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A couple of weeks ago my mother suffered a severe allergic reaction, which lead to respiratory and cardiac failure. She’s now on a series of machines to keep her body going, but the doctors have confirmed that due to being without oxygen for 10-15 minutes, she has suffered severe, permanent anoxic brain damage and will not regain consciousness. She is divorced and lived with her boyfriend. The family decision is to transfer her to a temporary care facility for a time. While we understand the prognosis is bleak and the doctors have told us not that she may not, but that she will not, recover, this gives a little time to see if there is any possible change in condition. The length of time we wait will depend on how long this care will continue to be covered by her insurance. In the meantime, we’re getting her affairs in order as she does not have a will. This is in Michigan, and I live in Chicago. Currently I am looking into retaining an Estate lawyer to help sort things out. Challenges ahead of me: - With no will, there's no clear designation of who should have access to her paperwork and handle her affairs. My two siblings both agreed that I can handle this (neither of them want to) but I'll need to make sure that we get their permission in writing to avoid later ugliness. My brother lives across the country, and my sister who is local actually said that she thought we should pull the plug now because "she'll be too busy socially in a month to help handle any final arrangements then". - My grandmother passed away about 6 months ago and left mom her house. Mom closed on the sale of the house about 2 months ago, but she sold it as a 'Land Contract' which has a down payment and then monthly installments for several years until paid in full. The buyer was (as far as I know) paying her in cash which then should have been deposited into an account. - Outside of the sale of the house, my mom has no money. She's not working, and on SSI, medicare and medicaid which has covered all of her past and present health issues at 100%, but meant that she couldn't keep any significant amount of cash without losing her benefits. So, any costs for settling her estate will have to come from me. She does have a car that I can sell, but that's another complication to deal with. There's also a safe deposit box she set up, but we have no idea what is in there (and won't know until I have PoA and can get to Michigan to take a look). - I ALSO don't have money to pay for any of this, as I'm basically living paycheck to paycheck. Theoretically the house funds should cover any of these costs plus her final arrangements with perhaps a bit left over to split between the siblings, but it looks like I'll have to front the legal costs and final costs. I'm trying to decide if I should perhaps open a credit card to handle all of the expenses to keep it all tracked in one place for easy reimbursement later, one of those that has a 0% APR for 12-15 months. The lawyer accepts credit. I'll need to ask him if he thinks other potential costs (paperwork filing, court costs, etc) will also be things I can put on credit or if I should expect cash costs. The other concern is whether covering any of these costs out of my pocket might somehow open a doorway for me to be responsible for her debts. That thought scares me, but where else would the money come from? I don't see another option. There is a large deposit for the land contract sale that should cover anything I need, but I need to find out from the title attorney handling that whether it's somehow locked until the sale completes, or if we can dip into that. I know that working with the lawyer (both the Estate lawyer I've contracted, and hopefully the title lawyer that mom dealt with to sell the house will be able to provide some info too without asking for another retainer). But, any and all advice from anyone that has been there before, or has experience in similar circumstances or works in any of the industries is very appreciated.
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Feb 11, 2019 15:52
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| # ? May 5, 2024 07:21 |
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You may want to ask in this thread. They're highly averse to the word "advice" (for perhaps obvious reasons), but they can generally give you good general tips relating to what sorts of lawyers and a rough estimate on how much it might cost you
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Feb 12, 2019 05:31
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How long had she lived with her boyfriend? If it was long enough it may have been a common law marriage which would be another factor to consider. And yeah, the first thing you probably want to address is getting your lawyer to draw up a release for your siblings to sign. It should be entirely possible for you to email a PDF to your brother, have him sign it in front of a notary public with a witness, then ship it to you via certified mail.
