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Neo Rasa posted:That reminds me of the other only really egregious continuity thing to me, if Holden is a good Blade Runner and was briefed on how there are these four replicants still out there on earth, why does he not just immediately recognize Leon? The simple answer is that Holden's investigation into this suspicious worker, Leon, is what allowed them to identify the other three. There isn't a 'central mystery' to Blade Runner because there is no real mystery at all. The investigation's already done, the case has been cracked, and Deckard's just tasked with killing the people involved. Rachel's identity is revealed after a quick montage, and "Deckard human or not" is never actually raised as a question because: A) it's not a good question; he's absolutely a fake human. and B) the narrative concerns only Deckard's increasing dehumanization and how it is both troubling and liberating. This is part of where Blade Runner 2 fails, as it happens. Deckard's line in that film, when prodded about his on his origins, is "I know what's real". The correct response is "I am no longer human." SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jan 17, 2023 |
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Jan 17, 2023 18:05
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:This is part of where Blade Runner 2 fails, as it happens. Deckard's line in that film, when prodded about his on his origins, is "I know what's real". The correct response is "I am no longer human." These are not mutually exclusive.
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Jan 17, 2023 18:17
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:These are not mutually exclusive. Yes, but entirely different things are conveyed. "I know what's real" is an entirely personal statement concerning reality itself. 'I'm confident, I define my own reality', etc. Like many scenes in the film, it struggles to preserve the nonexistent 'central mystery' of Deckard's origins. "I am no longer human" is a political statement that cuts right to the chase: the category 'humanity' is psychological and can apply to the natural-born and manufactured alike. It's a dismissal of the 'central mystery' as dumb.
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Jan 17, 2023 18:36
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The Sushi Master is how Bob Okazaki, the guy that serves Deckard a Decca Bowl with two fish per the menu instead of 4 and then tells him "2 is good for you" when Deckard says he wanted 4, really left an impact on people. To the point where last year in Japan there was a small gathering at the sci-fi themed bar KandaFLUX where they had a menu of all the stuff that White Dragon noodle bar has on its menu in the movie, painstakingly put together from examining the menu sign prop and every shot of the place in the movie.  So loving good, here's some images from it, this account is a 100% pro-follow if you still have Twitter for some reason: https://nitter.nl/_BladeRunner_/status/1536203015925149696  
Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 22:47
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Much like the "Is Deckard a replicant or not" discussion that started this thread, there isn't quite a definite answer to the color of the police spinners in the original movie are which is impressive to me for such a cool and iconic sci-fi vehicle design. I mean they're obviously blue but variance in official stuff is huge because of how darkly lit the movie is. IIRC there's only one photo of the real thing in daylight and it's a much lighter grey/blue than you'd expect, can be seen here in an old issue of Cinephex: https://web.archive.org/web/20180202043524/https://www.scalemodelnews.com/2012/02/fujimi-blade-runner-spinner-buildup.html But I also understand why a lot art/models/etc. go for a darker color since it evokes how it actually looks in the film's lighting. I got the Fujimi spinner model from awhile ago and it suggests GSI H5 blue for it which seems like a happy medium, a lot lighter than it appears in most shots in the movie but still definitely blue.  I really love that so much about this movie that even one that gets as picked over as it there's still unanswered stuff about it.
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Feb 3, 2023 06:14
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Earlier in this thread there was some discussion of the three Blade Runner sequel novels written by K.W. Jeter and how bad aspects of them were. I realized that it'd been so long ago that I read Blade Runner 2: The Edge of Human and Blade Runner 3: Replicant Night that'd all but forgotten them completely outside of some major stuff. But I had also learned thanks to some helpful posts in this thread that there's a Blade Runner 4 novel on top of that. So I set about reading all of these. Blade Runner 2: The Edge of Human is very frustrating, because it has a ton of dumbass stupid stuff that sucks poo poo in it. And something like 90% of the book is "character says a thing can't be that way" followed by "another character says well did you ever stop to consider [a five page long wet fart]". Also someone asked earlier how Pris is able to have been a human all along when she's able to hold the boiling egg in her bare hand like Roy and such and wow, I forgot it actually is explained and the reason is loving incredible. You see, in the world of these novels there are some people who so sympathetic to the replicant cause that they have a psychosomatic condition where they fully believe they are replicants and basically are replicants. Though this of course doesn't at all explain how said character still has some semblance of life because loving JF SEBASTIAN the guy who literally like designs the brains and stuff of these replicants for a living somehow did extensive repair work on her but didn't realize she was a human. Anyway, anything can be cool if it's well executed, but there's two things that imo make this book suck poo poo: 1) Something I do remember from when it came out, in an attempt to capture the voice of some of the characters the dialogue ends up going a bit to the extreme to refer to moments from the movie. And any time a person from the movie is mentioned there's like an extra paragraph of exposition about them or incidences from the movie, even towardst he end of the book about the same character. These have a bad effect of reminding you how much the movie says with so little compared