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Let's play Against the Storm (discussion thread) very carefully at 0.1x speed! In my opinion, this became consistently possible with the introduction of the population embark bonus in the Rainpunk Update (Part 1) on 2023-1-19. December 2023 (Against the Storm release!) update: Xom posted:I thought it would no longer be possible to win in year 3 after the change to make favor juggling no longer work, but apparently it is still possible: https://old.reddit.com/r/Against_the_Storm/comments/16us7fu/year_3_seal_victory_prestige_20_a_pretty_nice/ Xom posted:OK, I picked this game back up, and I've actually looked at the link myself now. I think the irregular Sealed Forest win condition is not as relevant as his massive accumulated cycle buffs and embark bonuses. He said he usually wins in Year 4 or 5 in regular games, never Year 3. Two things that are no longer in the game that let me win in Year 3 before are favor juggling and Harpy decadence = 2. Now Harpy base decadence is 3, not counting the new Prestige modifier that adds 1 to each species's decadence. Xom fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Dec 22, 2023 |
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Jan 26, 2023 11:59
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I already posted about my first such run in the discussion thread:Xom posted:I was bored with Against the Storm for a long time, but it became interesting when I started thinking about how to win in year 4 at Prestige 20. (I was almost always winning in year 5 recently.) My main idea was to call a trader year 1 and try to fill orders to gain more laborers ASAP. Someone in AtS discord reportedly won in year 4 10% of the time. But the rainpunk update dropped before I got a chance to try. Since it had been on the edge of possibility before, I was expecting the incoming nerf to pipe-less production to make it impossible. But the new population embark bonus more than makes up for that. I think I'd be willing to pay ALL my embark points for +3 population. Instead, it costs 1 or 2 points.
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Jan 26, 2023 11:59
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In that first run, my early blueprints (particularly Smokehouse (3-star Jerky), Kiln (3-star Coal), and Cookhouse (2-star Skewers)), cornerstones (Safe Haven and Frequent Caravans), and glade contents (Trapper Camp ruin, large insect nodes, medium cache, large cache) all felt pretty lucky. But that was just my first attempt, and there's more room for optimization, so I think it should be possible with less luck, at least for runs with a Harpy supermajority. I'm interested in doing these runs on Royal Woodlands, Marshlands, and maybe Scarlet Orchard if the dig site doesn't make it too easy. I think Coral Forest is too easy, and hitting certain forbidden glade events in Cursed Royal Woodlands will make it too hard (though not from experience; that first run had the Dangerous Lands modifier, so it wasn't an issue). So, let's try Scarlet Orchard and see if it's too easy. I think it's mainly a question about the dig site, the closest one of which can often be guessed from the map shape. The Archaeologist's Office, though overly powerful in most circumstances, I don't think will pay off in time to be worth investing in for us.  Caravan generation doesn't try to be balanced; it just adds some random stuff to each caravan, the value of which varies. Population is the most important thing to me, but I do wonder whether I want 9 Harpies or 10 villagers of whom only 5 are Harpies. I think I want to maximize my chance of early resolve orders, because they cost nothing and grant population, so I want to maximize my chance of starting with three species here, at the expense of getting more Harpies. Embark bonus costs have random variation for the sake of variation. Here's a comparison of the goods offered here: code:
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Jan 26, 2023 12:03
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Forest Mysteries:
I'm told that the nearest dig site will always be a small glade near the starting glade but not adjacent, reachable without going through any other glade. This map has two candidates matching the description. I'll aim for them ASAP. With max Citadel upgrades, traders take 9 minutes and 26 seconds to arrive naturally, or just 28 seconds if called. We can't call during storm, so if we want our second trader to arrive immediately at the start of year 2, we need to call our first trader within 45 seconds of game start, which won't happen, of course, but let's see how far off we are. One second missed here translates to one second of delay on the second trader.  Starting with three Wood Camps and a Warehouse. Next, I want to try putting the remaining bit of spare labor at the beginning of the game here toward a Big Shelter and a Lizard House, which we may have to deconstruct for materials later, but which should help fill early resolve orders faster.  Our initial 14 Wood is 1 short for a Trading Post, so let's deliver this 1 Wood ASAP.  Trading Post finished at 95 seconds, so after calling Old Farluf now, the next trader's natural arrival will be 50 seconds into year 2. First cornerstone is +1 resolve per three trade standing; in three years, the highest standing we can hope for is level 2, so I expect +2 resolve from this by the end, which is fine. Nothing interesting for the first order. Second order is for Lizard resolve and rewards us with two more Lizards. Third order rewards four villagers, so I also want to do that ASAP, though I might need to call another trader and buy crops.  I'm not really interested in these perks. I am interested in trading Parts for building materials to speed my game along. I think the default 28 Parts in caravans is the most we'll need, and this run's caravan had 35 Parts; there are also 3 Parts in one of the order rewards so far.  Hit the dig site on the first try. I'm kicking myself for not looking up the dig site requirements beforehand; I could've saved my starting eggs for this, but now too many are eaten. With three more dewberry bushes, the 2 Crystal per 10 Berries perk becomes interesting, but still I think I'd rather save my Amber and see what the next trader, which I intend to immediately call, brings. Next I'm gonna swap to Lizard firekeeper and pull woodcutters in order to fill the Lizard resolve order.
