- Taintrunner
- Apr 10, 2017
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by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
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what the gently caress is populism and why is it the neoliberal's favorite word since 2016. like goddamn I cannot hear the loving end about populists and populism. it sure sounds like doing what the dirty unwashed masses want. lets loving look into what this means.
To be fair, here is a somewhat decent article: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/27/magazine/how-can-donald-trump-and-bernie-sanders-both-be-populist.html
quote:And those who disparage “populism” in general neglect its salutary function. When populist talkers direct their outrage at elites, in government or business, who neglect the needs and betray the trust of ordinary citizens, they can perform a service to the nation. They train their language of discontent on those accused of betraying the core ideal of American democracy — one that is no less powerful because it can never be fully realized.
In their own fashion, Sanders and Trump are protesting inequalities and the corruption of public life without calling the entire system into question. (Sanders may speak of “revolution,” but he still chose to run for president within the two-party system.) You may love such upheavals or loathe them. Trump’s hostility toward undocumented immigrants and Muslims is certainly reprehensible. But every major “populist” insurgency is a warning about serious problems festering in our politics. To simply blame the messenger is an exercise in denial.
but really, I feel like I'm losing my loving mind, because every time I hear the term "populism" now, my brain anguishes in pain. Let's look at a more recent piece: https://medium.com/@investigator_21314/bernie-sanders-white-populism-91503f9d04a0
quote:If you’re active on Twitter it might come as a surprise to see Bernie supporters harass and intimidate black activists. If you take the time to get more familiar with Bernie’s political movement over the last four or so years, it isn’t really very surprising after all.
In this article I want to document how Bernie, from when he first started talking about running for President in 2014 to very recently, has created a movement of white populism and rage not so very different from that of Trump.
lol do not actually read the rest of that poo poo.
That is from this: https://theweek.com/articles/759278/why-populists-left-right-are-soulmates-trade which has some genuinely terrible loving paragraphs, for example:
quote:Why the common ground? Well, because populists gonna populist, whether they are on the Bernie Bro left or the "drain the swamp" right, although each side may be loathe to admit how much they have in common. But in reality, it's quite a bit. Both are deeply suspicious of capitalism as a positive force in bringing about a peaceful and prosperous society. Both rhetorically champion "the people" against "the elite" or "the establishment." And both tend to ignore possible constraints on their actions, which is one reason they dislike markets. (This tends to be true of populists everywhere.) As presidential candidates, Sanders and Trump had the two most implausible economic plans, with both assuming super-fast economic growth to make their numbers work. When you're a populist politician with big dreams of Medicare for all or mega-tax cuts for all, it's a real drag to have to worry about debt-to-GDP ratios or what bond investors might think
What are the origins of the term "populist" and how can we better understand it going into 2020? And why do I want to loving die just thinking about this poo poo so much?
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Feb 11, 2019 11:57
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May 4, 2024 21:43
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- pigdog
- Apr 23, 2004
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by Smythe
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It's mod sass IRL.
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Feb 11, 2019 12:10
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- BrutalistMcDonalds
- Oct 4, 2012
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Lipstick Apathy
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i mean it's really a style more than coherent set of policies.
my vulgar marxist take is that it's arising in the core empire because the market (objective forces) crushed labor so it doesn't really need to divide workers as much as it used to. that coincided with granting some political demands to oppressed social formations (women, people of color, LGBT, etc.). the dominant social/political formations in these countries (typically white men) are also seeing that capital no longer strictly needs to buy them off any more -- they can be proletarianized -- and so they are fighting a rearguard action to try and stop this process through a revanchist campaign targeting the social formations which draw their ire (women, people of color, immigrants, LGBT, etc.).
basically, right-wing populism.
can also see this with brexit where you have leave voters saying "well, i didn't know it would be this bad, but i would still vote for it today because there are too many immigrants." they privilege the subjective (nation, culture, identity) over the objective (the market), and would rather sit on top of a pile of ruins as long as they get to be on top. this puts these other social formations in the unenviable position of defending the status quo which both exploits them and is less oppressive than the revanchist, right-wing campaign making them into a target. once again evidence that capitalism will eventually destroy itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVbShUW6QBM
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Feb 11, 2019 12:45
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- Lawman 0
- Aug 17, 2010
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anything rich people don't like op
close thread
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Feb 11, 2019 12:47
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- Often Abbreviated
- Dec 19, 2017
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1st Severia Tank Brigade
"Ghosts of Honcharivske"
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Something to do with farmers co-ops to counter the limited gold-backed currency supply causing repeated depressions in the American heartland. Only it got taken over by the bad guy from the monkey trials who turned it all into silverbuggery. I dunno, the War Nerd had a whole episode about it not long ago and this is the best my dying elderly brain can recall.