to the constant Lynch-Dune-esque internal monologues and lectures this book subjects us to. 2) The main characters are all over the place with really choppy changes in if they are sympathetic to replicants or not, how they react to someone being killed or not, very evocative of like a video game where you have some freedom with how you do stuff but then get funneled into a cutscene dialogue that's at odds with what just happened in-game. Now Blade Runner 3: Replicant Night, I'll probably be finished with soon. This one is just bizarre with how it treats its female lead. There's a point towards the end where Deckard reveals how the only reason this entire fake identity him running off with this woman/etc. stuff that is the basis of the novel was done by him because she's just sooooo dangerously insane she has to be kept isolated and off earth and then it's not really brought up again? Has some real first draft feeling moments. It's weird because it has this very turgid pacing with lots of clunky suspense and build up moments that you already know how they're going to play out. Because it uses the same general structure of Edge of Human of like, you realize a character is wrong about something, que like two pages of the character being EXTREMELY SURE they are right about something, then the person they're talking to finally explains how they're wrong. This gets stretched out to like almost parody level with one of the characters towards the end. Can't wait to finish this lol Anyway, Replicant Night has some potentially cool concepts in it but the execution isn't really grabbing me, it's definitely a little more ambitious. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Feb 18, 2023 |
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Feb 17, 2023 17:25
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Thank you for your sacrifice. I look forward to continuing to hear about how bad the books are so I never have to try reading them.
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Feb 17, 2023 18:35
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The fourth book was never published in the US and it has a real "oh come the gently caress on" ending. Edit: looks like someone went ham on the Wikipedia plot summary for that one. Midjack fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Feb 18, 2023 |
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Feb 17, 2023 20:04
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feedmyleg posted:Thank you for your sacrifice. I look forward to continuing to hear about how bad the books are so I never have to try reading them. In Replicant Night there's a Tyrell Shadow Corporation. A super secret corporation no one knows exists if they don't work for it but was the company run by Eldon Tyrell that was secretly actually running things behind the Tyrell Corporation. There's houses on Mars that are described as if they're literally just bare sheetrock and duct tape. Also JF Sebastian continues to live via a pocket universe you enter by taking designer drugs. Roy Batty's consciousness is implanted in a briefcase and also this is suspicious because this is suspicious because it's also something the LAPD just DOES sometimes so that they can gently caress with someone by giving them a talking briefcase. Also it's learned the briefcase may or may not be a massively powerful bomb even though it's used opened and used as a regular briefcase multiple times. The briefcase is brought to Deckard via Holden because he can walk around again thanks to cyberlungs. OH YEAH!!! Holden! So early on in Blade Runner 2: The Edge of Human, Holden is given a makeshift portable lung setup and busted out of the hospital and gets cyberlungs installed thanks to Roy Batty, not the replicant Roy Batty but the mercenary guy the Batty replicants are based on. Batty was hired to do this for Holden because supposedly Holden was SET UP to be shot by Leon and they could have given him cyberlungs at any time but did not because there's some kind of massive high level conspiracy to destroy the Blade Runner unit. Eventually we learn that there was no conspiracy, instead Sarah Tyrell manipulated stuff to get Holden/Deckard/etc. all in the same area and at odds with each other because doing so would convince the U.N. that replicant activity and enforcement is out of control on earth, meanign the Tyrell corporation has failed. This will cause them to push the literal red button that self destructs the entire Tyrall corporation pyramid because it was lined with tons of explosives in case they wanted to do that. Okay so like, if that's so then Holden WASN'T set up, he really was stuck with an iron lung for real and cyberlungs weren't being withheld from him. But they were clearly so, uh...huh? I am INSANELY hype to start the fourth book holy poo poo lol
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Feb 18, 2023 05:26
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The fourth one seems like it's Jeter's take on one of the weirder parts of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep.
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Feb 18, 2023 05:58
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Neo Rasa posted:Blade Runner 2: The Edge of Human and Blade Runner 3: Replicant Night These are joke book titles from a parody movie
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Feb 18, 2023 06:11
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VROOM VROOM posted:These are joke book titles from a parody movie What would you say about Eye and Talon?
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Feb 18, 2023 06:15
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Midjack posted:What would you say about Eye and Talon? Sounds more like a real book, but somehow even less like it would be any good.
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Feb 18, 2023 11:05
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VROOM VROOM posted:These are joke book titles from a parody movie Blade Runner: Naked Came The Stranger.
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Feb 19, 2023 01:15
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Blunt Walker: 420
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Feb 19, 2023 04:03
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The big question of the movie isn't is Deckard a replicant, but is Ridley Scott. All of Blade Runner is very obviously just 100% pro-replicant propaganda and someone totally needs to give Scott the test.
