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As a foreword, I decided I wanted to try making this thread but I'm traveling so for now this isn't formatted, on Sunday I'll be at a computer and I'll make it better (insert images instead of just a link, bold sections, etc). Sorry in advance y'all but I'm drunk at the airport before getting on a plane to LGA so you get what you get, if you're curious what an actuary does for fun I'm switching between reading an E&Y white paper on ASU 2018-12 AKA LDTI and playing stardew valley I've performed a gross posting valuation on the forums and while our post count is sufficient we have some posting followed by nonposting; to ensure sufficiency until the end of the forum's expected life I'm establishing a new thread. Welcome to the actuary (hopefully mega)thread, I'm going to cover everything I can think of but hopefully some more actuaries come through and correct/supplement my knowledge. I'll update this whenever new people and info pop up. Let's start with the cast: Hoshi - GAAP Reporting, pre-ASA What is an actuary? Actuaries are professionals that develop and manage insurance products. There are three industries they fall into: Property and Casualty (P&C), Life and annuities (Life), and healthcare. I've had exposure to the first two so for now this thread will focus on those. Actuaries pass a series of professional exams according to their industry to obtain a credential, at which point they are a member of a professional organization. This is a critical aspect of the job as it's the basis for our self-regulation. There's also pension actuaries, but it's a dying field that's almost all consultants now and is being eaten up by a new kind of annuity business called Pension Risk Transfer. Finally it would be wrong of me not to mention reinsurance, where an insurer cedes a portion of its business to another company. There are many reasons a company may do this - to free up capital is one, or the reinsurer may feel they have the underwriting or investment experience to purchase the business and make a profit, just to name some. This is distinct from the work people do at direct insurers, even though at the end they might both technically be in the same industry. Where do actuaries work? You'll find postings in most major insurance markets - Hartford, NYC, Chicago, Toronto, Des Moines, and some places in Texas are hotspots. There are other places but those are the largest ones by far in North America What organizations do they belong to? NB: I'll cover the international orgs I know but this will be heavily biased toward the US. UK: IFoA - The International Faculty of Actuaries, they have their own exam structure that I'm not familiar with, but they have reciprocity with American organizations Canada: CIA - The Canadian Institute of Actuaries, their exam structure is tied much more closely to the US ones US: CAS - The Casualty Actuary Society, the one responsible for credentialing P&C Actuaries SOA - The Society of Actuaries, the one responsible for credentialing Life and Health Actuaries (there's a general insurance track that's supposed to contend with the CAS but it hasn't gotten traction and I don't have any reason to believe it will) AAA - The American Academy of Actuaries, gives people the MAAA which is necessary for certain regulatory hurdles, like signing off on rates. Merely requires membership in either the SOA or CAS, and of course some nominal annual dues The Credentialing Process In the US there are two levels of credentials - Associateship and Fellowship - which require a rigorous series of exams. Some of these are passed during college, and new college graduates may have anything from 2 exams to their Associateship, depending on their internship experience and their university's actuarial science program. Once you enter the workforce companies generally give you a fair amount of paid study time to take for every exam attempt, plus they pay the exam expenses. To cover the US options the credentials are: ASA - Associate of the Society of Actuaries ACAS - Associate of the Casualty Actuary Society FSA - Fellow of the Society of Actuaries FCAS - Fellow of the Casualty Actuary Society That's way more tests than a CPA, why would anyone do that? Actuaries generally enjoy great professional autonomy and whatever work/life balance they choose once they are established in the profession. There's also the pay: https://www.dwsimpson.com/salary Alright I'm sold, sign me up! Hold on there buckaroo, it's not that easy. The entry level market is oversaturated, there are a few things you'll need to even be considered: - a four year quantitative degree with a GPA of at least 3.2 - at least two exams passed on your own or in school (while people may even graduate with their ASA, what really matters is the ability to pass exams, all entry level are equally useless) - some amount of internship experience, the closer to insurance the better I tried writing more but I found myself getting into a lot of minutia that no one may care about, so at this point I think it'll be easier to proceed by seeing what questions people have and what any other actuary posters want to contribute. As it says at the top I'm pre-ASA, so while I have a few years of experience under my belt it's really only in annuity valuation (with some P&C knowledge from an internship), I'm not sure I've seen anyone post about being an actuary before so hopefully some people come out of the woodwork to participate. In closing I want to emphasize that this is an exceedingly small profession, please post responsibly. Let's have fun, commiserate, joke around, but there are lines you know better than to cross, I'll use doxxing as an obvious example but goons are creative so I'm not going to try to outline every possible scenario, just use your best judgement.