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Jan 26, 2023 13:28
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I trade 5 Parts to Farluf in exchange for 8 Oil (bringing me to 50; dig site will take 30 later) and enough Planks and Fabric to build a Manufactory immediately, which I'll use for Provisions. Next trader is Zhorg, to whom I trade 5 Parts for 18 Grain, enough for 6 Packs of Crops. I also buy a Greenhouse blueprint and trade the rest of my Amber for Bricks, since I have no source of Bricks yet. I'll be doing enough trade routes to have Amber to open glades on time. I fill the population-awarding orders as planned, bringing me to 21 population. Unfortunately, 12 of them are Lizards, so I'm feeling concerned about how much Reputation I can get this run from resolve. After newcomers arrive during storm, I have 26 population, including 14 Lizards. I disassemble my initial Big Shelter and Lizard House in order to build Rain Collector and Field Kitchen. Toward the end of the storm, I disassemble my Manufactory in order to get started on the dig site; I've made quite a few Planks at my Crude Workstations, but this is still necessary to get to 15.  I built two Herbalist Camps in order to stay fed until I can proc more crickets next year. I get through the storm with a few villagers missing meals, but not enough to matter. I've sold multiple Parts via trade routes, so now I'm constantly deconstructing and reconstructing Parts-using buildings. For example, I finish gathering the reeds at the end of storm, so I deconstruct the Gatherer Camp for now. My second cornerstone is Frequent Caravans (each trade route completion gives +3 resolve for a few minutes); I've been holding three trade routes for collection (there's a checkbox to collect only manually), and now my delay pays off as I cash them in. 
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Jan 26, 2023 16:53
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First dangerous glade has Trader Cemetery, which is solvable with 20 Oil, and adds 60 hostility every minute while engaged. It also has large Reeds and Eggs nodes; I have Trapper Camp vs. Supplier as my next pick, but let me see another glade first. It's a little bit risky to open another glade, but Cricket Mating Grounds makes it irresistible to me. I find Fallen Harpy Scientists (-12 Harpy resolve), which I am fortunately capable of tanking at the same time as Trader Cemetery, and a Lumber Mill ruin. It also has large Grain and Herbs nodes. Each glade also has a medium cache. I take the Trapper Camp and the next pick is Forager (Grain) Camp vs. Cookhouse. Since I have no flour recipe yet, I take the Cookhouse. I shouldn't have sold so many Bricks via trade routes. I'm bottlenecked on building materials. If I had more materials, I could've built a Greenhouse with another warehouse next to it, and have Herbs for the second stage of the dig. As it is, I think I need to tear down my Harpy Houses to use Fabric instead of Herbs, in order to have a chance of finishing the dig in year 3. I need a service building blueprint. And I probably need to crack more glades next drizzle to get more insects. This run is not going as well as the last one.
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Jan 26, 2023 19:56
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Interesting how early and often you're bringing up warehouses - I've really only used them sparingly when I have a forbidden glade fairly far away from my main warehouse and not as temporary structures for specific gathering camps.
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Jan 26, 2023 20:34
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Well, the first one was just because I had the labor and materials at the start. I tore it down for materials pretty soon afterward. The others (plural desired, singular actually built), yeah, I would say that not being in my starting glade counts as far away.