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Feb 19, 2023 13:43
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PKD's reaction to an early script draft was that the movie was pro-replicant propaganda and said so to Scott's face. That's about as close to a test as we need.
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Feb 19, 2023 15:09
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Plus again, no one passes that test
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Feb 20, 2023 05:45
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Blood Boils posted:Plus again, no one passes that test I'm pretty sure Kirk did. (He negotiated with the wasp crawling on his arm so it would help him flip the turtle.)
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Feb 20, 2023 07:28
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Is a turtle really the same thing as a tortoise?
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Feb 21, 2023 23:02
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Splint Chesthair posted:Is a turtle really the same thing as a tortoise? I've never seen a turtle... But I understand what you mean.
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Feb 22, 2023 02:53
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feedmyleg posted:Thank you for your sacrifice. I look forward to continuing to hear about how bad the books are so I never have to try reading them. The endgame of the book 3 (Blade Runner 3: Replicant Night (  ) is basically everyone who wants Deckard dead and to capture his companion at this point in the story a 10 year old Rachael replicant that was made like 25 years ago and can age but doesn't because she was stranded on a ship with one of the old style reactors that uh causes weird time distortion poo poo and also the outer colonies are all dominated by replicants because when you travel out of space you pass outside of the "morphogenetic field" which causes all humans to become infertile/impotent and the opposite for replicants.At the very end after Deckard stymies the efforts of everyone who's after him and a lot of monloguing/conversation about happens about how there's nowhere to go and no escape from this ever etc. at the end he and just, like, go off to the outer colonies and he's able to get by all the beaurocracy/legality of making that happen by just being like yeah I have a 10 year old now, I know I haven't even lived on Mars for 10 years yet but I'm claiming my now dead girlfriend and I had her after we moved here but hey no big like he just sort of smarms his way out of it in like five seconds lol Generally speaking, this book is like an abomination-tier execution of what it was going for. A must read.
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Feb 22, 2023 05:16
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“Is Deckard a replicant” is a false question designed to distract from the central premise that Roy is human. Edit: to be more explicit, it’s a question drummed up by pedantic nerds to avoid confronting the much more uncomfortable question of whether a slave is human. Slave, here, being a stand in for the pure colonial subject; where biology itself has been colonized. Danger fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Feb 25, 2023 |
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Feb 25, 2023 16:19
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fr0id posted:I was being pretty aggro with my reply. Nah, you had the correct opinion. The droids in Star Wars are also human beings.
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Feb 25, 2023 19:38
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Danger posted:Nah, you had the correct opinion. R2-D2 is the most powerful force user in the entire ennealogy. The force is the narrative and R2 is able to seize it in almost every film. The latter films stumble in that they minimize how important r2 is.
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Feb 27, 2023 00:12
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fr0id posted:R2-D2 is the most powerful force user in the entire ennealogy. The force is the narrative and R2 is able to seize it in almost every film. The latter films stumble in that they minimize how important r2 is. Most shamefully in Force Awakens when R2 literally awakens at just the right time to lead Rey to Luke's new home. This did make more people realize that, yeah, R2 is force sensitive, but then Disney/JJ then specifically stated later that they had R2 conveniently away at that point solely to make the plot move forward efficiently. Like there's people so intent on droids not being able to have the force act through them or vice versa they'll just straight up break the text of their own film lol
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Feb 28, 2023 03:00
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The book Blade Runner 4: Eye and Talon, starts out much stronger than 2 and 3, but just over the halfway point, holy crap lol Enjoy a chunk of the book being about characters sitting in the ruins of Eldon Tyrell's office and watching Blade Runner and also film adaptations of the previous two books and talking about how Blade Runner 2 is pretty good unlike the the original Blade Runner which is merely "alright" because of its plot holes  Also way too many moments of "characters spends three pages worrying that a thing might happen....and then it happens!" Highly recommended and, honestly, it's better overall than 2 and 3. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Mar 2, 2023 |
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Mar 2, 2023 21:59
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Wow, that's meta. Just like Philip K Dick!
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Mar 2, 2023 22:02
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Jeter was friends with Dick, to the point where the character Kevin in VALIS was based on him.
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Mar 2, 2023 22:16
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Midjack posted:Jeter was friends with Dick, to the point where the character Kevin in VALIS was based on him. I had no idea but some things about the series do make more sense now lol, I can't decide if this makes the books worse or better. Halloween Jack posted:Wow, that's meta. Just like Philip K Dick! I like Philip K. Dick but this series by Jeter is just tedious when the reenactments and retelling of things from the movie are so Ubik(uitous). Also if you ever feel like you don't need a liver take a shot every time a sentence says "the female replicant Rachael" instead of just "her", "she", or "Rachael". Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Mar 2, 2023 |
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Mar 2, 2023 22:17
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