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 Before we take on Hyrule Castle, we need to delve into the Pit of Amiibo Exclusivity.
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Feb 18, 2022 21:07
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I can't say I'm terribly impressed with the Cave of Shadows but on the other hand if it was something substantial then people would be pissed for it being locked behind the amiibo paywall.
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Feb 19, 2022 20:13
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Judge Tesla posted:I can't say I'm terribly impressed with the Cave of Shadows but on the other hand if it was something substantial then people would be pissed for it being locked behind the amiibo paywall. It's definitely got the feel of the old Gamestop pre-order bonus to it. Also shows way too much of wolf combat which shows there isn't much to wolf combat.
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Feb 20, 2022 01:38
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The Cave of Shadows is the only thing I've never played in this game, and it doesn't look terribly interesting. I guess that's probably for the best, but I remember being so disappointed the first time I saw footage of it and realised this was all the new content amounted to. (The original game was very sparing on wolf-form combat, but as you say, this area really does illustrate there's not a lot of depth to it and they were right to underuse it. Be careful what you wish for, I guess.) On the other hand, the Breath of the Wild connectivity feature is neat, and one of the few times Nintendo have bothered living up to the potential they claimed amiibo have. It doesn't actually matter all that much, though, because the way damage is calculated in BotW, raw hearts aren't actually going to give him much durability once you're out of the very early game because Wolf Link has no defence. (Which is probably the best way to handle an extra like this anyway, it seems impressive and cool but tapers off in effectiveness very quickly so it doesn't actually break anything.) (Also, shh, all the various amiibo-spoofing methods can just inject the data for maximum health without the need to play this.)
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Feb 20, 2022 03:10
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Explopyro posted:The Cave of Shadows is the only thing I've never played in this game, and it doesn't look terribly interesting. I guess that's probably for the best, but I remember being so disappointed the first time I saw footage of it and realised this was all the new content amounted to. (The original game was very sparing on wolf-form combat, but as you say, this area really does illustrate there's not a lot of depth to it and they were right to underuse it. Be careful what you wish for, I guess.) Wolf link should be compatible with clothes so we can put him in a little shirt. And so he can have some defense.
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Feb 20, 2022 03:40
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Kibayasu posted:It's definitely got the feel of the old Gamestop pre-order bonus to it. Also shows way too much of wolf combat which shows there isn't much to wolf combat. Yeah, it made me think off the bat "hey why hasn't there been a dungeon focused on wolf stuff?" only to realize "oh because there's not a lot of wolf stuff". Which in retrospect is kind of disappointing. Like, I'm thinking primarily of how Majora's Mask utilized transformations to really change combat around. Twilight Princess' usage of Wolf Link is primarily all story based and the combat boils down to "use Midna, enemies go bye-bye" The Golux posted:Wolf link should be compatible with clothes so we can put him in a little shirt. If you're gonna do that then Midna should be there too, so you can do fun stuff like make her wear the bulky helmet you have to wear for fire protection near the volcano.
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Feb 20, 2022 05:25
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The Golux posted:Wolf link should be compatible with clothes so we can put him in a little shirt. Well, there was that Wolf Link for Animal Crossing New Leaf.
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Feb 20, 2022 10:02
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 One last journey to Hyrule Castle, the long way this time. And next week: the final part and final showdown. Also we're doing a Jackbox today at 2PM Pacific, 5PM Eastern if anyone wants to join in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0ozV6maMvM
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Feb 25, 2022 21:03
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I definitely never realized there was anything up with any of the paintings in Hyrule Castle.
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Feb 26, 2022 05:59
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The three Hyrule Castle themes in this game are some of my favorites in all of Zelda. I love the way that, as you climb through the castle, Ganondorf's Theme starts mixing in until it almost overpowers the proper castle theme.
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Feb 26, 2022 11:19
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I was watching that with half an ear while building Lego so parts of the background music kept sounding like a generic "This is weird" music stinger and it kept tripping me up whenever it came up.