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Feb 13, 2019 12:50
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Standard I'm not a lawyer disclaimer goes here; I'm not a lawyer I'm just trying to point you in the right direction. I think common law marriages mostly have gone away. That's a state by state thing though so the thing to look at is the laws in the state they lived in. If there isn't a will there's usually some law somewhere that determines the default order that inheritance goes by. The stuff to look up is first of kin laws. Again states usually have their own but I think the typical thing is that her oldest living child basically inherits everything or becomes the executor of the estate once she dies. The thing to do is to look up the laws in the state and go from there. You don't necessarily need a lawyer unless somebody sues. I think lawyers in these cases will also work for a chunk of the state so if there's a house or income from a house in the process of being sold you have something you can probably milk for whatever cash you need. As for your siblings not wanting to do it and leaving that to you get it in writing. That can't be repeated enough. GET ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING IN WRITING. I think the courthouse can tell you what forms to fill out or how to handle that properly. I think clerks can't give you actual legal advice most of the time but they can point you at the paperwork you need to take care of. How you handle this sort of thing ultimately depends on the laws of the state things are happening in. I think that's pretty much always whatever state she is a citizen of. However there are limits on what you can do until she actually dies. If she is still alive, even if it's in end of life care, I think there are limits on what you can do. So yeah, I'm not a lawyer but you can go look up the relevant laws and go from there. There are lawyers who specialize in this sort of thing and legal fees only end up becoming expensive if somebody involved makes a fuss. This is why "get everything in writing" is so important. If it turns out your mother had something valuable nobody knows about there's a possibility somebody will make a stink about it but if you have paperwork that says "EVG is in charge and makes all the decisions" there's crap all they can actually do about it.
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Feb 13, 2019 19:03
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Nothing useful to add in terms of advice, but having managed both my parents' estates, I wish you godspeed and good luck.
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Feb 14, 2019 03:16
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ToxicSlurpee posted:You don't necessarily need a lawyer unless somebody sues. I agree with most of what you said, but this part is really not the case. OP will absolutely definitely need a lawyer, even if everyone is happy and completely agrees on division of property (spoiler: they probably won't). Sorry about your mum, OP.
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Feb 14, 2019 07:50
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Whitlam posted:I agree with most of what you said, but this part is really not the case. OP will absolutely definitely need a lawyer, even if everyone is happy and completely agrees on division of property (spoiler: they probably won't). That's situational, I think; my aunt handles my grandma's estate without a lawyer. It's a good idea to at the very least get in touch with a lawyer but sometimes you can get by without hiring one or with minimal legal costs. An appraiser had to get involved for a few things but mostly there weren't legal fees or hassles to speak of. ToxicSlurpee fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Feb 14, 2019 |
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Feb 14, 2019 09:19
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ToxicSlurpee posted:That's situational, I think; my aunt handles my grandma's estate without a lawyer. It's a good idea to at the very least get in touch with a lawyer but sometimes you can get by without hiring one or with minimal legal costs. An appraiser had to get involved for a few things but mostly there weren't legal fees or hassles to speak of. The situation is there's no will, and the mum lives with the boyfriend, who may or may not be entitled to part of the estate but the OP has no way of knowing who's entitled to what. It's absolutely possible the legal costs will be minimal, and hopefully they are, but probate is really not something you want to muck around with if you have no idea what you're doing. I mean it's moot anyway, since the OP is contacting a lawyer, but in cases where there aren't clear instructions, always contact a lawyer, even if it's just to confirm you don't need one.
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Feb 14, 2019 09:40
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Thanks everyone. I've hired a lawyer who does Estate law and hopefully he can help me wade through this.
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Feb 14, 2019 15:40
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If it's not too personal or upsetting can you type up a summary of your experience in a few weeks/months? I don't know know anything about estates and don't think I've ever read about it in BFC really. I'm curious as to what the process ends up looking like and what sort of gotchas to look out for since I'm about to have to do the same song and dance.
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Feb 14, 2019 19:13
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Pryor on Fire posted:If it's not too personal or upsetting can you type up a summary of your experience in a few weeks/months? I don't know know anything about estates and don't think I've ever read about it in BFC really. I'm curious as to what the process ends up looking like and what sort of gotchas to look out for since I'm about to have to do the same song and dance. This.
