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In retrospect (and not including DLC), which is the better game - HFW or HZD? I'm thinking of replaying one soon and trying to decide which.
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Apr 28, 2024 19:27
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| # ? May 1, 2024 05:52 |
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I feel like the main thing that would make playing this on the highest difficulties impossible is how frequently I get hosed up by the camera. There are so many situations where I just can't keep an eye on everything, or I get caught on some part of the environment while trying to run. Like if you need to get distance from an enemy you can either keep an eye on it, or you can keep an eye on where you're running, but not both. If you look at the machine you might run into random parts of the environment while trying to get away, and if you're looking in the direction you're running you can't keep an eye on the enemy's attacks. On lower difficulties it's not a big deal since you can heal through stuff, but the idea of every one of those attacks 1-shotting me is very unpleasant. Does literally everything 1-shot you on Very/Ultra Hard? I feel like it'd suck if something like a Thunder Jaw's nose gun thing (which I always have a very hard time fully avoiding) 1-shot you. I could also see certain human enemies being really annoying, since they often interrupt your melee combos with counters that do damage. On lower difficulties those interrupts don't do much, but it'd blow if they straight-up killed you. Shooting Blanks posted:In retrospect (and not including DLC), which is the better game - HFW or HZD? I'm thinking of replaying one soon and trying to decide which. I would always prefer replaying HFW, since IMO the only advantage HZD has over HFW are its plot reveals, which obviously aren't much of a factor if you already played it. And HFW also has more stuff to play around with; you can try focusing on different weapon types or using different Valor Surges.
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Apr 28, 2024 19:42
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i think it depends on what you want to jump back in for. if you're looking for horizon the open world game, fw horizon to play through a story, zd
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Apr 28, 2024 20:02
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Shooting Blanks posted:In retrospect (and not including DLC), which is the better game - HFW or HZD? I'm thinking of replaying one soon and trying to decide which. I'd say HZD for the complete package. Combat's pretty good, but the story and world and pacing are next level. Plus, it's a right-sized amount of activities. Shows creative confidence I give the edge in combat and visuals to HFW. The former was a little tricky to figure out, but once I did I vastly prefer it over HZD's
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Apr 28, 2024 20:02
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having less stuff is a point in HZD's favor HZD also has: - sharpshot bows that work properly - long dodge roll - much more sensible distribution of weapon elements - you can get perfectly optimal mod setups without cheating in two NG+ cycles total instead of 5+ - better ammo economy, even on UH - simpler / more elegant UI - better traversal simply by virtue of not having the "climb anywhere" ledges to get stuck on - no Clamberjaws or Clawstriders the downside is you lose out on the Spike Thrower and big machine variety
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Apr 28, 2024 20:06
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Ytlaya posted:I feel like the main thing that would make playing this on the highest difficulties impossible is how frequently I get hosed up by the camera. There are so many situations where I just can't keep an eye on everything, or I get caught on some part of the environment while trying to run. Like if you need to get distance from an enemy you can either keep an eye on it, or you can keep an eye on where you're running, but not both. If you look at the machine you might run into random parts of the environment while trying to get away, and if you're looking in the direction you're running you can't keep an eye on the enemy's attacks. Only if you play UH from scratch. on NG+, with legendary gear and stuff its not a whole that oneshots, basically only the strongest attacks from some of the tougher apex heavyweights (like fireclaws, thunderjaws, slaughterspines, tremortusks...) that oneshot, provided you have the appropiate outfit resistance. And a few additional machines can oneshot with strong elemental attacks if youre wearing a outfit without resistance to a given element, then the list extends to some regular heavyweights and strong apex mediumweight machines. With a good outfit on max HP, the thunderjaw machinegun doest oneshot, but one jawgun sweep from the apex TJ can bring it down to critical health, and kill you on a second sweep. Thakfully you can tear those guns off, even just gettig rid of 1 halfs the damage. What will oneshot are the two different neck-rearing charges of the Apex TJ
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Apr 28, 2024 20:15
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:HZD also has: While I don't agree with everything you said this is probably the only one I don't understand. How are they not working in HFW for you? Also yes gently caress clamberjaws so, so hard. Waterwings too. I'd take the DLC fight against an apex TJ and apex Slaughterspine over the 3x waterwing fight or a 3x apex clamberjaw fight any day. The 3x waterwing fight might be the single worst thing in the whole drat game. What a loving nightmare. I've never gotten closer to death than that fight, even with highly optimized gear.