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Feb 26, 2022 12:29
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Since it came up again and I only just remembered the discussion way back in one of the early videos in this LP, about calling currency in video games "dollars/bucks," is that primarily an American thing? I don't watch Japanese LPers but do they ever grab a chest of 20 rupees and say "Oh it's 20 yen"? Because it seems like almost anyone who's American does that, but I don't know if it's universal or if it's just a thing we do.
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Feb 26, 2022 21:30
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Twelve by Pies posted:Since it came up again and I only just remembered the discussion way back in one of the early videos in this LP, about calling currency in video games "dollars/bucks," is that primarily an American thing? I don't watch Japanese LPers but do they ever grab a chest of 20 rupees and say "Oh it's 20 yen"? Because it seems like almost anyone who's American does that, but I don't know if it's universal or if it's just a thing we do. I've heard Brits do the same thing with "quid." Not a Brit myself, though, just something I've noticed every so often.
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Feb 26, 2022 21:54
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Remalle posted:I've heard Brits do the same thing with "quid." Not a Brit myself, though, just something I've noticed every so often. I'm a brit and can confirm that at the very least I do this, I just think its nice to pretend I'm seeing a currency other than dollars/gold in a game.
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Feb 26, 2022 22:59
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They really should have made that bit at the tower at least seem more threatening. They had multiple dark nuts show up in the challenge dungeon, if you hadn't been there before seeing 4 or 5 of those things stomp out along with the archers would have been something. And even if you had seen that final room before you'd at least be thinking "Ah gently caress not this again."
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Feb 27, 2022 05:36
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Kibayasu posted:They really should have made that bit at the tower at least seem more threatening. They had multiple dark nuts show up in the challenge dungeon, if you hadn't been there before seeing 4 or 5 of those things stomp out along with the archers would have been something. And even if you had seen that final room before you'd at least be thinking "Ah gently caress not this again." The cave is supposed to be an optional challenge. It's similar to how the boss in paper mario's pit of 100 trials is harder than the story's final boss. You can't expect anyone who makes it to the castle to have completed t he optional cave.
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Feb 27, 2022 14:30
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Carbon dioxide posted:The cave is supposed to be an optional challenge. It's similar to how the boss in paper mario's pit of 100 trials is harder than the story's final boss. You can't expect anyone who makes it to the castle to have completed t he optional cave. The cave doesn't really matter, I was just using it as an example of what could actually be threatening enough for a cutscene.
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Feb 27, 2022 20:46
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 Hot drat, it felt like this LP would never even start, and here we are finally wrapping it up! It's been a whirlwind, but I hope you folks are as happy with it as I am!
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Mar 4, 2022 21:02
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The thing that stood out to me about the Ganondorf fight in this game is he never really feels threatening or powerful. Like, when he possesses Zelda's body, all he does is just float around for 99% of the time, and then do a very slow diving sword attack, or shoot an energy ball. Same with the pig form which is incredibly slow and just disappears for large portions of time. You're just standing around waiting for Ganondorf to do something. Compare this to the Ganon fight in say, LttP, where he's constantly throwing fire bats at you, you're always on the move, and you're always able to do something to move the fight forward, whether it's trying to get close enough to hit him, chasing down where he's teleporting to, or even lighting the torches to make him vulnerable again. And I know it's a video game and bosses have to be able to be defeated, but it's very silly to me that after you easily bounce back his energy ball, Ganon still decides to keep trying it. Doesn't even switch it up, make it faster, or anything, just the same attack multiple times that he's already seen doesn't work. Again, I know it's just his thing, but when he was posing as Agahnim at least he had multiple attacks to keep you guessing whether it was something reflectable or not, so it wasn't predictable, and Phantom Ganon in OoT was a weak phantom version of Ganon so it makes sense that it isn't really capable of higher thought processes. That said I do agree that overall the game is pretty good, and it's mostly just the final fight that feels bad.
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Mar 4, 2022 21:54
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The fact that you can overpower Ganon while he's all juiced up on the Triforce of Power still gets me. That and Zelda's piece never being relevant aside from ' well someone already has that part' bothers me about the series in general.
