for the person he was looking for and taking figures of speech literally such as when he thought Skidd's agent needed medical assistance upon seeing him ranting about bad reception. That said however, Clank's naivety still nearly got both of them killed so Ratchet's anger towards him was justified from Ratchet's perspective. Hell, Ratchet still seems to harbor some degree of resentment towards Qwark for that stunt even after years of the latter suffering one indignity after another. To make matters worse, Ratchet needed Clank as a Robotic Ignition System to start the nearby ship so he could exact revenge so he was not happy with Clank at the time. This anger however does not make Ratchet's jackassery towards Clank acceptable especially while the latter is trying to lead him down the path to becoming a hero despite Ratchet himself very clearly wanting nothing to do with heroics whatsoever. Chimera-gui fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Dec 30, 2018 |
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Sep 25, 2018 09:59
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It's also that people just flat out didn't like Ratchet as a character and didn't really want him to continue being the main character or hero. Then Ratchet and Clank 2 happened and people responded really well to his new characterisation, so Insomniac knew what people wanted.
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Sep 25, 2018 10:09
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Chimera-gui posted:I feel like to understand why Insomniac considers Ratchet's characterization in the original game so shameful to the point of completely altering it so severely in the reboot, we have to look at the big point of contention in the original game at that time: The second act (Qwark's betrayal to his defeat). it feels like you just made a huge post explaining why ratchet's jackassery made perfect sense, and then said it was unacceptable i mean yes, obviously him being an rear end is a bad thingto do, but the reason he was an rear end was understandable and worked in-universe also i'm 99% positive that most people would be pretty angry and hateful toward someone who not only almost got them killed, but tried to make them behave selflessly afterward, even if they like to think otherwise GamesAreSupernice fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Sep 25, 2018 |
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Sep 25, 2018 12:19
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The problem is that Ratchet's jackassery made him myopic and indifferent to the suffering Drek was causing to the point he nearly lost his own home because of his obsession. While Ratchet had been selfish from the start, his selfishness had been tolerable in the first act since he wasn't a borderline unlikable jackass until Qwark brought out the worst in him.
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Sep 25, 2018 15:11
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Chimera-gui posted:The problem is that Ratchet's jackassery made him myopic and indifferent to the suffering Drek was causing to the point he nearly lost his own home because of his obsession. While Ratchet had been selfish from the start, his selfishness had been tolerable in the first act since he wasn't a borderline unlikable jackass until Qwark brought out the worst in him. It really still sounds like you're explaining how Ratchet underwent a sensible change in his character through the events of the narrative, and I'm so confused how that is bad.
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Sep 25, 2018 21:27
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GamesAreSupernice posted:It really still sounds like you're explaining how Ratchet underwent a sensible change in his character through the events of the narrative, and I'm so confused how that is bad. Because it was a character the vast majority of people didn’t like, and to a company trying to make money that’s a really bad thing.
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Sep 25, 2018 21:39
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Lord_Magmar posted:Because it was a character the vast majority of people didn’t like, and to a company trying to make money that’s a really bad thing. I meant narratively, not financially. And heroes that actually want to be heroes just to be heroes are so.. boring.
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Sep 25, 2018 21:49
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GamesAreSupernice posted:I meant narratively, not financially. And heroes that actually want to be heroes just to be heroes are so.. boring. Good thing that’s not what they changed Ratchet to. He’s still got a selfish motivation for his heroism, he wants to leave his planet and be famous as a member of the Galactic Rangers. It’s Clank who wants to actually save people, and then Ratchet is betrayed by Qwark and goes home until Clank convinces him to do the right thing even if it won’t make him famous. Also in the end all this is subjective opinion anyway, what you find boring isn’t necessarily what other people finds boring, and given the very positive response to the changes in characterisation for Ratchet and Clank 2 I think it’s fair that Insomniac keep with that version or as close to it as possible.