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Jan 26, 2023 22:33
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My third cornerstone was Woodpecker Technique, one of the best purple perks. The only service building blueprint I managed to get was Market, but I had no Cosmetics recipe, and neither did Sothur bring any Cosmetics. Later, Zhorg failed to bring Tools, which I had hoped for. I have heard that the goods from killing a trader doesn't correspond to their inventory (though the perk(s) do), in order to avoid screwing the player by handing out a partially depleted stack e.g. of 2 Jerky, but I don't know if it picks from everything the trader can bring, or only what they did bring, so I killed Zhorg to see if I'd get any Tools. I didn't, and I also forgot to take notes on what he had brought, so I still don't know which implementation is in the game. He killed 5 villagers in return, putting me into Last Stand. Supposedly Zhorg kills 2-5 villagers, but I don't know if it's random or based on my population.  I was expecting to be able to deal with Last Stand, since I've heard that gaining 1 Reputation makes you leave Last Stand and resets the timer, but unfortunately the patch had moved the last Last Stand upgrade to a new unlock, which I didn't have yet. If I had the 90-second timer, I might be able to survive Last Stand here, which would buy me enough time to cook my loot from Zhorg into more types of complex food, in order to continue dipping in and out of Last Stand. But I'm missing that unlock, so I conceded here. (And finished the blightstorm cycle, giving me enough Citadel resources to unlock everything again.) I think I win if I had the last Last Stand upgrade. I have 4 orders I expect to fill this year, plus one more mystery order that unlocks later in the year. I'll get 3 points from completing the dig. That means I only need 3.7 more reputation from resolve and/or the mystery order, starting with the 0.7 reputation to survive this initial Last Stand. In conclusion, is the dig site worth it when trying to win in year 3, and therefore does Scarlet Orchard's being easier in general apply to trying to win in year 3? Yes, absolutely. 35 Eggs + 15 Planks + 20 Fabric + 30 Oil + 25 Pigment (which drops from trees) + 4 Parts in exchange for 3 Reputation is a fine deal. Also, I said earlier that I didn't think the Archaeology Office would be worth upgrading in a 3-year game, but I forgot that Scrolls are a payment option. In that case, it might be cheap enough to be worth it. Xom fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Dec 22, 2023 |
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Jan 27, 2023 09:47
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I'm super impressed by your level of optimization and use of building/demolishing buildings for materials. I also only just started playing again after a long while, so I've never built a dig site or archaeologist hut. It sounds like it has solid rewards!
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Jan 27, 2023 22:24
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I just started playing and boy, this game is really good.
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Jan 27, 2023 22:58
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great LP so far, looking forward to absorbing this high level play knowledge
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Jan 28, 2023 17:42
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I thought it would no longer be possible to win in year 3 after the change to make favor juggling no longer work, but apparently it is still possible: https://old.reddit.com/r/Against_the_Storm/comments/16us7fu/year_3_seal_victory_prestige_20_a_pretty_nice/ (I stopped playing after my last post here and didn't follow whatever changes ensued.)
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Sep 28, 2023 23:44
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Xom posted:I thought it would no longer be possible to win in year 3 after the change to make favor juggling no longer work, but apparently it is still possible: https://old.reddit.com/r/Against_the_Storm/comments/16us7fu/year_3_seal_victory_prestige_20_a_pretty_nice/ I think it's still correct to open orders early in order to get more workers as soon as possible. There's only one incentive to wait to open the first order, and that's the possibility of a timed order, many of which are quite valuable, and which you can be better positioned to fulfill if you wait. For other orders, occasionally you might also want to wait in order to delay picking the previous order until you're better informed (for example, until you see your next blueprint). But it's valuable to get population ASAP, so it's too sad if you wait only for the sake of timed orders, and then you don't get one. The most recent data dump was November 10, and contains the following timed orders possible in the first three orders, but not the length of the timer:
The other opening consideration is Fuming Machinery, which, according to a guide on Steam, is the only Dangerous event you really have to play around; other negative effects of not completing events are all bearable, but destroying the glade while blowing other glades open is truly catastrophic. The logic seems sound to me. The following Fandom wiki page was last modified October 12: https://against-the-storm.fandom.com/wiki/Fuming_Machinery ; I could've sworn that it was 50 Drizzle / 50 Clearance / 42 Storm water when I saw it on Prestige 20 a few days ago, but the other resource requirement numbers already seem insanely high to me, so I don't know what to think. The guide on Steam recommends building a Rain Collector and manning it from the start of Storm until you open glade halfway through and see no Fuming Machinery. (That doesn't work in the Sealed Forest due to the Plague of Mosquitoes, but one way you could compensate is by accumulating massive embark bonuses.) I won't bother trying to think of other strategies until I can confirm the event requirements. Xom fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Dec 25, 2023 |
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Dec 22, 2023 20:53
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The guide on Steam also says to open orders in mid-storm, before opening the glade, in case your orders make you decide not to go for a Dangerous glade (for the sake of Resolve). Accordingly, it says to build housing first, so that you can skip a meal (saving about 20 Food on Prestige 20). I only just did the reasoning in my previous post, so the game I'm about to liveblog is the first game I don't follow the guide's recommendation. I'm gonna build housing first anyway, but in my case it's for the sake of doing Resolve orders sooner.