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Apr 28, 2024 21:09
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clamberjaws are cool. just kill them
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Apr 28, 2024 21:12
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Olothreutes posted:While I don't agree with everything you said this is probably the only one I don't understand. How are they not working in HFW for you? There's an accuracy/bloom penalty for firing them while moving. There wasn't in HZD. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Apr 28, 2024 |
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Apr 28, 2024 21:41
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:There's an accuracy/bloom penalty for firing them while moving. This just seems like you tried to force them into a niche that they're not meant to fill. I get the impression a lot of Zero Dawn players went into FW treating Sharpshoot bows like "the damage-dealing bow," while it seems like the game wants to limit it to different niches (like long range stealth attacks, beginning fights with strong tear attacks, or big powerful hits to weak points). (also isn't there a Burning Shores skill that reduces that penalty?) Falukorv posted:Only if you play UH from scratch. on NG+, with legendary gear and stuff its not a whole that oneshots, basically only the strongest attacks from some of the tougher apex heavyweights (like fireclaws, thunderjaws, slaughterspines, tremortusks...) that oneshot, provided you have the appropiate outfit resistance. And a few additional machines can oneshot with strong elemental attacks if youre wearing a outfit without resistance to a given element, then the list extends to some regular heavyweights and strong apex mediumweight machines. Ah, that's good and makes sense. I was thinking that it would be kind of strange to even have all these different armor stats if you still got 1-shot.
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Apr 28, 2024 21:51
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Ytlaya posted:This just seems like you tried to force them into a niche that they're not meant to fill. Yes, and the Zero Dawn players are in the right.  The Sharpshot bow is still far and away the best damage-dealing bow. They didn't make it weaker, they just made it more annoying to use. If they wanted a different weapon to replace it as the primary damage-dealing weapon, they should have made another bow that deals actual damage. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Apr 28, 2024 |
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Apr 28, 2024 21:58
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I mostly miss tearshot arrows and the sound they made. Also Berserk arrows are pretty useless when you shoot a machine and it just immediately knows where you are and every other machine ignores it while it comes over to fight you. That said, the berserk valor surge is great when going into a battle with more than 2 enemies.
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Apr 28, 2024 22:20
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Yes, and the Zero Dawn players are in the right. skill issue
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Apr 28, 2024 22:21
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Shooting Blanks posted:In retrospect (and not including DLC), which is the better game - HFW or HZD? I'm thinking of replaying one soon and trying to decide which. HFW is more replayable and, while less interesting story wise, has better cutscene animation and sidequest design. plus you get to fly around zion and yosemite my main gripe is still how long it takes to farm upgrades for legendaries anyway the sharpshot bow in FW works fine. you have other options for midrange decent damage, they're called advanced exploding spikes. the sharpshot bow is best when you need _a fuckton_ of damage (around 500/shot with crits in the 1k range) or the now much more specialized uses of tear arrows, both of which are primarily relevant for big and slow machines you want to be a ways away from. it _should_ be less mobile than hunter or warrior bows being unable to select your own ammo types is by far more annoying than the increased specialization. give me slots and make the differentiation the already very relevant different bonuses built into the weapons also it took me way too long to realize that skill bonuses had caps and that you should be applying weaves/coils that _do not_ match the built-in bonuses. you'd think that'd be more prominently called out, not something you have to look for down in the depths of the skill details view
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Apr 28, 2024 22:23
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Shooting Blanks posted:In retrospect (and not including DLC), which is the better game - HFW or HZD? I'm thinking of replaying one soon and trying to decide which. HZD
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Apr 28, 2024 22:30
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isk posted:skill issue Getting bluffed by lovely UX into not using the best weapon for the job is a skill issue, yes.
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Apr 28, 2024 22:46
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HFW design-wise tries not to have a single best weapon for the job, it tries to say "here are your components, choose a style and put together a coherent kit to kill things using them together" it doesn't always work and there are plenty of balance issues, but imo it was the right direction even if they probably bit off more than they could chew
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Apr 29, 2024 00:23
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the second game produces challenging fights so its better. i skipped all the dialogue in both
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Apr 29, 2024 00:35
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I liked the first game cause I could just shoot arrows at robots 
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Apr 29, 2024 00:46
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FW definitely has a deeper and more complicated combat system if you are into that. Lots more specialized options and enemy types, but upgrading is far more of a pain. Good system for people who like to plan and execute and specialize in their build. It got so frustrating when things went off script though and that agonizingly long 3 second knockdown effect when you get hit sometimes pissed me off endlessly I preferred the HZD system personally but I can see why someone would prefer FW. Nothing in FW felt as good to me as concentration bunny hopping while strafing in ZD so you could pop arrows into robots. That was my preferred method once I got better weapons and FW ruined that because it took away the auto concentration when jumping. Febreeze fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Apr 29, 2024 |