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Nov 27, 2019 20:53
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Know why I'm studying to be a CPA? Because I'm not smart enough to be an actuary! What thread tag do you want?
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Nov 27, 2019 21:57
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Hoshi posted:The Credentialing Process Do healthcare (or pension) actuaries go with one of these society's credentials?
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Nov 28, 2019 02:39
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Finally, a thread where I know I belong.
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Nov 29, 2019 18:24
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I took the first exam after finishing my math degree and said gently caress studying any more of this poo poo and I'm glad I did.
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Dec 4, 2019 03:13
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kimbo305 posted:Do healthcare (or pension) actuaries go with one of these society's credentials? The CAS is for general insurance (house, car, stuff like that), also called P&C (property and casualty) The SOA is for everything else (life insurance, health insurance, pension, investment). The first 4 exams or so of both organizations are the same, after that you need to choose one of the two societies. You become an ACAS after a total of about 7 exams in the CAS, and a FCAS after about 10. You become an ASA after about 7 exams in the SOA, and a FSA after about 10. I say "about" because exams often merge or split, and a few exams have become basically online courses with word/excel reports. Most of the exams have about 40%-60% pass rates. I've been a FSA for 5 years, so I'm not that familiar about the latest exam structure changes.
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Dec 10, 2019 04:13
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During the financial crisis when I was looking for work fresh out of my MBA a bigshot from Aon was like "you're a quant and you have a personality? I want you to be one of my actuaries" And honestly, I kinda have some regrets turning that down.
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Dec 20, 2019 22:03
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Running With Spoons posted:Most of the exams have about 40%-60% pass rates. Do people have meaningful work at each exam level?
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Dec 27, 2019 02:30
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kimbo305 posted:Do people have meaningful work at each exam level? I work at a reinsurer in Canada, and the work is challenging, meaningful and fun at all levels. At reinsurance/insurance companies, they really want FSAs. They will pay for your exams, give you study days and raises. However, if for whatever reason, you want to give up on exams, you’ll be an actuarial analyst forever or have to switch to another department. In consulting gigs, from what I understand, they won't care as much about the exams as long as you put in a lot of hours of good work, but I don't think the work is as meaningful, especially for analysts.
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Dec 28, 2019 07:29
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Running With Spoons posted:I work at a reinsurer in Canada, and the work is challenging, meaningful and fun at all levels. Being I'm not an actuary and I only sort of pay attention to it I'm not sure what the precise titles vs exams are. I think Actuarial Analysts are non-certified, Actuary I is ASA, and Actuary II is FSA. I'd have to check the org chart against signatures/google though. We had a big actuarial title change "alignment" last year, as each division was using their own title for actuaries and it was confusing...After our chief actuary was elevated to C suite, they resolved company-wide title alignment. The actuaries are paid really well, too. It's definitely a lot more profitable than accounting. And the hours are generally a lot better, probably because the actuarial culture isn't the same as Big4 accounting (I'm a CPA...). It's funny/depressing watching the Big4 actuarial auditors/consultants vs accounting auditors/consultants - one group puts in a LOT more hours than the other. My cube in 2018-2019 was next to the conference room the actuarial consultants occupied, and a few cubes down from the conference rooms the accounting auditors occupied, so I got to see the difference first hand.
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Jan 20, 2020 21:35
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Sorry I've been neglectful of this thread but my new year's resolution is to really get it into shape. Watch this space y'all, my reporting for the year is basically done so I have hours to fill. I'll post a more dedicated analysis of the US market based on my experience so far later but generally people in this day and age are expected to get their FSA. The days of terminal associateships are over, at least if you're going to remain in a proper actuarial role.
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Jan 20, 2020 22:28
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Hoshi posted:[My] reporting for the year is basically done so I have hours to fill.
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Jan 20, 2020 22:37
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SiGmA_X posted:Ha nice! My friends in [external] financial reporting and investment accounting are all at work today, on a holiday. Lucky them! But they only had to work a little on Saturday because of the extra day of work provided by the holiday, so...it's a win? This post is coming from inside the office That I only worked five hours this past weekend is a testament to my process design, it's very validating to see things run like the well oiled machine you tried to put together
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Jan 20, 2020 22:42
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bumping this dead thread to find a job. Is there an industry job board/preferred aggregator or should I be looking at individual companies and applying directly?