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Dec 22, 2023 21:23
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The game sometimes crashes when I Alt+Tab, so I'll have no more screenshots, and probably be more brief. I don't have fair mode unlocked yet, so I'll be playing with maximum metaprogression upgrades (except I'm missing the double-sized Harmony decoration doing 400 glades or orders, I forget which). This game is Prestige 20 on Marshlands, starting with 8 Humans, 2 Lizards, and 1 Harpy, with 28 Biscuits and one other non-default thing from the caravan, +42 food, Training Gear Delivery Line, and bonus population (included in the count already) from embark points, and I think I have at least +60 food from cycle buffs. First blueprint choice is Advanced Trapper Camp vs. Lumber Mill. I'm almost certainly gonna pick Lumber Mill, but I'm not gonna click it until I need to make another decision. First perks offered are a scaling woodcutting bonus based on water used in engines, and something else I forget; I decline and take the 10 Amber, since I had no Amber. 1 minute and 20 seconds into the game, around the time my second Shelter is built, I open my first order, immediately followed by the second and third. My picks are Joyful Humans, Impetuous Explorer (complete three events), and the third I leave for now, but I probably want the population. Note that Amber Trade has the same requirements as Quick Transaction except that it's not timed. (Taking this screenshot crashed the game.) Xom fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Dec 22, 2023 |
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Dec 22, 2023 21:35
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Even though I was gonna be busy with Joyful Humans, I opened the other orders because I wanted to do other non-glade orders in parallel, so I planned on declining timed glade-related orders. But the 17:30 timer on Impetuous Explorer was way longer than I had guessed while looking at Orders.csv, so I decided to try it. With Favor, Encampment, Shelter, Biscuits, AND Coats (Harpy start bonus), my Humans had over 30 Resolve, so I built more Shelters while contemplating chilling and pushing Resolve, but the Reputation gain is slow with only 8 Humans, so I decided to open a small glade instead. I was afraid that the small glade with fertile soil, as indicated by the Human start bonus, was less likely to contain an event, so I opened a different one, and found a small camp (containing a Harpy and another villager), very lucky. If I didn't have Impetuous Explorer, I would probably just push Resolve instead of opening the small glade.
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Dec 22, 2023 21:48
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I ended up at exactly 30 Resolve anyway, with 12 Humans, and I got 0.67 Reputation before the Biscuits wore off. Now, 30 seconds before storm, I have 12 Humans, 2 Lizards, 2 Harpies, all housed, including one Lizard House, and a Stonecutter's Camp, Lumber Mill, Makeshift Post, Trading Post, Rain Collector, and Crude Workstation. Hopefully I'll only have to use the Crude Workstation once, to build the Furnace that I haven't clicked yet, though I forget what the other option even is. I should've built the Furnace before the Lizard House. I built the Trading Post during Clearance, and in Trade Routes there were no offers for anything I had. Also the Delivery Line from Joyful Humans is Grain, which is not yet food to me, since I don't have a Flour recipe. Porridge exists, of course.
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Dec 22, 2023 23:08
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Jackpot! (This is not the fertile soil indicated by the Human start bonus.) This detail on Open Vault is correct except that my Prestige 20 working time is longer, as you can see. I don't have the resources to Perform Ritual, so I would have to call a trader and then have less than 20 seconds to haul the resources to the event, risky. Otherwise I could start a few seconds before the end of Storm, and it would be fine. I guess I'll take the less valuable option. At least I can start immediately and get my timed order reward sooner. For the cache, I have Training Gear Delivery Line. The blueprint pick I'm sitting on is Plantation vs. Bakery, so I guess it's Plantation time! I wonder if it's also Porridge time.
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Dec 23, 2023 00:36
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Forgot attachment.
