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i am kiss u now
Dec 26, 2005


College Slice

Rolo posted:

I’m in a long SAN layover and I am this close to buying a banana board for when I get trips to cities with weather this chill.

I get home tomorrow afternoon. How long you there for?

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Rolo
Nov 16, 2005

Hmm, what have we here?
Just until early tomorrow. Went to El Gordo for Al pastor lunch tacos, about to go to underbelly for dinner ramen.

I’m eating pretty good today.

i am kiss u now
Dec 26, 2005


College Slice

Rolo posted:

Just until early tomorrow. Went to El Gordo for Al pastor lunch tacos, about to go to underbelly for dinner ramen.

I’m eating pretty good today.

Well, let me know if you’re around town again. Always down for a goonmeet, or even a goon flight.

Bob A Feet
Aug 10, 2005
Dear diary, I got another erection today at work. SO embarrassing, but kinda hot. The CO asked me to fix up his dress uniform. I had stayed late at work to move his badges 1/8" to the left and pointed it out this morning. 1SG spanked me while the CO watched, once they caught it. Tomorrow I get to start all over again...

Rolo posted:

Just until early tomorrow. Went to El Gordo for Al pastor lunch tacos, about to go to underbelly for dinner ramen.

I’m eating pretty good today.

Bro, it’s hard to beat little Italy for some good eats. That’s one of the best places in the country. Check out the midway or the aviation museum if you find yourself there again.

God bless San Diego, what a great loving place

Butt Reactor
Oct 6, 2005

Even in zero gravity, you're an asshole.

e.pilot posted:

:siren: If you would like to be special and listed (or updated) in my Pilots ITT list. Please either PM me or respond to this message :f5: (please do NOT quote A text). Also since V5.0 if you'd rather me put your airport vs Country let me know.

I just realized I haven't updated my credentials in a long loving time. Add E170/190 PIC, A320 PIC, and B757/767 to the list.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

While weekly runway incursions are terrifying, the audio here is just…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yooJmu30DxY

“Tower Southwest 2937, I guess we need a phone number”

:discourse:

Reztes
Jun 20, 2003

e.pilot posted:

:siren: If you would like to be special and listed (or updated) in my Pilots ITT list. Please either PM me or respond to this message :f5: (please do NOT quote ALL the text). Also since V5.0 if you'd rather me put your airport vs Country let me know.

Oh I guess I should follow directions, too. Please update me senpai

KSNA - ATP AMEL CFI/II/MEI IR, B737, CE-500, CE-560XL

Arson Daily
Aug 11, 2003

hobbesmaster posted:

While weekly runway incursions are terrifying, the audio here is just…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yooJmu30DxY

“Tower Southwest 2937, I guess we need a phone number”

:discourse:

DCA is such a shitshow. its probably the most threat filled airport i go to and number 2 isnt even close

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Arson Daily posted:

DCA is such a shitshow. its probably the most threat filled airport i go to and number 2 isnt even close

JFK is trying hard though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW6lAwLy_Os

Note the dates…

Rolo
Nov 16, 2005

Hmm, what have we here?

i am kiss u now posted:

Well, let me know if you’re around town again. Always down for a goonmeet, or even a goon flight.

Sure will, I try to get trips there when I can.

Bob A Feet posted:

Bro, it’s hard to beat little Italy for some good eats. That’s one of the best places in the country. Check out the midway or the aviation museum if you find yourself there again.

God bless San Diego, what a great loving place

Right? I always eat so good there.

Man my year has been full of coincidences. April 19 was my one year at AA :cheers:. One last post-flight report from the captain and boom, I'm off of new hire probation. We have almost 17k pilots at this point and the guy I flew with was the one who interviewed me in Dallas for the position. I greased all my landings, nailed all my procedures and handled some last second changes well over the trip. I was in the zone. Dude shakes my hand at the end, congratulates me and tells me he's glad the company picked me up. It's now tied for the most wholesome moment of my career, I could not stop smiling on the way home.

Vahakyla
May 3, 2013

Arson Daily posted:

oh hey one other trick is to set your seat exactly the same way so that your sight picture doesnt change. anything you can do to reduce the number of variables is helpful

On the air force T-6, there’s this little green box or something, dunno how to describe it, that sits above the EADI. You are supposed to adjust your seat rails and height so that you cut that little 1x2cm green box precisely from the centerline with your brow panel while using your gaze. You do this every time you sit in it.