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Feb 11, 2019 12:54
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- Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3
- Nov 15, 2003
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anything rich people don't like op
close thread
let's define "regime" next
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Feb 16, 2019 17:37
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- Mercrom
- Jul 17, 2009
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so it means democracy but liberals use it instead because its sounds like a fancy latin way of saying identity politics or something?
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Feb 16, 2019 18:41
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- Blurred
- Aug 26, 2004
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WELL I WONNER WHAT IT'S LIIIIIKE TO BE A GOOD POSTER
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This is a good book for thinking about this issue. The authors link nationalistic populism (and all populism is at least vaguely nationalistic in nature - there are no cosmopolitan populisms) to what they call the "4 Ds": distrust, destruction, deprivation, de-alignment. These are the factors which push people towards populism, and the factors that populist demagogues harp on to attract voters.
- Distrust: Populism begins with a distrust of higher institutions, and a belief that these institutions are failing the people and the nation. Institutions here could mean particular bodies - the WTO, the EU, the courts etc. - or they could be more nebulous constructions like "globalists" or "the elite". Whatever the precise target, populism gains traction wherever people begin to lose faith in the existing order. Populist rhetoric thus often takes on a paranoid or conspiratorial bent because it is necessary for populist candidates to push the idea that the current system does not have your best interests and heart and cannot be trusted.
- Destruction: Populism carries with it the idea that "the people" (however so defined or understood) are under an existential threat. There are "others" (again, however so defined or understood) who wish to destroy your culture, your nation and your way of life. Populism for that reason often has a nostalgic bent - a wistful desire to return to a rather underspecified time where the nation was "great" and had yet to be undermined by these "others". Populist rhetoric will therefore often take on a persecutory tone and invoke belligerent allusions (as there is a real sense in which the populists believe they are "at war" for their lives), and is almost always xenophobic in nature. Immigration is a major issue in all populist movements for that reason.
- Deprivation: Populism also carries with it the idea that "the people" are also somehow being "deprived" of something to which they believe they are entitled. These arguments are often economic in nature and is directed against the wealthy "elites" who are seen as hording all the money, or against foreign "others" in the form of countries ("China is killing us on trade") or individual people ("they took our jobs!"). Deprivation is, of course, a relative term. A person may in fact be better off than they were in the past, but still feel resentful when they witness others who they feel are benefiting more. Populism, for that reason, is more likely to be rural in nature (as economic growth tends to concentrate in urban areas), more appealing to those with a lower education (as they feel they are being deprived of employment opportunities) and racially charged (as any signal that immigrants or minorities are living in a state of low deprivation is likely to evoke a sense of relative deprivation among the ethnic majority). Populist rhetoric is thus necessarily negative, if not apocalyptic, in its depiction of social decay: if you don't believe that you are being unduly deprived of something, then populist ideas have no possibility of gaining traction.
- De-alignment: De-alignment is the idea that traditional social and political blocs are in decline, and that populism is more likely to take root in nations where this decline is most pronounced. Class identification is in decline in most of the western world, so is religious identification, so is union membership, so is political party affiliation and so on. People are now more likely to view socio-cultural bonds and group membership in their nation as something shifting and volatile rather than as something stable and reliable, which in turn stokes fear and anxiety. Once dependable cultural pillars are seen as having been uprooted and as having been replaced by newer cultural forms (identity politics, political correctness etc.) which is seen as eroding traditional sources of "belonging". This is why populism is typically anti-liberal in nature (as liberalism implies the possibility of individual conscience, which undermines the possibility of a simple, hegemonic, nationalistic culture to which all belong and pledge subservience) and typically holds a greater appeal to older people and to social conservatives (who are less likely to welcome or be able to adapt to any cultural change).
Blurred has issued a correction as of 19:26 on Feb 16, 2019
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Feb 16, 2019 19:24
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- Peanut President
- Nov 5, 2008
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by Athanatos
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Populism means "we destroyed these poor people's social order and now they're angry ??"