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Dec 23, 2023 00:36
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The other thing that happened during Storm was Trade Routes. I sold 13 leftover Coats (and 1 Pack) for 2 Amber (I had 15, but I let the last 2 get consumed instead of rationing them and making people mad), and 25 of my 28 starting Coal at 3 Amber per 5 Coal and 1 Pack. The fourth order is Harpy Relatives (8 Harpy Houses and consume 50 Resolve-boosting meals of Jerky (approx. 75 Jerky on Prestige 20), which I misread during the game as Deliver 50 Jerky; reward is 5 Harpies, +3 Harpy Resolve, and 40 or 50 Insects, I forget) vs. Aid for the Lizard Clan (Deliver 10 Packs of Provisions for 3 Lizards, +3 Lizard Resolve, and some Parts). I wonder if I should've waited, but I was rewarded for picking, because the fifth order was to Deliver 100 Drizzle water, which my Geyser Pump already had a head start on. Saving rerolls for orange cornerstones is a tip from the OP of the Reddit thread. I was offered Hunter-Gatherers (+100% gathering (except woodcutting), -50% fertile soil yield) or +10 Tools per new glade, and even though I've heard a lot of raving about Hunter-Gatherers being busted, I was too lazy to abandon my under-construction farm with its half-plowed fields. I rerolled and was offered Baptism of Fire (-10 Hostility per 3 cysts burnt) or Trade Hub (+1 Reputation per 60 trade, -75% Resolve-based Reputation rate). I picked Trade Hub. I wonder if I can win in Year 3 with Trade Hub. I can go for exports with my 3-star Planks, 3-star Fabric, and 0-star Packs of Building Materials or my 1-star Packs of Trade Goods. I could try to spam glades and caches. I'm worried about hostility in Storm. Maybe I should open another glade so I can build two Small Hearths. I collected my Trade Routes and fulfilled Amber Trade. The blueprint pick gives me Smokehouse (3-star Jerky), very lucky. But I think I might buy some of Zhorg's Jerky anyway for tempo. Also, Trade Hub makes me want to buy goods with Amber, instead of buying tech as I usually do. It will take me at least 9 minutes to eat the Jerky properly, so I think I'm spending most of this year building infrastructure, so it seems unlikely that I can export enough to win in Year 3.
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Dec 23, 2023 02:39
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At the end of Year 2 Clearance, I got four Harpy newcomers, which will help eat the Jerky. It's still gonna take a while though. Winning in Year 3 is not gonna happen. I had 4 non-Order-based Reputation points at the end of Year 2 in the old version! Halfway in Year 2 Storm, I opened a second Dangerous glade, finding Harmony Spirit Altar. I have a Monastery blueprint at this point, but I'm not sure I'm gonna use it, considering Trade Hub. And I have the Coal on hand to burn it down, but I would have to scribe the Scrolls if I wanted to convert it. There's also a ruined Smithy (2-star Tools and Packs of Trade Goods; I have 1-star Trade Goods); salvaging gives me 10 Copper Bars and 5 or 6 Tools, I forget. Neither option is exciting, and neither is terrible. There are some good Trade Routes offers that I can do big volume on. I'll update later with what I ended up trading.
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Dec 23, 2023 04:43
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Year 3 purple perk is +1 Global Resolve per 3 Trade Route Standing (I'll have 3 soon) vs. -10 Hostility per Loyalty decision (I'll have 3 soon). I'll pick one as soon as it becomes relevant, so I'll take the first one at some point before Storm if it turns my Resolve blue, which it looks like it might, otherwise I'll take the second one at Storm so I can cut more wood. Farluf has +15% woodcutting speed (probably +5% wood in practice) for 14 Amber, and 2 Crystal Bars per 10 Berries for 27 Amber. I'm not running a surplus on Wood, but I just don't think I'll get enough value for my 14 Amber. On the other hand, I'm farming up 90 Berries annually, so the other perk seems worth buying. The sixth order is Building the Citadel (Deliver 20 Packs of Building Materials. Reward is +10% villager movespeed, a bunch of Copper Bars, and some Parts.) vs. Lost in the Woods (Complete two Empathy decisions. Reward is Export Specialization and some stuff.). My knee-jerk reaction was that I wasn't gonna make 20 Packs of Building Materials for 1 Reputation, since it would happen so late that I wouldn't enjoy the movespeed for long, so I picked Lost in the Woods since I want to keep exploring anyway. But speaking of making a zillion packs for 1 Reputation, I'm starting to feel more and more that Trade Hub is also unimpressive in a short game. Let's see how I feel when I'm done. The seventh order is screenshotted. I was going to unpause and let Thirsty Trader disappear, but as I write this I'm starting to feel like I should just pick it and mash call trader. I don't have a source of Wine, but if I don't hit, oh well, no big deal. OK, let's see how it goes.
