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Made a few of these threads over the years and I figured it was time to make another one. My wife and I decided once we got our vaccinations that we would travel as much as possible she went to see her family and I decided to go see my Uncle in Cleveland and convince him to go on the road with me. I haven't seen him since covid hit and so it was a welcome visit. He is basically the person who made me who I am, I got booted out at a young age and the only place I had to go was to sleep in a cot in my uncle's pool hall. He taught me how to hustle, how to survive, and how to live on the road. I went on the road in my early 20's and it defined who I am today I was able to retire early because of the investments I made with the money I won in pool. He had already been vaccinated and was ready to travel just like I was. So we started putting feelers out for games. I was able to find quite a few takers in the Sacramento and Reno area. I have always wanted to check out the area of the west coast so we flew to Sacramento and my uncle Frank was the money man and the setup guy. He did all the talking I just showed up and played pool. A lot of times I would show up a few hours after him and he would have a few games lined up for the whole night. It was pretty easy for the first few weeks I played mostly small money games anywhere from 50 to 100 per game . No real hustling needed yet and basically just me getting my shot back and sharpening my plays. Most people only wanted to play one race to 10 so there wasn't an opportunity to push the limit higher. Most of the players we encountered were really nice and just happy to be out shooting again. After 12 days of shooting in Sacramento, we profited 2.5k so not a bad first few weeks. I split it with my uncle and we decided to take the scenic route to Reno.I have been to Vegas more times than I can remember but in all the years I have been going to Vegas not once did I ever see Reno. The drive was the most terrifying and exhilarating thing I have ever done we had to stop about halfway up the mountain to get snow chains on our tires which is something I forgot existed the stops along the way for pictures and sights were breathtaking. We finally made it to Reno after taking some time to check out Lake Tahoe. We checked in and went straight to the floor to gamble. We found a fun craps table and hung out there the rest of the night. The next morning Frank started his scouting mission to find me a few games. After putting out some feelers frank finally found me a game at this old-school billiard hall. He tells me to be there no later than 7 pm. I go for a run to clear my head and then take a nap for the rest of the day so I can be refreshed for an all-nighter. I wake up eat a quick dinner and head to the pool hall. It's very dark and there is only one table with a light on over it the owner eventually turns on all the lights and I get a good look at the place and it's your typical pool hall it's depressing, it's dusty, and I can smell the old cigarettes from some of the ashtrays. Believe it or not, that soothes my soul and makes me feel comfortable. Frank goes over and talks to the guy a little bit and they come to terms on race to 10 with 100 a game. I meet a scrawny kid named chip who is a pretty nice kid and a little goofy and he lets me know that if I need any food or drinks just let him know and he will take care of me. Frank brought a bottle of scotch and asked if it was ok if we drank this for the night and they didn't care. Most of the time these people are here for the show so they tend to let us do our own thing Finally, after about an hour of bullshitting and a couple of scotches the guy I am shooting shows up. Big Bald dude named Tito and he has an entourage in tow of 5 people. He saw me shooting walked right up to me and greeted me. Shook my hand said he was ready when I was and told me which table we were playing on. I finished the rack that was on the table and walked over to get started. We shoot for the break and his ball is closest to the baulk and he gets the first break. He wins the first 2 games with some impressive shooting and I am down $200. In the third game, he leaves himself an almost impossible shot on the 8 and leaves the table wide open after he misses and I run out and take game 3 I am now only down $100. I break and run on game 4 and we are even once I get to even I am in the zone and take the next 5 games. Just little things happen that I can tell are starting to get to Tito. He is making minor mental mistakes at the table and getting increasingly frustrated. I am thinking to myself it's more nerves than anything for him because I saw his hand shake a little after he missed a shot and he has quite the sweat buildup on his lip. We take a break so I can piss and smoke a joint outside and Frank joins me and says that he thinks they might want to up the limit if I throw a couple of games his way and keep it close. I lose the next 6 games putting Tito up $100 Tito has gotten his swagger back and seems to be needling me a little bit. I let him keep winning taking a few games here or there but eventually, he gets up 1k on me and he has been needling me pretty hard in between games. I let him know I wanna grab some food and take a break for about an hour while we are waiting for the food I can hear him bragging to his entourage and talking poo poo about me. I walk over to him and