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Feb 16, 2019 21:00
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- Dreddout
- Oct 1, 2015
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You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you.
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This is a good book for thinking about this issue. The authors link nationalistic populism (and all populism is at least vaguely nationalistic in nature - there are no cosmopolitan populisms) to what they call the "4 Ds": distrust, destruction, deprivation, de-alignment. These are the factors which push people towards populism, and the factors that populist demagogues harp on to attract voters.
- Distrust: Populism begins with a distrust of higher institutions, and a belief that these institutions are failing the people and the nation. Institutions here could mean particular bodies - the WTO, the EU, the courts etc. - or they could be more nebulous constructions like "globalists" or "the elite". Whatever the precise target, populism gains traction wherever people begin to lose faith in the existing order. Populist rhetoric thus often takes on a paranoid or conspiratorial bent because it is necessary for populist candidates to push the idea that the current system does not have your best interests and heart and cannot be trusted.
- Destruction: Populism carries with it the idea that "the people" (however so defined or understood) are under an existential threat. There are "others" (again, however so defined or understood) who wish to destroy your culture, your nation and your way of life. Populism for that reason often has a nostalgic bent - a wistful desire to return to a rather underspecified time where the nation was "great" and had yet to be undermined by these "others". Populist rhetoric will therefore often take on a persecutory tone and invoke belligerent allusions (as there is a real sense in which the populists believe they are "at war" for their lives), and is almost always xenophobic in nature. Immigration is a major issue in all populist movements for that reason.
- Deprivation: Populism also carries with it the idea that "the people" are also somehow being "deprived" of something to which they believe they are entitled. These arguments are often economic in nature and is directed against the wealthy "elites" who are seen as hording all the money, or against foreign "others" in the form of countries ("China is killing us on trade") or individual people ("they took our jobs!"). Deprivation is, of course, a relative term. A person may in fact be better off than they were in the past, but still feel resentful when they witness others who they feel are benefiting more. Populism, for that reason, is more likely to be rural in nature (as economic growth tends to concentrate in urban areas), more appealing to those with a lower education (as they feel they are being deprived of employment opportunities) and racially charged (as any signal that immigrants or minorities are living in a state of low deprivation is likely to evoke a sense of relative deprivation among the ethnic majority). Populist rhetoric is thus necessarily negative, if not apocalyptic, in its depiction of social decay: if you don't believe that you are being unduly deprived of something, then populist ideas have no possibility of gaining traction.
- De-alignment: De-alignment is the idea that traditional social and political blocs are in decline, and that populism is more likely to take root in nations where this decline is most pronounced. Class identification is in decline in most of the western world, so is religious identification, so is union membership, so is political party affiliation and so on. People are now more likely to view socio-cultural bonds and group membership in their nation as something shifting and volatile rather than as something stable and reliable, which in turn stokes fear and anxiety. Once dependable cultural pillars are seen as having been uprooted and as having been replaced by newer cultural forms (identity politics, political correctness etc.) which is seen as eroding traditional sources of "belonging". This is why populism is typically anti-liberal in nature (as liberalism implies the possibility of individual conscience, which undermines the possibility of a simple, hegemonic, nationalistic culture to which all belong and pledge subservience) and typically holds a greater appeal to older people and to social conservatives (who are less likely to welcome or be able to adapt to any cultural change).
This definition seems to exclude the left wing populist movements that have developed in the global south
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Feb 16, 2019 21:29
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- Top City Homo
- Oct 15, 2014
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Ramrod XTreme
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This is a good book for thinking about this issue. The authors link nationalistic populism (and all populism is at least vaguely nationalistic in nature - there are no cosmopolitan populisms) to what they call the "4 Ds": distrust, destruction, deprivation, de-alignment. These are the factors which push people towards populism, and the factors that populist demagogues harp on to attract voters.
- Distrust: Populism begins with a distrust of higher institutions, and a belief that these institutions are failing the people and the nation. Institutions here could mean particular bodies - the WTO, the EU, the courts etc. - or they could be more nebulous constructions like "globalists" or "the elite". Whatever the precise target, populism gains traction wherever people begin to lose faith in the existing order. Populist rhetoric thus often takes on a paranoid or conspiratorial bent because it is necessary for populist candidates to push the idea that the current system does not have your best interests and heart and cannot be trusted.