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Dec 23, 2023 05:55
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I opened two Dangerous glades, finding Fallen Humans and the Totem that gives -50 Hostility if converted. Also a Large Cache and a Medium Cache. Then I called the next trader, who happened to bring the Wine I needed. I bought the 40 Wine, and also 30 Incense for the Humans' funeral (Empathy). I was gonna scribe the scrolls to convert the Totem, but I realized too late that I would've had to buy them if I wanted to finish converting before Storm; there's +300 Hostility during the conversion work. So I'll have to burn it down instead, which has no negative working effect. I have the rebuilt Smithy and I have some Tools and a zillion Bars incoming, so I'll save the caches until I can send them to the Queen. Currently it's Year 3 Drizzle past halfway in the season, and I have 6 Reputation from Orders (I need to find one more Empathy event for Lost in the Woods, and the other orders aren't revealed yet), 0.8 from Resolve, 0.5 from Open Vault, 0.75 from the Medium Cache near the Harmony Spirit Altar, and 1 from Trade Hub (50/60 trade value toward next), for a total of 9.05. If I finished the funeral, found and completed another Empathy event, fulfilled the eighth order (revealed 45 seconds into Storm, IIRC), smithed/bought 24 more Tools for the Caches, and got another 0.2 from Resolve, I would have 13.5 Reputation plus anything from the second Empathy event (which needs to be doable during Storm if I want to win this year). If I wash-traded everything I have right now to proc Trade Hub, I might have 16.5 Reputation. I feel like the rest of my capacity would be taken up getting the Tools and dealing with Hostility, so I don't know if I can eke out another 1.5 points. Maybe I could win if I not only found the perfect second Empathy event, but also hit a small glade with a trader that lets me wash-trade at the end of Storm. Forsaken Altar for a chance at Stormforged Mist Piercers? EDIT: Actually since it's a rebuilt Smithy and I don't have the blueprint to build more, I won't be able to make enough Tools in time.
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Dec 23, 2023 07:27
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Thanks for posting. I've been looking for a good source of expert play-along and have come up short before this. Just reading the first few posts (starting in December, I'm trying to lose some early access bad habits) in order to feel qualified to post even a perfunctory reply has me considering things I hadn't before. edit: Actually, I will pose a few questions, if you're cool with fielding questions in this thread. So far, my inclination is that maximizing labor is almost always the correct choice when offered (with a caveat that non-immediate labor rewards are much more questionable), and some of your posts seem to agree with this. Relatedly, I think a lot about worker travel time / general logistics and I see paths in your screenshots. While I feel like I have some semi-grounded idea of the value of carry capacity / production building storage, the accurate valuation of travel time from roads and perks is much more elusive. I really question if I'm completely wasting my time building basic paths (discounting forest mysteries, etc.), or when its worth spending the laborer time to build stone/copper paths when materials aren't an issue, when it's worth picking travel time choices, etc. metasynthetic fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Dec 23, 2023 |
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Dec 23, 2023 11:03
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I've wondered about paths, too! Well, it's gotta be worth it for high-traffic, right? I think it's good to have an avenue that passes the front of the main warehouse, and two side streets on either side, forming a ⊨ shape. And you want to surround your hearth, because resting workers pick a random position around the hearth to stand. Then it seems natural to extend each side street iff doing so would link it with the path around the hearth. I'm less sure about making a road to my first additional base (where at the very least there will be a lot of woodcutting) or surrounding the hearth there. It probably depends on how much game is left and what else the workers could be doing.
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Dec 23, 2023 17:14
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Correction: The eighth order arrives at the start of Year 4. Anyway, I became rich enough to win by wash-trade when my Trade Routes completed in the middle of Year 4 Drizzle. Man, the Trade Routes feel so mediocre early on, but they really ramp up. So, was Trade Hub worth picking? It changes the win condition from "be rich at the start of the year you want to win in" to "be mega-rich by the end of Drizzle in that year". Is that helpful? I think so? But maybe other orange cornerstones are better. You can be pretty fearless about Hostility if you're gonna win in Year 4. Maybe I should've done two Dangerous glades in Year 2.
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Dec 23, 2023 20:08
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My current game can maybe win Year 3. It's Prestige 20, the event is "open no more than one dangerous/forbidden glade", and I have a bunch of cycle buffs that I'll list afterward when I get back to the overworld. I started with 14 population, did two non-timed Resolve orders (requiring +10 Resolve, which I got with Shelters, Encampment, Favor, and unassigning woodcutters until Hostility < 100) and Delivery (3 Trade Routes and Deliver 5 Packs of Crops), all of which granted population, putting me at 22. Then, if I remember correctly, I only got offered +2 vs. +3 newcomers at 10:00, even though I thought it was supposed to be proportional to current population, and I took +2 in order to keep one more woodcutter active. Also, I built Trading Post first and called the trader immediately, trading about 10 Parts for 25 Planks, 5 Bricks, and 5 Fabric, approximately, which seems like a good move for tempo, even though I had Supplier and Leathercrafter blueprints. (I started with at least 7 more Parts than usual.) I did this early enough that the second trader arrived at the start of Year 2. I opened a dangerous glade halfway in Storm, and got Blood Flower, which gave me 20 Wine and 20 Waterskins in exchange for eating all my food, though I held 20 Complex Food in each of two Field Kitchens from being delivered, along with a full Roots-gathering camp, and the medium cache in the same glade that had about 50 Complex Food in it. Currently it's about a minute before the second Storm, I have all my species in the blue zone on account of all that Complex Food, though the Reputation from it hasn't amounted to a full point yet. I traded for 50 Ale, 50 Wine, and +5 Resolve from Ale on speculation, and I'm hoping I can win in Year 3 if I get to serve the Ale.