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Apr 29, 2024 00:56
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^^^^ I mean, you can still maintain almost 100% concentration up-time with the right skills/armor/weaves (and even without any armor/weave bonuses it still has really high up-time). It's just that primarily using bow does kind of garbage damage unless you decide to freely blow through Advanced Sharpshot Arrows (which sadly requires a lot of Volatile Sludge).Tuxedo Catfish posted:Yes, and the Zero Dawn players are in the right. Warrior Bow does really good damage though (and so does Sharpshooter bow, you just have to do things like "freeze the machine and then stop to line up a shot at a weak point" instead of just using it as "the bow that is stronger"). Qtotonibudinibudet posted:my main gripe is still how long it takes to farm upgrades for legendaries This is definitely true, and the worst part is that Very Rare and Legendary equipment shares materials, so you're left with a feeling of "upgrading this Very Rare equipment is using up materials I might want for better equipment later." I'm shamelessly cheating myself materials during my second playthrough on PC. Qtotonibudinibudet posted:you have other options for midrange decent damage, they're called advanced exploding spikes. Also Shredders or Boltblasters (though the latter are riskier due to the movement limitations). I love landing all hits with the Spike Thrower split spike weapon skill thing. So many explosions. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Apr 29, 2024 |
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Apr 29, 2024 01:09
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Ytlaya posted:Warrior Bow does really good damage though (and so does Sharpshooter bow, you just have to do things like "freeze the machine and then stop to line up a shot at a weak point" instead of just using it as "the bow that is stronger"). i will admit that while i've experimented with most of the weapon classes in the game, i have probably not given the Warrior Bow the chance it deserves
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Apr 29, 2024 01:23
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Febreeze posted:FW definitely has a deeper and more complicated combat system if you are into that. Lots more specialized options and enemy types, but upgrading is far more of a pain. Good system for people who like to plan and execute and specialize in their build. It got so frustrating when things went off script though and that agonizingly long 3 second knockdown effect when you get hit sometimes pissed me off endlessly FW doesn't tell you this, but you should be jumping/sliding around because it makes Aloy draw her bow faster. There's a quickdraw mechanic that basically works when you would get the ZD concentration, including a small amount of time slowdown and additional aim assist. It works for sliding, jumping, and falling. The catch, I think, is that you have to start aiming while the motion is in progress. I'm not sure if it works if you are already aiming when you jump.
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Apr 29, 2024 01:53
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Fatty posted:Using a gamepad you can only equip one weapon ability at a time and change it on the weapon wheel. I'm guessing its something similar with M+Kb. Yep, thought it might be something like that, but I only thought to look on the skill tree like for the valor surges. You switch between weapon abilities using Z and X on the weapon wheel; same as you do with your consumables.
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Apr 29, 2024 07:37
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Dr Christmas posted:Yep, thought it might be something like that, but I only thought to look on the skill tree like for the valor surges. You switch between weapon abilities using Z and X on the weapon wheel; same as you do with your consumables. I always forget just how crowded the weapon wheel is in HFW. It was frustrating how often I grabbed the wrong ammo (or wrong weapon), or accidentally activated a valor surge, or swapped abilities mid-fight.
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Apr 29, 2024 11:24
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Quick Swap is your friend. You can assign any weapon on the wheel to L1, so that whenever you tap the button you'll automatically switch to that. For me that's usually whatever bow I have equipped with frost arrows or a Warrior Bow in melee spec.
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Apr 29, 2024 11:46
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Olothreutes posted:FW doesn't tell you this, but you should be jumping/sliding around because it makes Aloy draw her bow faster. There's a quickdraw mechanic that basically works when you would get the ZD concentration, including a small amount of time slowdown and additional aim assist. It works for sliding, jumping, and falling. The catch, I think, is that you have to start aiming while the motion is in progress. I'm not sure if it works if you are already aiming when you jump. It doesn't feel the same even when you do it right, I never managed to get the hang of it in my entire playthrough and I never used slide because inevitably I'd slide into geometry and get stopped/hit I don't need fast drawing, I wanted that explicit auto concentration that occurred when you jumped and then began aiming that HZD has, I'm pretty sure it was an upgrade skill point. I spent like an hour hopping around trying different aiming techniques and movement they made and they definitely changed how it works and I hated it. HZD had simpler mechanics and movement and I think it was better for it. FW is burdened by making everything more advanced and complicated like "sliding gives you quick draws" and the like. I'm sure it's fun to master if you put the effort in but I just never gelled with it and had it become second nature in this one like I did in ZD. By the end of ZD I was willingly running up to thunderjaws and picking fights just for the fun of it, by the end of FW I didn't even want to fight anything unless I had to for whatever mission I was doing. Except tremortusks, those were still really cool to fight every time. Tiderippers can get hosed Febreeze fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Apr 30, 2024 |
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Apr 30, 2024 05:56
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Tiderippers get absolutely dumpstered by shock shredders. As do Apex Tremortusks, it’s easier to hunt those guys at night.
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Apr 30, 2024 07:17
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yeah by the end of FW i just look at enemies sideways with a shredder and they die
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Apr 30, 2024 12:56
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