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Mar 4, 2022 22:20
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Eh, LttP Link defeated Ganon while he had the entire Triforce, so being able to beat a Ganon with just one piece should be more easily doable. That said I don't think they actually have any Triforce pieces in TP. In fact if I recall, TP is the only Zelda where "Triforce" is never said at any point. The mark on their hands just shows that they're chosen by fate. Zelda II did this too, actually, the Triforce mark appears on the back of Link's hand and he gets freaked out by it and talks to Impa, who tells him about the Triforce of Courage (which was a secret at that point, with only the royal family knowing it existed) and how he needed to go get it to awaken the original Zelda. He didn't actually have the Triforce of Courage, it was sealed in the Great Palace.
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Mar 4, 2022 23:17
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I never knew about the fishing rod trick until now. Or the bottle thing either, but then I suppose that sort of thing goes all the way back to the bug-catching net deflecting Agahnim's shots in A Link to the Past.Twelve by Pies posted:The thing that stood out to me about the Ganondorf fight in this game is he never really feels threatening or powerful. Like, when he possesses Zelda's body, all he does is just float around for 99% of the time, and then do a very slow diving sword attack, or shoot an energy ball. Same with the pig form which is incredibly slow and just disappears for large portions of time. You're just standing around waiting for Ganondorf to do something. Compare this to the Ganon fight in say, LttP, where he's constantly throwing fire bats at you, you're always on the move, and you're always able to do something to move the fight forward, whether it's trying to get close enough to hit him, chasing down where he's teleporting to, or even lighting the torches to make him vulnerable again. I think an even better comparison is In Wind Waker. He never stops being a threat throughout the whole fight; I think it's the only Ganondorf fight I've ever died at since the change to 3D. Sure, you have the counters, but the timing window on them is shorter than usual. And that fight only has one phase. This one has four, and they're all easy. Meaty Ore fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Mar 4, 2022 |
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Mar 4, 2022 23:25
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Congratulations on completing an entertaining LP and condolences on doing the CD-i games.
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Mar 5, 2022 00:18
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kw0134 posted:Congratulations on completing an entertaining LP and condolences on doing the CD-i games. Look on the bright side, she's apparently not doing Zelda's Adventure, which is pretty much the worst of the three.
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Mar 5, 2022 01:58
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Twelve by Pies posted:That said I don't think they actually have any Triforce pieces in TP. In fact if I recall, TP is the only Zelda where "Triforce" is never said at any point. The mark on their hands just shows that they're chosen by fate. I'm pretty sure at least that Ganondorf does. That's the whole reason the Sages sent him to the Twilight Realm, because when they tried to execute him the Triforce of Power made him immortal and he iced one of them. And it glowing near the end was kind of the symbol that that was going to happen again. Luckily, either because of the power of the Master Sword or because The Zelda series kind of plays fast and loose with what the Triforce does and how it works and in this game it seems like Link and Zelda's descendants just inherited their ancestors' pieces.
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Mar 5, 2022 02:05
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I've been silently watching a few of these from time to time, and it's been quite a blast from the past for me. While it's definitely not my favorite LoZ game, Twilight Princess has this weird status of being the one of the only games my mother enjoyed watching my brother and I play.Twelve by Pies posted:Look on the bright side, she's apparently not doing Zelda's Adventure, which is pretty much the worst of the three. Zelda's Adventure is the CD-i game you always hope would be good because it's the other one you get to play Zelda in, but it's really... just... not... The only part worse than the awesome overworld theme going unused is the cool ideas behind the game going to waste on Phillips and the CD-I and just by being made when the time was not right. Hand-built diorama sets to run around in, very neat claymation monsters, live-action sequences- it would have been terribly 90's, but it could have been very cool. Apparently they even were trying at one point to get Echo and the Bunnymen to do the soundtrack? Maybe I'm just a sucker for claymation and stop motion. There is this very cool interview with the guy who did all the setwork and model making though. Very neat look at what could've been. Still, probably a good idea to maybe spare yourself the pain of playing it.