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Dec 31, 2023 01:33
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I bought the Tavern blueprint from the final trader of the year (called at the "cost" of 4 Impatience), but it was too late, I only made it to around 15-16 Reputation by the end of the year. My cycle buffs were: +2 population, 70 food, 30 Grain, 15 Packs of Provisions. I had 6 Embark points, which I spent on population, Amber, and Stone (which I used to crack the cache).
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Dec 31, 2023 06:25
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Next game, I also have the cycle buff +10 Tools, +20 Stone. Map modifier is 6 starting Impatience, which is all upside for the purpose of winning in Year 3, since it still leaves you just enough runway to call four traders (0.5, 1, 2, 4). First three orders are 3 Human Houses and 3 Beaver Houses (reward includes population), something non-notable, and Joyful Beavers. For the purple perk, I took +1 Lizard per 25 Eggs. First two years felt like I didn't get much industry going, spent most of my labor doing glade work and setting up triple Encampment. It felt like a slow start, and I mentally gave up on winning in Year 3. But now in the middle of Year 3 Drizzle, I got a Temple blueprint and it suddenly seems theoretically possible to win this year, if I somehow also luck into a Tavern very soon. I got 9 villagers from glade rewards, so now I have a little over 40 population! My net worth feels OK, not great, not terrible. (I got Cheap Construction in Year 2.) But I'm too lazy to pivot to the Year-3 plan gambling on Tavern. Maybe the trick is to play Coral Forest. But also, it's all about the cycle buffs; at the end of the day, that's the only real conclusion about all this. I wish I'd unlocked fair mode on my last cycle instead of timidly trying Sealed Forest on Prestige 15 first.
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Dec 31, 2023 22:24
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The time has come. I feel it. Coral Forest with Barren Lands (no Fertile Soil) and Ominous Presence (+100% annual Hostility gain, which will hurt, despite being worth +2.7% crit on average with the Coral Forest effect, but I want to farm Reserve Embark Points). My cycle buffs:
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Jan 8, 2024 04:49
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I got no population from the first three orders, though I did get Housing Estate (timed 6 Shelters) for Export Specialization and the Bath House blueprint. I opened two dangerous glades, and for my orange perk, I picked Fedora (50% chance to get twice as many goods from glade work). Glades had Altar-of-Minus-Hostility-on-Villager-Loss (useless, so I looted it), Large Destroyed Caravan (loot is the only good choice), two ruins that I salvaged, and a Tavern I'm rebuilding. It's now 30 seconds before Year 2 Storm. I won the Fedora coinflip on the salvages and whiffed on the Large Destroyed Caravan; Altar is almost done. The issue is population, though. I started with fifteen, but after 1.625 years, I still have only sixteen; I got two newcomers and lost one villager in a stupid blunder while juggling Resolve. The next wave of newcomers is almost here, and I'm also expecting two villagers from an order I'll complete soon. When I won on the old patch, I had 18 villagers just before the first wave of newcomers, and one minute into Year 3 Drizzle, I had 27. In the other game that I think I would've won with max Citadel upgrades, I had 21 just before the first wave, which had 5 (!) newcomers, bringing me to 26. Since I don't have those 50% more population or so, I need 50% more Resolve instead, which is too much. Another difference is that you used to get orders at 10-minute intervals even when the Prestige modifier extended the length of the year to 12 minutes. Now they line up sensibly with the year, so the eighth order comes at the beginning of Year 4, unfortunately for people trying to win in Year 3. Xom fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Jan 8, 2024 |
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Jan 8, 2024 08:29
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One last try before I unlock fair mode. Coral Forest with no modifiers, and otherwise essentially the same embark goods. Started with 15 Harpies and Lizards, evenly split. Purple perk is +2 newcomers per wave! First three orders all give population! Got blueprints for Toolshop, Grill, Tavern, and Supplier so far. Harpies and Lizards don't drink Wine or Ale, but the other choice was Small Farm, and I'm feeling good about food with Grill, and I wanted to see the next pick, and indeed I was rewarded with Supplier.