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Feb 15, 2019 23:37
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Keep in mind that estate-related expenses (lawyer, etc.) should be borne by the estate and not you. Also you will need to set up a bank account in the estate's name to handle things like found money, proceeds from sale of assets, payments to creditors (yourself included), etc. If Michigan is like most states then you'll need to submit proof of all credits paid out of the estate so do not be using your own account for anything unless you want to deal with massive headache down the road. I'd advise that you not take out a credit card unless you are 110 million percent sure you will be reimbursed by the estate; you may need to inquire with a lawyer to find out what sort of estate administration expenses are reimbursable and where those would fall in the payment of creditors (not all debts are equal and debts must be paid in a certain order). If you cant come out at least even the I'd say just walk. It's not anyone's responsibility but the decedent's to ensure their estate is in order and actually possible to reasonably settle. I just got done doing my father's estate. It was a bit of a black box and I knew nothing going into it so I can do a huge effort post if people want, but I was lucky in that his assets were small enough that I could do an abbreviated process for the whole thing and avoid probate. Still, even being the much easier process it was a massive pain and I only barely made the three month deadline for wrapping everything up. Unfortunately since I did a kind of nonstandard process most of my experience won't be very helpful to anyone so I'll leave these random points instead: 1. You might ask "what about if someone has, for example, 30k on a credit card and the estate is insolvent?" The answer is that the creditor is supposed to write it off as that's part of the risk you take in offering credit. Most states do not allow kin to inherit debt. As always, check your local statutes. 2. If you have to sell vehicles, don't transfer them to your name first. The DMV will let you sign on behalf of the decedent as the executor. This will save you paying registration fees and such. If they're being transferred without any money paid to the estate (paying creditors) then you can get the highway use tax exempted via a separate form. 3. Don't forget to file the decedent's taxes for the year they died in. That's your responsibility now. 4. Lawyer costs should be borne by the estate, not you. This falls under estate administration expenses. 5. Be careful about scattering ashes offshore. 6. Get five more copies of the death certificate than you think you'll need, and keep all paperwork until you close the estate. 7. Again, my opinion is that if you aren't reasonably sure that you can dispose of an estate without injury to yourself, I would not bother. 8. Use a PO box for dealing with creditors so once the estate is closed you can unilaterally terminate all communication from any that may have to go unpaid in the case of insolvency. Sheep fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Mar 8, 2019 |
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Mar 8, 2019 03:49
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Sheep posted:Keep in mind that estate-related expenses (lawyer, etc.) should be borne by the estate and not you. Also you will need to set up a bank account in the estate's name to handle things like found money, proceeds from sale of assets, payments to creditors (yourself included), etc. If Michigan is like most states then you'll need to submit proof of all credits paid out of the estate so do not be using your own account for anything unless you want to deal with massive headache down the road. My moms case is a bit complex. She doesn’t have any assets. Nor any debts. She’s been on SSI and that was her only income. However, my grandmother passed recently and my mom inherited, and sold (as an ongoing land contract) grandma’s house. Someone has to figure out what is going on with that and resolve any payment issues/make sure that the payments are still being received, because she had been getting them in cash. We don’t even know where the payments (which should have been deposited to my grandmothers estate account) had been going. Mom has no parents, siblings, or other close family aside from me and my brother (States away, not interested in helping) and sister (local to mom but several years estranged and not interested in helping). The lawyer costs will hopefully be paid out from the estate. But the fact is, there is no solvent money to pay for that until I figure out what is going on with her estates, for which I need a lawyer or I can’t even look into her bank accounts, talk to the title company about house sale, etc. If she didn’t have the house, I’d have probably had to step in in any case to handle the upcoming final arrangements when she passes, though not sure when that may be. No, I’m not sure I can do this without injury... and I also fear that the gov will take the house sale proceeds and leave me footing the legal and final funerary costs (Mom was going to roll this into purchase of a home and so avoid taxes or assets being seized because she can only have $ to her name and keep her SSI and Medicare/medicaid.). But what else can I do? We can’t figure the mess out without a lawyer and someone had to step up.