tell him I have had enough of the poo poo talking lets just play for 1k a game. He jumps at the chance and I eat my food head outside to smoke another joint and Frank walks out and laughs and says I jumped the gun but it might not matter his ego is pretty out of control. After all is said and done I end up taking about 6500 from him. After I beat him 7 times in a row he had 500 left I told him I would put up 1k to his 500 and he agreed and I took that too. As soon as the 8 dropped I grabbed the money off the light rack I settled my bill up with the owner and headed back to the room. Didn't even give Tito the chance to speak to me because that guy isn't worth my time. We got back to the room and I gave frank his cut. Our total for the month of March on the road is +9k. We flew back to Cleveland for Easter and tomorrow we are headed to Chicago for a road trip that will take us to Indiana, Illinois, Minneapolis, and Iowa. Some of my old stomping grounds when I was on the road in my 20's so I am excited about seeing that part of the country. I have some more stories from my time back here in Cleveland that I will tell in the next post. I am also open to answering any questions or if you guys want to talk about billiards or snooker or whatever. I am just going to be spending a lot of time in a hotel so I figured what better way to kill time than just write about it.
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Apr 5, 2021 18:43
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| # ? May 8, 2024 18:16 |
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I took a class on billiards in college, and looking back on that course I can say that Donald Duck taught me more on the subject.
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Apr 5, 2021 19:54
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I somehow have missed your other threads so thank you for posting this one! Probably a lot of repeats, but here goes. When you or you and your uncle roll into town and start asking around for games, do people just assume that they are better than you, rather than see you as a legit road shark who will take their roll? How do you handle security? I imagine if you took 5-10K off a guy, especially a guy with a posse they are going to be pretty pissed about it, and might want to get it back not via a game. Another security question, if you roll into town and ask about games, you find a player, but some sketchy person hears about it and they assume you will each have 5K on you, how does a game not get robbed? Is what you described with the guy in Reno pretty much standard? As in, you play a few to get in groove, crush him for a bit, but take your foot of the gas to boost their confidence to up the stakes?
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Apr 6, 2021 05:09
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yeah i always wondered if it was just pure ego that prevented people from realizing some dude wanting to play you for 10x the money after you're +10 games ahead is trying to hustle you. i'm guessing its just the ego thing. but also has it ever happened where you're sandbagging and then you realize the other guy's been sandbagging as well? how high would you rank your skill? also, you really win +2500 at 100 games a pop? 
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Apr 6, 2021 08:36
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Edward Mass posted:I took a class on billiards in college, and looking back on that course I can say that Donald Duck taught me more on the subject. What was taught in those classes and was there a table set up the whole time? I am fascinated by this. Mr. Toodles posted:I somehow have missed your other threads so thank you for posting this one! Probably a lot of repeats, but here goes. When you or you and your uncle roll into town and start asking around for games, do people just assume that they are better than you, rather than see you as a legit road shark who will take their roll? How do you handle security? I imagine if you took 5-10K off a guy, especially a guy with a posse they are going to be pretty pissed about it, and might want to get it back not via a game. Another security question, if you roll into town and ask about games, you find a player, but some sketchy person hears about it and they assume you will each have 5K on you, how does a game not get robbed? Is what you described with the guy in Reno pretty much standard? As in, you play a few to get in groove, crush him for a bit, but take your foot of the gas to boost their confidence to up the stakes? We had a black book that has contacts and friendly gambling bars all over the country so a lot of the time we reference that. It's been handed down for generations and started with my great grandfather. The original book was about to turn to dust when my Uncle Frank just made a new one by handwriting it on a new notebook. Now I just have it in an excel sheet and I use that, it has the names of people that my family knows like owners of pool halls, bars, gambling establishments illegal or legal, and other road players we have encountered good or bad. So while we are driving around or flying or whatever we just always do a bit of research and start grouping together places we can call and places we might want to avoid due to whatever reasons. Things, like not friendly to gamblers, drugs dens, gangs, maybe someone we know, got robbed there just things like that. Frank