Sim, full motion sim, and the real deal. It all just sits perfectly!

It’s crazy how effective it is. I definitely didn’t give two shits about it initially.

Lord Stimperor
Jun 13, 2018

I'm a lovable meme.

Thanks for the tip with looking at the end of the runway. Tried it today and the experience was butter.

Wombot
Sep 11, 2001

Hell yeah!

Reztes
Jun 20, 2003

I’m glad that’s working for you folks, but baffled that it had to come from here. IMO that’s as fundamental as looking outside during steep turns. CFIs these days boy I tell ya :argh: :corsair:

Anyway to elaborate on that method, once you’re looking at the end, you can develop the sight picture and feel of the roundout by smoothly bringing the nose of the plane up to the horizon (or, depending on your aircraft type, covering the end of the runway completely). From there you just add backpressure as needed to keep that sight picture until you tun out of energy and touch down.

Reztes fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Apr 26, 2024

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Vahakyla posted:

On the air force T-6, there’s this little green box or something, dunno how to describe it, that sits above the EADI. You are supposed to adjust your seat rails and height so that you cut that little 1x2cm green box precisely from the centerline with your brow panel while using your gaze. You do this every time you sit in it.

Sim, full motion sim, and the real deal. It all just sits perfectly!

It’s crazy how effective it is. I definitely didn’t give two shits about it initially.

It’s common in lots of bigger airplanes. Airbus and Douglas both use(d) a trio of balls in the windscreen divider for the two flight crew to align their eye position. I think Airbus calls it the Eye Reference Indicator.

Rolo
Nov 16, 2005

Hmm, what have we here?
I call it the balls and I use them.

epswing
Nov 4, 2003

Soiled Meat
Hello, thread! Sometime last year I casually started reading through the previous thread and got through more than 60 pages before this thread was started. I've also read a bunch of Admiral Cloudberg's work, I really enjoy the long-form articles that take their time with the details.

As someone in the software development world, the aviation industry is fascinating to me, in particular the lengths the NTSB and other similar organizations will go to find and fix potential issues. I think there's a lot other industries can learn from how aviation carries itself.

Anyways, questions:

What are the requirements/credentials a person needs to become an NTSB investigator?

And I know this is a stupid question, but I'm interested in the discussion:

Why don't pilots have access to parachutes? The first obvious answer that comes to mind is you don't really want the pilots of an airliner to jump ship at the first sign of trouble. But in some cases, like a cargo plane with no passengers flying over unpopulated land or sea, if there's some catastrophic event that dooms the aircraft, it appears the pilots are forced to go down with the ship. In flight school are there any topics that discuss this?

Kwolok
Jan 4, 2022

epswing posted:


Why don't pilots have access to parachutes? The first obvious answer that comes to mind is you don't really want the pilots of an airliner to jump ship at the first sign of trouble. But in some cases, like a cargo plane with no passengers flying over unpopulated land or sea, if there's some catastrophic event that dooms the aircraft, it appears the pilots are forced to go down with the ship. In flight school are there any topics that discuss this?

I can't speak for all aircraft. It is likely much much safer to try fly the plane all the way to the ground to the best of your abilities. If the aircraft is so out of control that you cannot even manage to control it, you likely would never be able to safely exit the aircraft anyway. Especially on big massive airliners/cargo planes, not sure how you would safely exit a plane like that, in theory maybe if you can open the cargo hatch but that feels more action movie than practical. Also, it can be somewhat reckless to abandon a plane over populated areas as that plane can now fly into houses/people on the ground. This is a similar reason why fighter pilots don't punch out until the very last moment. This is also why in some cases pilots do in fact die because they choose to put the plane in the least populated areas as opposed to the safest decision for themselves.

All in all, my uneducated and inexperienced opinion (~20 hours of flight school so far) is that in most cases it is safer to attempt to fly the aircraft and land, and it is generally the responsible/right thing to do if the plane is having issues over populated areas. Exiting planes in motion is not a trivial matter, not to mention parachutes need a certain amount of height to deploy, and you are only adding factors and distraction to a situation where you should be flying the drat plane and going through your checklists.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

epswing posted:

What are the requirements/credentials a person needs to become an NTSB investigator?