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Mar 9, 2019 06:31
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Yeah your case sounds wonky and you probably need an estate lawyer to figure that one out due to the weird situation with the grandmother's house. I was going to say that if you don't care about the proceeds from the grandmother's house you could just bail on the whole estate situation, bury your mother and move on with your life, but it sounds like there may be a substantial amount of money still due your mother('s estate) so that's probably not the best option. Hopefully she kept receipts and paperwork for that whole setup. On the upside since she doesn't have any debts or major assets you're probably not in for too much hassle if everything with the house was on the up and up. Should be fairly straightforward to get that sort out with a lawyer's help so the money can go wherever the state says intestate asset distribution goes, reclaim your costs, etc. Good luck! Sheep fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Mar 9, 2019 |
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Mar 9, 2019 07:07
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Sheep posted:Yeah your case sounds wonky and you probably need an estate lawyer to figure that one out due to the weird situation with the grandmother's house. It’s not even so much the money for the house (It’s really the least important thing here) but I felt like Someone needed to step up and help sort things out. And now I am hoping that the house sale will let me recoup the costs I’ll likely spend burying my mom per her wishes (she does NOT want to be cremated) though my sister already said “let’s just pull the plug now and do whatever’s cheapest, don’t let her linger on life support because it’s inconvenient to me socially.” I’m not religious and don’t believe that mom will have any idea what happens after she passes, but the money from grandmas estate was rightfully hers first, and if the money is there then yes I will follow her burial wishes, because it feels lovely not to. She’s back in the hospital ER now with pneumonia, and I had to fight to get the hospital to tell me that much, since because of HIPPAA laws they didn’t want to tell me anything over the phone but I’m 5 hours away.
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Mar 9, 2019 15:57
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Sheep posted:Keep in mind that estate-related expenses (lawyer, etc.) should be borne by the estate and not you. Also you will need to set up a bank account in the estate's name to handle things like found money, proceeds from sale of assets, payments to creditors (yourself included), etc. If Michigan is like most states then you'll need to submit proof of all credits paid out of the estate so do not be using your own account for anything unless you want to deal with massive headache down the road. Basically this ^^^^ I am going through my father's probate right now and I can tell you it SUCKS and he had a will. First off, you can't do ANYTHING with your mom's stuff because she hasn't passed away. Unless she gave someone medical power of attorney, you are not going to get anything from the hospital as far as her condition and such. Your lawyer should be telling what you need to do. This is what I had to do. 1. Be assigned 'Executor' of the estate by a probate judge. You will be given copies of Letters Testamentary (letters stating that you are in charge of your parent's estate) and original copies of the death certificate. You will need these for acting on her behalf. 2. create an estate account at a bank under the 'estate of your mom' with a EIN number (tax number) so that you can pay any bills of hers from this account. You will need to have originals of your Testamentary and her death certificate for this. 3. discover all bank accounts, credit card accounts, bills (utility and such) and notify them of your mom's passing. You will also have to worry about her income tax return for the last year she was alive and for property taxes. You need to go to the property tax office to let them know that her property is under probate. You will need the paperwork I mentioned before. 4. you need to contact SS and let them know that she passed away. 5. now the fun part..............you have to inventory all of her stuff. Cars, houses, personal items, jewelry, and other things and give them a value...a dollar amount. If her car was paid for, you will need to find the title for it. house and car keys, the things you don't think of but really need to gain access to things. Close any checking or savings accounts and move that money to the estate account that you set up. 6. since none of your kin wants to do this and you get to be the Exec, you have to determine how things are separate equally between the three of you......good luck with that. So on a side note, here is what I would do right after she passes away or the house becomes vacant and the new owner hasn't moved in. Clean out anything that will spoil or rot! The last thing you need is a house that stinks of rotten crap. And finally..........TRACK EVERYTHING you do......especially when it comes to money or valuable items. You will need a paper trail in case someone says something. Of course, your situation is different than mine so somethings may not be correct......always ask your lawyer about stuff you don't understand. HTH
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Jan 4, 2020 19:13
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A weird time to bump this thread, but your post can probably help someone.