puts out feelers and even goes and scouts out the places a lot of time with people we know in the area. He just lets them know his nephew is in town looking for some games. They put out their feelers and the next thing you know we have a match setup. Sometimes it's on their terms and sometimes we just decide the terms when we meet up. If they ask for something ridiculous like a handicap or whatever or maybe they have some wonky rules that I am not gonna gently caress around with we just usually walk and let them chase us, sometimes we strike a deal, and sometimes we never hear from them. If you find your local billiard hall or places where leagues play you will find money games. There is always a guy who either wants to prove himself or is just a degenerate and I welcome them all. When I was younger I use to have a guy named Damon who would hold the money. You did not wanna gently caress with Damon he was a badass boxer turned drug dealer who got out of that life at the exact right time. He was looking for a job I offered him 25% and expenses paid to have my back. He was well known in parts of Cleveland that I couldn't get access to. He got me into those places and we cleaned up and became really close and I still see him when I go back to Cleveland. He did everything with the money when I was shooting so good luck robbing him. We both did carry guns back then mine was usually in the car his was always in the bag but thankfully we never had to use it. The thing about most of these pool halls is a lot of these guys are regulars and you don't want to make a pool hall look bad because you robbed someone or wanna kick everyone's rear end when you lose. You will get blacklisted real quick if you can't handle yourself and some of these guys' whole social life are these places. Where you really want to be careful is dive bars or certain types of clubs. I was in a motorcycle club and hustled a guy and instead of leaving when I should have left I continued to talk poo poo with the guy and one guy hit me in the back of the head with a pool stick another guy stabbed my knee with a knife and when I came too I was on the ground outside my car in a plaza away from the place. They robbed me completely but thankfully I had money hidden in the wheel well and I got that and drove myself to the hospital got stitched up and went home to get a lecture from Frank. I have had many of those lectures over the years for bad decisions and I deserved it every time. That was the only time I have ever been robbed most of the time I have either talked my way out of it or just dipped at the right time to prevent anything from happening. I have an uncanny ability to read people and situations it's got me out of trouble a lot. Every person I shoot is different and it also depends on my mood. I have been known to be angry about something else and just go crush the dude immediately out of pure spite costing me money but again it's situational. If the guy brings a girlfriend with him I usually can drag him along for a lot of money because he doesn't want to lose in front of her. There are also times where it's a guy that I know is top tier and there is no fooling around we both bring our best game and just see who is really better. Strong Sauce posted:yeah i always wondered if it was just pure ego that prevented people from realizing some dude wanting to play you for 10x the money after you're +10 games ahead is trying to hustle you. i'm guessing its just the ego thing. Ego is a hell of a drug I have a huge one that thankfully my wife helps me keep it in check and now that I am older I can control it more but yeah like you said it's just an ego thing. Most of these guys have huge egos like me and if you are inexperienced you won't realize what's happening. It can also be a form of tilting and just playing out of pure anger and spite like in poker. I was shooting a girl in Cleveland and I was absolutely taking it easier on her because I was trying to gently caress her and she took me for about 1k before I realized she was way out of my league. It happens and I only get better when it does. It helps me sharpen my skills and also look back at the games and see where I made mistakes and can I correct that or play them differently. Frank is really good about keeping notes on me and the players and then we share that info during breaks or when I am sitting down waiting to shoot or whatever. I am always analyzing and playing games in my head and that sort of thing so when I make a mistake I can go back in my head and replay it differently and get a better outcome eventually it becomes muscle memory I just know what to do in almost every situation. To answer your question about my skill I have never tried to be a pro but I once beat a guy who has his own Wikipedia page because of his status as a pro. Most of my games are with degenerates with money to burn and bad decision-making. Once word gets out in a city that a road player is in town sometimes you get a lot of takers. Just local dudes who think they can survive on the road and want to challenge me or they think they are king poo poo in the city and wanna defend its honor or whatever. Sacramento was a good city for young frat dudes with money and big egos it was easy pickings I really liked that city and the west coast I cant wait to get back out there. We are in Chicago now and I am just high as balls right now so I apologize if I missed any questions or I am rambling.