Field investigators have a really simple list of basic requirements, but frequently come from wildly varying backgrounds. Aeronautical engineers, materials engineers, senior flight crew, experienced MX people and inspectors, etc. There’s a couple slots for ATC liaison people that help collect and organize that side of incidents that hires exclusively controllers that I’ve had my eye on, but it’s a pretty significant pay and benefits cut for me. Basically my backup plan if I lose my medical.

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

epswing posted:

Hello, thread! Sometime last year I casually started reading through the previous thread and got through more than 60 pages before this thread was started. I've also read a bunch of Admiral Cloudberg's work, I really enjoy the long-form articles that take their time with the details.

As someone in the software development world, the aviation industry is fascinating to me, in particular the lengths the NTSB and other similar organizations will go to find and fix potential issues. I think there's a lot other industries can learn from how aviation carries itself.

Anyways, questions:

What are the requirements/credentials a person needs to become an NTSB investigator?

And I know this is a stupid question, but I'm interested in the discussion:

Why don't pilots have access to parachutes? The first obvious answer that comes to mind is you don't really want the pilots of an airliner to jump ship at the first sign of trouble. But in some cases, like a cargo plane with no passengers flying over unpopulated land or sea, if there's some catastrophic event that dooms the aircraft, it appears the pilots are forced to go down with the ship. In flight school are there any topics that discuss this?

because you'd have to depressurize the cabin to open the door and then you'd pass out and die before you opened the door

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

epswing posted:

Why don't pilots have access to parachutes? The first obvious answer that comes to mind is you don't really want the pilots of an airliner to jump ship at the first sign of trouble.

if there's some catastrophic event that dooms the aircraft, it appears the pilots are forced to go down with the ship.

In flight school are there any topics that discuss this?

Whether at the first sign of trouble or in a desperate and hopeless situation, it's considered rude for the captain of the plane to bail out and leave 150 other people to a certain death. So that's why it doesn't happen on commercial airliners, mostly.

More importantly, though, those desperate and hopeless situations are extremely rare. Planes don't just unexpectedly fall out of the sky -- usually it takes something like being shot with a surface-to-air missile, or an engine fire that burns through the wing, or the situation on Alaska 261, for that to happen. Even if the fuel runs out or the engines fail, the plane will keep on flying in a slow descent, giving you anywhere from a few minutes to the better part of an hour to figure things out. Most in-flight emergencies just mean that you have to divert to the nearest airport, or at worst perform an emergency landing in a field or a highway.

As a private pilot you are certainly entitled to buy and wear a parachute while flying if you want. But every pilot also has a duty to not cause an undue hazard to people on the ground. By bailing out at the first sign of trouble you might improve your chance of surviving a little, but your airplane is now guaranteed to crash into something in a less controlled manner than if you tried to put it down safely. As that idiot youtuber guy discovered, if you use your chute you'll still have to explain to the FAA why you thought that was a better idea than doing an emergency landing in a field as every private pilot is trained to do.

Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Apr 26, 2024

Lord Stimperor
Jun 13, 2018

I'm a lovable meme.

Reztes posted:

I’m glad that’s working for you folks, but baffled that it had to come from here. IMO that’s as fundamental as looking outside during steep turns. CFIs these days boy I tell ya :argh: :corsair:

Anyway to elaborate on that method, once you’re looking at the end, you can develop the sight picture and feel of the roundout by smoothly bringing the nose of the plane up to the horizon (or, depending on your aircraft type, covering the end of the runway completely). From there you just add backpressure as needed to keep that sight picture until you tun out of energy and touch down.

You know, my instructor(s) probably did tell me to focus my eyes on the end of the runway. But I'm dumb as rocks and what with 6 months of the year being basically IFR, I need reminders. :v:

But speaking of instructors reminding you of things, I did get my first difference training today :science:. As of today I'm allowed to fly variable pitch. Our flying club got a brand-new looking (its actually from 2013) light airplane. It's basically a Rotax-beefed-up sail plane, like many modern small planes are. And it glides. You idle the engine for a simulated engine failure and it just keeps going, and going, and going. Practice emergency landings? Better hope visibility is good because you might as well select a field that's on the horizon, you're not coming down earlier than that. It also just doesn't really stall if the wings are sort of level. It just lowers the nose a bit and then lazily tumbles down. We flew less than 40 kts when the stall actually became noticeable in terms of sink rate. Add even the slightest bit of power or push the nose further down and it's going again. On the opposite end of the power spectrum, if you put the engine in max continuous it goes at 130 knots.