- Destruction: Populism carries with it the idea that "the people" (however so defined or understood) are under an existential threat. There are "others" (again, however so defined or understood) who wish to destroy your culture, your nation and your way of life. Populism for that reason often has a nostalgic bent - a wistful desire to return to a rather underspecified time where the nation was "great" and had yet to be undermined by these "others". Populist rhetoric will therefore often take on a persecutory tone and invoke belligerent allusions (as there is a real sense in which the populists believe they are "at war" for their lives), and is almost always xenophobic in nature. Immigration is a major issue in all populist movements for that reason.
- Deprivation: Populism also carries with it the idea that "the people" are also somehow being "deprived" of something to which they believe they are entitled. These arguments are often economic in nature and is directed against the wealthy "elites" who are seen as hording all the money, or against foreign "others" in the form of countries ("China is killing us on trade") or individual people ("they took our jobs!"). Deprivation is, of course, a relative term. A person may in fact be better off than they were in the past, but still feel resentful when they witness others who they feel are benefiting more. Populism, for that reason, is more likely to be rural in nature (as economic growth tends to concentrate in urban areas), more appealing to those with a lower education (as they feel they are being deprived of employment opportunities) and racially charged (as any signal that immigrants or minorities are living in a state of low deprivation is likely to evoke a sense of relative deprivation among the ethnic majority). Populist rhetoric is thus necessarily negative, if not apocalyptic, in its depiction of social decay: if you don't believe that you are being unduly deprived of something, then populist ideas have no possibility of gaining traction.
- De-alignment: De-alignment is the idea that traditional social and political blocs are in decline, and that populism is more likely to take root in nations where this decline is most pronounced. Class identification is in decline in most of the western world, so is religious identification, so is union membership, so is political party affiliation and so on. People are now more likely to view socio-cultural bonds and group membership in their nation as something shifting and volatile rather than as something stable and reliable, which in turn stokes fear and anxiety. Once dependable cultural pillars are seen as having been uprooted and as having been replaced by newer cultural forms (identity politics, political correctness etc.) which is seen as eroding traditional sources of "belonging". This is why populism is typically anti-liberal in nature (as liberalism implies the possibility of individual conscience, which undermines the possibility of a simple, hegemonic, nationalistic culture to which all belong and pledge subservience) and typically holds a greater appeal to older people and to social conservatives (who are less likely to welcome or be able to adapt to any cultural change).
That’s just fascism. it doesn’t need a new word or all those other words
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Feb 16, 2019 22:51
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- Farm Frenzy
- Jan 3, 2007
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if u want to be really generous to the pundits who use the term i think the definition is something like 'inarticulate rage from regular people'. that way you can lump together both boomer trump/brexit people who just speak in racist riddles when asked about how they see the world and bernie/corbyn millenials who are starting to hate capitalism but haven't inhaled enough theory to identify with a particular tendency or policies. so its literally elitism but it can also be used by pundit geniuses to defend fascism and smear leftism simultaneously
Farm Frenzy has issued a correction as of 23:52 on Feb 16, 2019
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Feb 16, 2019 23:49
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- Vitamin P
- Nov 19, 2013
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Truth is game rigging is more difficult than it looks pls stay ded
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"Populism" in practise is just shitheads trying to tie leftist anti-neoliberalism to the rising far right.
The libs are doing it because they hate the left, by presenting this idea 'populism' as being a broad non-ideological anti-expert force they can smear the left as being basically the same as Bannons lot. It's a way to give a moral fire to their base.
The fash are embracing it because they fear the left, they are trying to make peoples dissatisfaction with neoliberalism a non-economic issue that could be solved by sorting out Those Fuckers, whoever Those Fuckers happen to be at the time. The left talking about the economic issues cuts the fash off from their target audience, so marrying themselves to the left with a shallow 'populism' framework benefits the fash tremendously because it dilutes economic discussion.
For most of us here we want policies that benefit the working class and have no problem with those policies inconveniencing the scumbag rich. But that's not "populism", it's decency.
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Feb 17, 2019 00:18
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May 4, 2024 21:43
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- Persiflagist
- Mar 7, 2013
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i think populism is when you believe in the popul.
(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 3, 2021 02:16
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