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Apr 7, 2021 03:47
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jase1 posted:What was taught in those classes and was there a table set up the whole time? I am fascinated by this. There were several tables set up! Apart from learning the various games one can play on a pool table, there was a lot of theory and strategy regarding how to play billiards. I'm a drama major, though, so I remember more about the works of Ibsen and Chekov then how much English to apply to a cue ball.
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Apr 7, 2021 19:12
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I need to find a local college that still teaches that and sit in on the theory and strategy stuff. I wonder if just basic or is super deep.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:11
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How often if ever do you run into people who quickly realise they're hosed and stop? Is the jump in stakes usually more gradual and some games taking days like the movies? Thanks for the stories!
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Apr 8, 2021 16:53
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ohhhh hey cool jase1 I forgot about you and your road pool stories until I saw this thread. Nice! I always like hearing this stuff. Do you ever play with the pool house's cues, or do you always have your own fancy expensive one you get out for each game?
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Apr 10, 2021 01:39
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Jase any idea where you’ll be playing in Minneapolis? I’d love to come watch the show once I get my second shot E: I suppose this sort of question is irresponsible and you’d be subjecting yourself to doxxing etc. please disregard Tetramin fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Apr 11, 2021 |
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Apr 11, 2021 03:38
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jase1 posted:she took me for about 1k before I realized she was way out of my league. you're talking about pool, skill-wise right 
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Apr 11, 2021 04:07
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I think I asked this before but I can't remember the answer: If you're that good at pool, did you ever try to just be a legit pro? If not, how come? I'm guessing, and this isn't meant as an insult at all, that it's your skill level is like "better than anyone any of us will meet in real life" but the actual pros are on another level above that? (I assume this is true of like chess hustlers as well) Or is it just like a lifestyle thing and you don't actually make that much money as a pro so why bother Can you do like all the fancy trick shots and poo poo like masse or jump shots and stuff? Do they ever have any real useful applications when you are trying your best to win or are they just for showing off? Stefan Prodan fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Apr 13, 2021 |
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Apr 13, 2021 00:33
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I recall seeing a video of a chess grandmaster play against a chess hustler that didn't know who he was (and who attempted to double move a piece during the match) and wreck the hustler, yeah.
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Apr 13, 2021 03:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5vnpOp0U_g
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Apr 13, 2021 06:18
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Sorry for the lack of posts. Been in a long grinding gambling binge and haven’t done much but drink gamble repeat and maybe an occasional nap. My uncle and I have basically hit every casino we could find in the Midwest. I’m going to be taking a few days to rest up and sober up and then I’ll post some stories and answer those questions.
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Apr 15, 2021 20:29
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Still making the circuit, or back home?