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Jun 23, 2023 22:02
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How do I find an actuarial job? More info: I am a career changer from teaching and have passed exams P and FM. Leaning towards P&C and currently using LinkedIn, Indeed, Monster, Zip Recruiter, and going to individual websites of large companies to find openings. Using "actuarial" "actuarial assistant" and "actuarial analyst" to search Any suggestions?
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Jun 23, 2023 22:14
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best bale posted:bumping this dead thread to find a job. Is there an industry job board/preferred aggregator or should I be looking at individual companies and applying directly? If you have a few years of experience it might be easiest to just contact a recruiter and let them help search. I'm not sure if they help career changers or entry level, there might not be demand since company pipelines from universities are very strong. I'm assuming anyone posting on this dead forum is too far out of school to get their university career center to help out.
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Jun 23, 2023 22:52
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Recruiters won't touch EL typically, especially not job changers. They're otherwise a decent route. The day you get your first credential is the day they won't leave you alone. I've found indeed works best in Canada, followed by LinkedIn. Glassdoor and monster are bleh. Actuaries that pass exams and touch computers are a dime a dozen. Your alternate background can be an advantage, especially since you're passing exams. Use it to highlight your other skills.
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Jun 24, 2023 20:25
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As others have said, recruiters will not be much help as a lot of entry level hiring is done through formal programs and EL actuaries don’t generally produce a lot of value for their first few years. Unfortunately this is the worst possible time of year as the new batch of fresh grads will all have just started. Open slots for the remainder of the year will be the handful of new openings that get approved at big firms off-cycle, plus all the smaller firms that don’t have formal programs. Career changers do have a leg up over fresh grads since a good number of actuarial/math students have never had a real job before and there is a huge difference between passing two exams while working full time and passing N exams in college. Make sure the dates of exam passing are obvious on your resume. Teachers are like 1/3 of the career changers that I’ve seen and seeing a teaching resume is a good indication that you have above-average (for this field) interpersonal skills. I can’t speak for other firms but at mine if you have two exams, a STEM degree, and full time experience your application will absolutely get looked at by a hiring manager eventually. Hit up all the application systems for every carrier, broker, and reinsurer you can think of. University job fairs also work, even if you didn’t go there, but you have some time before those kick off again. I’ve seen a couple people have luck with cold emailing resumes but that is risky and it’s hard as an outsider to even know who to email. And of course, if you know someone in the industry, now’s the time to shamelessly get back in touch with them.
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Jun 25, 2023 02:29
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Thanks for the responses. I feel cautiously encouraged and now I know not to spend time with recruiters. I didn't think about how all the jobs would have just been taken up by recent grads but that seems so obvious now. I have some friend of friends that might be able to get my resume not immediately thrown away and I am going to keep applying like crazy. Should I be continuing to progress with exams at the same time or let that wait until I'm hired; what I mean is, will passing 1 or 2 more exams help with landing a job even if I still have no experience in the field?
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Jun 25, 2023 20:30
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Cillian is my bf posted:Thanks for the responses. I feel cautiously encouraged and now I know not to spend time with recruiters. I didn't think about how all the jobs would have just been taken up by recent grads but that seems so obvious now. I'd say yes continue if it isn't breaking your bank. Your employer will typically cover it once hired, but IMO the big concern with a job hopper is just that they're not serious and might bail as they get harder. More exams alleviates that. That said, it's in a spectrum. I started some years back now with 2 as a switcher. I'd be worried now about exam creep having pushed that up. I can guarantee some won't care and I'd say 2 is where most folks would start accepting you're serious, and 3 seals the deal. Definitely do not stop applying while that continues.
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Jun 25, 2023 21:10
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I’m not as tied to the space anymore but two good pieces of advice for career changers are 1) network your rear end off and 2) don’t quit your job or intentionally stay unemployed while actuarial job hunting or studying for exams. The former is by far the easiest way to get hired at smaller companies and the latter is a big red flag to a hiring manager.
Virtue fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jun 26, 2023 |
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Jun 25, 2023 22:27
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I met a career switcher at an actuarial club event and we hired her for an opening. Dunno how likely that was but I guess it's worth doing. Actuaries are such a small community that networking probably works better than in most professions. Also look at company websites and apply through there.
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Jul 15, 2023 23:39
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