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Jan 10, 2024 02:08
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37 population at the start of Year 3, which is satisfactory. Trader is useless Farluf; I already called once in order to solve event, so I have three traders left. I am not particularly rich, though I have a lot of labor if I can find some useful blueprints. I think I'm gonna open a new glade and hope for the best.
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Jan 10, 2024 06:25
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I did it! I won in Year 3, 16 seconds into Storm. 6 points from Orders (couldn't find a source of Scrolls for one of the Year 3 Orders) 0.75 points from cache in early glades 0.5 points bought from trader 1 point from Corrupted Caravan (discovered at start of Year 3) 1.5 points from caches in Corrupted Caravan glade 8.25 points total from Resolve:
Opened two dangerous glades in Year 1 Storm, and both had Harmony Spirit Altars (when converted, +2 global Resolve per unique service building), which I converted (called trader and bought more Oil for the second one). One had a Workshop ruin and a medium cache, and the other had a Storm geyser and a big campground. I think I only had around 0.6 points from Resolve at the beginning of Year 3. At the beginning of Year 3, I had Grill and three Field Kitchens. Later I got a bunch of other food blueprints. Over the course of the game, I produced some of every complex food except Porridge. At the end, I had Tavern, Temple, and Explorers' Lodge. I produced a bit of Ale for my few Humans, and I collected around 50 Incense from the trees. I didn't trade for service goods because I was hoping for better options from a later trader. For the first time in my memory, I didn't build any species housing, in order to conserve building materials for delivering on multiple Orders and for service buildings. I already mentioned my decision to open a third glade in Year 3 Drizzle. It had Corrupted Caravan and two caches, for a total of 2.5 points! I also decided to open a fourth glade at the beginning of Clearance, and it had Fuming Machinery (which I ignored, since the threat timer was 9+ minutes) and 1.75 points worth of caches; both were still in progress (Crystal trees + Toolshop!) when I won, so the fourth glade was unnecessary after all. I had a bit less than 100% corruption in Year 2, and I had over 900% in Year 3, which would've killed more than half of my villagers. I won before anybody died, which I wasn't expecting. I'd planned from the outset not to build a Blightpost, and got lucky in being able to trade for 6 Purging Fire to solve the Corrupted Caravan. Another thing I wasn't expecting was that I did get to call one more trader for 8 Impatience after all, at a point when I dipped to 5.9X Impatience. It was useless Farluf again, but I wanted the Impatience. It put me into Last Stand, of course, but it's no big deal, because gaining Reputation to a whole number takes you out of a Last Stand (back to 17.5 Impatience). Xom posted:I couldn't find an animated gif but this is what plays in my head whenever I apply Tools to a cache: Xom fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Jan 10, 2024 |
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Jan 10, 2024 09:32
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By the way, I would've been fine without Master Blueprint (which grants all advanced camp blueprints, and slows gathering by half for the next 300 charges), just with my massive embark goods and the small nodes I had. (The glades were open already when I was choosing.) But I didn't know that before playing it out.
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Jan 10, 2024 10:16
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For Seal Orders, I had planned on caches-trade-Amber-Resolve, but I ended up doing rain engines instead of caches, because after opening one small glade (because it had a lot of big trees), one dangerous glade on the way to the Seal Keeper, and one dangerous glade containing the Seal Keeper, I had found only two caches. With my cycle buff, I had enough Pipes for the eight rain engines, but not enough for eight engines plus a Geyser Pump. It was straightforward anyway, considering that I spent my 38 Embark Points on population, Planks, Parts, Packs of Provisions, and four service good delivery lines. I'm disappointed that Queen's Hand Trial is not actually fair mode, since it gives you Citadel resources for each failed run.
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Jan 11, 2024 08:57
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Do you play the game at the slowest possible speed at all times to try to optimize every decision? I probably play at 2x most of the time and I imagine that it must be quite a different game played this way.
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Jan 11, 2024 13:22
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It's more about micromanaging the production and consumption of resources whose amount is near zero, rather than about decisions.
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Jan 11, 2024 18:01
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| # ? May 3, 2024 17:04 |
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Xom posted:Then, if I remember correctly, I only got offered +2 vs. +3 newcomers at 10:00, even though I thought it was supposed to be proportional to current population Merchant Shipwreck Update (2023-4-27) posted:The size of the Newcomers caravan now scales with in-game years instead of scaling with the number of villagers in the settlement.
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Jan 14, 2024 23:34
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