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May 24, 2021 02:58
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Hope you made it home in one piece, slick
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Jul 12, 2021 22:11
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Sorry for so long of an update. I ended up having a few business deals come through at the last minute and I had to focus all my energy on that until it was all set up and running. I ended up purchasing 2 farms and their dispensaries in Oregon and it took all my time focusing on that. So most of these stories are from a few months ago when I wasn't dealing with that. I spent most of my time on the west coast finding all sorts of small pool halls and dive bars it was really fun my uncle and I flew into Seattle and decided to go to a pretty small town not too far from Seattle. I had a few contacts in the area that knew my grandfather and they were able to spread the word and get me a few players lined up. I met my contacts and we went to dinner so they could give me the ins and outs of the kind of players and play type I would be facing. They let me know there was this guy there name big rig who every was in awe of and they considered him to be the best player in the area so he is the guy I eventually want to face but I want to get some games under my belt to just get the feel for the area and players. I get in contact with one of the players to set up stakes and when and where we should play. He said there was a local bar that had a few tables and he would make sure a table was free for us so we could play all night if need be. We decided on a race to 10 for 1k in 9 ball. I walk into the bar and meet the guy at the table and he introduces himself as Mike D and we exchange pleasantries he throws in a few hints that he hasn't shot in a while and might be rusty and I assume that's bullshit because he was constantly being greeted by everyone that was in the bar and he had a pretty confident aura coming off him. We lag for who breaks and he wins the lag and goes on to beat me 3 straight games in about 20 mins. I didn't get much of a chance to shoot at the table because he had a few lucky 9 ball placements helping him win 2 games almost instantly. At this point I usually expect some form of ego to escape him but he was being pretty humble about the whole thing which is a change of pace from most players. He finally leaves me a shot and I end taking the next game making 3-1. He racks them up really tight which is an amateur move and I make the 9 on the snap and it's 3-2. He racks them up again really tight and I get the 9 ball moving on the break and it settles right in front of the pocket and it takes me 3 shots to win the next rack tying it up. I am expecting some trash-talking or pushback but he takes it all in stride and is really cool. We actually start conversing while having a few drinks and we become pretty friendly throughout the match. He wins the next rack making it 3-4 and then I make another 9 on the snap making 4-4. He asks me how the hell do I keep doing that and I let him know I am just being blessed by the pool Gods when in reality he is giving me these amazing racks that are tight as hell and giving me the advantage when I break. At this point, either his wife or girlfriend shows up and it changes his whole demeanor. He becomes very nervous and twitchy and I am not sure what's going on but he asks if he can take a 20 min breather and I tell him sure. Frank and I walk out to smoke a joint and go over what he sees and what I see and figure out if there is anything I need to be wary of. We are kind of standing off to the side against the building around the corner smoking and we can hear a conversation that is getting more and more heated. I poke my head around the wall and it's Mike D and this girl arguing about something. I position myself in a better area so I can hear what they are arguing about and she is just laying into him about he was supposed to be at work and she can't believe he called off again because he is going to lose his job. I kind of chuckle to myself because now I got some ammunition I can use if need be to gently caress with him. They get into a bit of a shouting match and she storms off and he heads back inside. I head back in and we continue the match and he is just way too emotional to get back into this game. I end up beating him in the next 4 racks pretty easily making it 8-4 and he asks if we can stop shooting and pick this up tomorrow. I let him know that isn't possible to either finish the match or he forfeits and he says in a really angry tone lets just finish this loving thing so I can leave. I win the next 2 racks making it 10-4 and he hands me my 1k and storms off. Frank and I celebrate with a couple of shots and stick around to gently caress around on the table until the bar closes. A little later in the night Mike D shows back up with an entourage drunk out of his gourd and says he is here to get his money back. I assume at first he meant he wants a rematch but very quickly I see that I might be in danger. There are 4 guys behind Mike and they do not look happy. Frank puts his hand on my shoulder and says we should probably take off right now the only problem is we are at the back of the bar and have to walk past them to get to the exit. I ask Mike if he wants to shoot and he says nah I'll just take my 1k and you will be on your way. I let him know that's not an option and we will just leave so there is no issue. I walk towards him trying to leave and he squares up and I take a few steps back and say is this how it's gonna be. He says that road players aren't allowed in this town and they are gonna teach us a lesson. I grab a stick and get ready for a brawl when I see the bouncer push his way past Mike and get in between us and say Mike I think it's time you and your buddies take off. Mike doesn't budge and I tell the bouncer it's not an issue just let us leave. The bouncer escorts me to the bar I pay my tab we start to head back to our hotel in Seattle and on our way