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Sep 26, 2018 01:13
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Like I have a higher tolerance for morally grey characters hence why I'm able to look from his perspective but even I knew that Ratchet was going too far, bordering on being a villain protagonist. Hell, Jak was only slightly more extreme in II but at least his jackassery was justified by the fact he had been tortured and injected with Dark Eco for years and didn't mellow out until after slaying Kor and getting Light Eco powers. Remember that Gol Acheron, a sage, and his sister Maia were corrupted by the Dark Eco they exposed themselves to voluntarily so it's fair to say that Dark Eco does corrupt to some degree when left unchecked. What's more it was made clear that prior to getting Light powers Jak was on a razor edge with Keira expressing disgust at him working with a known criminal, Seem warning him that the Dark Eco will destroy him, and of course Veger and Erol openly despising him as a freak. And yet while he did questionable things and had understandable issues, he was still presented as being more worthy of being a hero than Ratchet even when he was at his worst. Chimera-gui fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Dec 30, 2018 |
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Sep 26, 2018 03:08
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I think having a high tolerance for morally gray characters should probably be something everyone has, but I see your point. I never thought Jak was unjustified in being an rear end though.Lord_Magmar posted:Good thing that’s not what they changed Ratchet to. He’s still got a selfish motivation for his heroism, he wants to leave his planet and be famous as a member of the Galactic Rangers. It’s Clank who wants to actually save people, and then Ratchet is betrayed by Qwark and goes home until Clank convinces him to do the right thing even if it won’t make him famous. I mean of course it's subjective, I wouldn't try to say otherwise. Character writing is inherently subjective.
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Sep 26, 2018 03:14
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Count me among those who enjoyed the 2016 R&C remake. Though I agree, they toned it down way too much, to the point of neutering it. I tend to go back every few years and play through the main R&C games (all except the first--I never actually picked it up, but that's okay because it doesn't play nearly as well as Going Commando onward). There is sort of a gradual shift from acerbic humor to goofy humor as you progress through the series, although the sarcasm never really goes away entirely, and anything with Nefarious in it is absolutely great. I recall one line in Crack in Time which is one of my favorites in the series, after Ratchet escorts a Terachnoid to an internet rendezvous and it and its partner get all lovey-dovey. Aphelion pipes up out of nowhere and helpfully informs Ratchet, "my weapons are still online; I could make it look like an accident." I think devoid of context, the 2016 remake is okay story-wise. I didn't find it offensive; there were some parts of it I found genuinely amusing. But it desperately needed the series' trademark snark to be good. For what it's worth, Full Frontal Assault looks fairly dull to me just watching it be played; perhaps it would be more entertaining playing it myself. You have got me wondering about Deadlocked now, though. Maybe I should pick it up on PSN or something and give it a shot... although I think I remember hearing Kalon or Heavenator saying the PS3 port had some issues?
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Sep 26, 2018 13:58
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KieranWalker posted:Count me among those who enjoyed the 2016 R&C remake. Though I agree, they toned it down way too much, to the point of neutering it. i really would not recommend the PS3 port of Deadlocked, they destroyed the cutscenes i personally think the story in the 2016 reboot is really bland and unimaginative, and it doesn't help the characters talk 3 times as much, but the gameplay is fine
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Sep 26, 2018 16:23
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4. Snowstorm not very much off-topic rambling this time
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Sep 26, 2018 20:40
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Holy poo poo, that's a lot of Warmonger turrets. Also, the Groovitron is still one of the best drat things in the series. I actually have the PSP version of Size Matters (I got it long before the PS2 version was a thing). It's been so long since I played it, I can't actually remember anything about it.
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Sep 28, 2018 13:52
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5. Doom doom, baby
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Sep 29, 2018 03:16
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All right, that last cutscene was great. I feel like the game needed a lot more of that. Not cutscenes as a whole, per se, but it seems like Ratchet, Clank, and Qwark just stand around looking blank in a lot of the scenes we do get. Definitely a good final boss though, no doubt. Overall this game seems pretty short, but I wonder how much of that is down to the LP format. You said you cut out a fair chunk of wandering around the stages, after all.
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Sep 29, 2018 14:26
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KieranWalker posted:All right, that last cutscene was great. I feel like the game needed a lot more of that. Not cutscenes as a whole, per se, but it seems like Ratchet, Clank, and Qwark just stand around looking blank in a lot of the scenes we do get. Definitely a good final boss though, no doubt. It's about 3 and a half hours without editing, but much less in Co-Op
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Sep 29, 2018 21:38
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