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Mar 5, 2022 02:52
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Most of the bosses felt lacking but that's especially a problem for the main villain. Though if this Ganon wanted to make a proper entrance I have an idea.
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Mar 5, 2022 07:17
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Thanks for the LP! A real trip down memory lane, and an interesting time to reassess childhood memories against what the game actually was. Before the LP, I kind of had a very dour attitude towards the game and figured anything good in it was just nostalgia talking, but seeing it again, there's a lot of weird and interesting things this game is trying, and while it doesn't always come together well (like the murderously slow start or the difficulty in making cool items like the spinner and ball and chain cohesively useful outside their dungeons), I think I actually have come around on the game. And when I first played this game over fifteen years ago, the multi-stage bossfight where Ganondorf's horse returned, complete with a mounted duel across Hyrule Field, culminating in a swordfight, was pretty much everything teenage me wanted from Ocarina of Time. What does feel like the biggest mistake with the finale is that Ganondorf is "played straight" after a game that gleefully kicks your legs out from under you, particularly with its villain. I described the game earlier as a "carnivalesque" Zelda, and in the carnival, the joke is on you, the pigeon who's getting fleeced by the games and mocked by the clowns—but all in good fun, as a comic reversal of the normal order. So the game sets up a very grounded Link who has a job in a village and wears something other than the green tunic, and then turns him into a badass wolf... who gets ridden like a horse by an imp who makes fun of you. It's that kind of undercutting that really underpins the game, the anarchic wonkiness of presenting something traditionally cool, then having you ask a clown to repair a two-legged cannon to get you to the final dungeon, or having the final boss, the grand antagonist who you've been chasing after all game... be actually a ridiculous dweeb. But then it ends with Regular Ganondorf Doing Ganondorf Things, like if you got to the Big Top, and after the clowns clear out of the room, the Ringmaster steps forward to give a lecture on Ovid's Metamorphoses. Even if it was a very well done and informative lecture, it just doesn't fit.
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Mar 6, 2022 01:31
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Honestly a Zelda set in an actual carnival would be rather unique and entertaining at a very least.
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Mar 6, 2022 08:12
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Go full Mario 3 and make the whole game a play. Never break character.
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Mar 6, 2022 08:33
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Commander Keene posted:Go full Mario 3 and make the whole game a play. Never break character. 
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Mar 6, 2022 10:36
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Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door took the concept even further where you're actually battling live in front of a theater audience that can interfere with your fights.
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Mar 6, 2022 11:30
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Chimera-gui posted:Honestly a Zelda set in an actual carnival would be rather unique and entertaining at a very least. Well, that's Majora's Mask, where the Carnival of Time is the game's centerpiece. But that has a more childlike approach to the carnival (fitting for its protagonist) where Link effectively plays dress up with the seven ages of man (childhood, adulthood, fatherhood, and death) while maintaining a childlike innocence. After all, every sub plot in the game is framed in terms of doing good deeds for strangers, like a particularly preachy fairy tale. You wear the masks of every level of society, but you're always "you" at the core. MM also likes its grotesque (Goron Elder, introducing of toilet hand), but not to the same degree as Twilight Princess. It's why I think TP reflects an effort to push the themes of MM further, but it never comes together as mechanically well as MM's intricate parts do, while also doing something narratively that its audience isn't as inclined towards. So I like its ambition, but can definitely see why it's not as fondly remembered.
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Mar 6, 2022 16:00
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Why does Ganondorf possess Zelda's body, he had a perfectly good one of his own, was it for dramatic effect or something?
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Mar 6, 2022 16:23
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Judge Tesla posted:Why does Ganondorf possess Zelda's body, he had a perfectly good one of his own, was it for dramatic effect or something? Heroes hate having to fight their friends against their will. Just can't stand the stuff, like cats finding a cucumber behind them suddenly.
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Mar 6, 2022 19:42
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RareAcumen posted:Heroes hate having to fight their friends against their will. Just can't stand the stuff, like cats finding a cucumber behind them suddenly.
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Mar 8, 2022 03:29
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