out of the town, we get pulled over by a state trooper who says he understands we took some money off his son. I tell him I am not sure what he is talking about and he says this is the only warning you will get. Leave this town and never come back or you will not be so lucky next time. The trooper lets us go but follows us all the way out of town and we make it back to the hotel unscathed. I call my contact and let him know what happened and he apologizes profusely and said he had no idea. I mark this town on the list of stay the gently caress away and Frank and I drink until we pass out. I want to answer some questions that you guys asked because there are a few that I never answered. Bill Door posted:How often if ever do you run into people who quickly realise they're hosed and stop? Is the jump in stakes usually more gradual and some games taking days like the movies? I usually don't have anyone stop but I can read people pretty well and it happens quite a bit where there is just this change in their demeanor from having fun to oh poo poo I am hosed. It depends on what type of games I am playing if I walk into a random bar the stakes can be gradual until they are in over their head or they are out of money. If I set up a game the stakes are usually agreed to before we meet up. I have played a few 36-hour sessions with a couple of breaks to eat and nap in between but with my age, it would be a lot harder for me to do that now. I can still play poker for days with no issue but pool really does a number on my hands and knees and I need rest to be able to shoot properly. Stefan Prodan posted:I think I asked this before but I can't remember the answer: If you're that good at pool, did you ever try to just be a legit pro? If not, how come? I scooped out being a pro once when I was 23 and I don't really know if I have what it takes or not but the reason I never took my shot is that I hate all these rules and bullshit you have to go through just to become a pro and then the money isn't really that good. I could go to a pool tournament and find players to gamble with and win 10x what the tourney winner is getting in just a few days of shooting. A few years ago there was an Asian pro pool player with his own Wikipedia page that I beat for 25k. He was overseas touring the states and he happened to walk into my uncle's pool hall in Cleveland looking for a game. I flew into Cleveland from Florida on that Friday night and cleaned him out and was back on a plane Sunday morning headed back home. That gave me hope that I could hang with the pros but my ego always tells me I am the best player I the room anywhere I go.
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Sep 11, 2021 05:44
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On average, supposing you could shoot in any ball you wanted, normal 14.1 rules, how many balls on average would you say you generally make in a row before it's the other person's turn?
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Sep 11, 2021 06:02
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I haven’t played straight pool in probably 15 or 20 years. I bet I could make more than 50 in a row with no problem. I have ran the table 4 or 5 times in a row back in my early days but I know that’s really not the same. I think the record is like in the 400 hundreds or maybe it’s higher now. This makes me want to try it though and see what I can do.
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Sep 11, 2021 06:18
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Is it common for players to do things like sic their cop friends on you and come rolling up with a gang for such piddling stakes as a kilobuck? That seems like the sort of thing you don't resort to for less than five figgies. On the other hand if Mike is such a bum that he's in danger of being fired for skipping out to play pool $1000 might be worth it to him.
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Sep 13, 2021 01:43
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It’s a rarity that’s for sure. I believe it was a mixture of being upset that he was losing the money he probably needed for other important stuff and also personal poo poo embarrassing him at his home spot. Ego is a hell of a thing in hustling so he may have just hit a breaking point and lost his poo poo. He could also just be the town idiot who always gets his daddy to bail him out. Now everyone I know in the little hustling community will know to stay away from him and that town. Usually there is a set of ethics you follow which sounds dumb but it’s how it is. Things like putting up the money first so you know they have it. Most of the time it’s on the light rack or a third party holds it. No messing with the player while shooting, things like getting in direct eye line on purpose, talking to the player during their shot, bumping the table or players stick, standing super close to impede the player. It’s ok to be a sore loser even call me a few names but that’s about as far as you can take it. Threats or stuff like that and it will turn ugly real quick. It’s basically a set of unwritten rules sometimes I go to places and they don’t follow the rules and you just have to adapt or leave. I don’t ever mind poo poo talking during my shot it’s hard to distract me and if you stand too close I just make sure my stick hits you in the nuts or stomach or whatever. Once they see I don’t give a poo poo it usually stops.
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Sep 13, 2021 02:20
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Just wanted to say I have followed your stories for years, Jase, and they always entertain! I get most excited any time I see you post up a new pool story, as I am a bad but love to have fun pool player, but the rest is really great as well! Always hoping for more when you think of them or come by them, and I have said it before in past threads but no matter what, thanks!
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Sep 13, 2021 11:23
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