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Jan 5, 2020 01:17
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Repeating some items from Sheep's reply, but notes from my experience (my mom passed away fairly suddenly about a year ago, still closing the estate): I second the advice NOT to get a credit card for estate expenses. There will be some out of pocket for funeral costs, but if you keep receipts there is a chance you will be reimbursed. Alternatively, you could try to crowdfund funeral expenses so you don't have to worry about it. While you are in the hospital, do not sign your name to ANYTHING. If you get power of attorney, then you can safely sign "on behalf of the patient". Otherwise, any labwork, hospice costs, etc can be tied to you. I live in CA and the estate is in FL. My Florida attorney was very helpful in filing paperwork for the estate and found some items I could exempt for immediate cash in pocket, which really helped cover the weird expenses like airfare to visit family (related to the funerals, long story) and lost wages from taking time off work. They indicated that I did have the option to abandon the estate and not file for administrator, but that the estate would just sit in limbo until someone claimed it. Attorneys can be great. Often the funeral director will handle notifying social security and some other tasks like that - I would ask lots of questions if you get to that point. I jumped on handling the estate as soon as possible, but it was quite a lot of work: - KEEP RECEIPTS. If there is anyone in your family buying sandwiches for people after the funeral or chipping in for flowers or a headstone, they can get paid out of the estate - Order lots of death certificates (maybe 5 shorts and 5 longs? When you send copies out to people, they don't always mail them back... although you should request it when you send them!) Most financial organizations will not accept scans or copies - I shopped around for an attorney and eventually retained one with money out of pocket that was reimbursed, although it sounds like you handled this part already - File to get administrator of estate - attorney will guide you through it - So many trips to UPS to get forms notarized - You will receive a tax EIN that you can use to open a special estate account to manage the funds. You will write lots of checks out of this fund, but it helps make sure you aren't losing your own money - There is likely a reimbursement order! In Florida, attorneys are paid first, then funeral expenses, then other people. My attorney did not bother me about funds owed after I paid the retainer, which gave me SEVERAL MONTHS to get funds liquidated from retirement accounts etc and eventually paid out to past legal balances. - Attorney will post notice to creditors. You should forward mail to your address (PO BOX - I did not do that and got a ton of "congrats on your move" coupons addressed to my mom, which was morbid but unexpectedly practical) so you can let the attorney know who you know is owed funds. If creditors do not respond within a certain amount of time, the debt is basically moot. If they do respond, your attorney may try to shake them with additional paperwork. Credit card companies usually just accept the loss at that point as I understand it. - People will respond to creditor claims - your attorney will tell you what checks to write, to who, and for how much. I personally think it's best to field everything through your attorney, even though it's expensive. - Be prepared for weird situations, like missing a title for a car or your parent owing taxes. Not sure if it will apply in your case, buy my mom received alimony (taxable) and did not pay the IRS for years. I was able to consolidate that debt into a single payment and handle it with the estate funds, but if I had not dealt with it before closing the estate, I would have inherited that debt. Something to keep in mind is that it will feel like there is A LOT going on. Take time to take care of yourself... estate issues aren't necessarily urgent. You're going to start getting lots of good and bad advice. Your family may grieve in unexpected ways and start saying things like "we should doctor x" or telling you that you need to hire a different attorney or give money to a particular person. After time is passed, they may also forget that they left you in charge and grow resentful (Monday morning quarterbacking it).I've also seen families operate very well under these conditions, so you may not even have to worry about that at all. But... on paper, I would plan for the worst. You really never know, especially with loss of a parent. Also, if you are in the position to do so, take advantage of hospice nurse advice! They are, in my experience, a very caring set of people. I had a combination of family friends who work in the field and hospice nurses at my mom's facility who were very happy to explain ANYTHING that I asked of them, whether financial, logistic, or medical. I hope this was useful in reinforcing some of the prior advice - I know pieces of it are off topic from the original post, but are embedded in the experience for me.
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Jan 18, 2020 10:07
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