And it starts up the first time you crank it! The battery doesn't poo poo itself in the winter! The engine doesn't want to go out if it's cold and the OAT is < 15 degrees. It has stall heat! Touch screen avionics! Punching in a route is a matter of seconds if you don't have to scroll through the alphabet with a dumb rotary knob. Brilliant little thing. The only real downsides are that it's a fair bit heavier to tow on the ground than the two-seater it replaces, and that it will also be a little bit more expensive to rent.



The club FI who did the difference training nudged me to take a peek at one of the schools he's working at (he's an airline captain and complete aviation nut who, next to his airline job, does a bunch of GA stuff at different and companies, in addition to helping run our club). He wonders how I'd find it to get an instructor rating to start working on my CPL. He also said I could still try to get a spot at his airline's academy, mid-thirties wouldn't be too late. It's not the first time he asked me that, last year when I was finishing my PPL he was already chatting me up about ways to get into commercial aviation. He makes it really difficult to suppress my mid-life crisis!


I'm thinking I might just sign up at the airline academy so they can reject me and I can be done with it. Completing the application makes me feel really akward. The sign-up form is asking when I graduated high school or if I'm still in school. If I already had a university study in mind, or even studied a bit. And I should include work experience, such as, ahem, summer jobs or extracurricular work. I feel old. But I am actually eligible. And I feel with a PhD in a science field and a bunch of work experience in number crunching I can sort of compensate for lackluster math performance in high school. Worst case they all have a good laugh. Best case I can use my savings account to survive while they make me ATPL.


Should I send the application, see what comes back?


epswing posted:

Why don't pilots have access to parachutes? The first obvious answer that comes to mind is you don't really want the pilots of an airliner to jump ship at the first sign of trouble. But in some cases, like a cargo plane with no passengers flying over unpopulated land or sea, if there's some catastrophic event that dooms the aircraft, it appears the pilots are forced to go down with the ship. In flight school are there any topics that discuss this?

In addition to what the others have said about big planes, in small planes you do occassionally see parachutes. In my old glider club, it was mandatory to get into the plane with a parachute. No they didn't explain to us how to use them. But they did work, because a couple of years ago someone bailed out of a disintegraing glider while the other crew member stayed in and died. But as Sagebrush says, it's a real tough call to make. If I bail out, does my plane fall into an orphanage? What if it turns out afterwards that it was a completely avoidable accident? I bet a lot of people were alive today had they admitted to themselves that they wouldn't be able to fix their situation, and/or that it's better to get asked uncomfortable questions than to be dead.

Also, at this point ultralight airplanes often carry rescue chutes for the entire plane. IIRC, EASA also has made them mandatory for new constructions. Many accidents occur because pilots wait for far too long before they ask for help / declare emergencies / admit to themselves that the situation won't become better. The situation won't get better and the aircraft runs out of options. The manuals of these planes therefore are very explicit that when in doubt about the landability of the airplane, the rescue chute is the first, not the last option. I don't have a source at hand, but I've read blog posts and articles that suggest that across general aviation, such chutes have turned many fatalities into insurance claims. I would like to at some point have one of these - even if it's just for morale.

Lord Stimperor fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Apr 26, 2024

Salami Surgeon
Jan 21, 2001

Don't close. Don't close.


Nap Ghost

epswing posted:

What are the requirements/credentials a person needs to become an NTSB investigator?

AV Web videos have gotten boring as poo poo lately, but I did find this one interesting. Interview with Kristi Dunks​, Deputy Director for Regional Operations at NTSB. She talks about becoming an investigator somewhere in there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHW4C56q_NA&t=748s

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Kwolok posted:

I can't speak for all aircraft. It is likely much much safer to try fly the plane all the way to the ground to the best of your abilities. If the aircraft is so out of control that you cannot even manage to control it, you likely would never be able to safely exit the aircraft anyway. Especially on big massive airliners/cargo planes, not sure how you would safely exit a plane like that, in theory maybe if you can open the cargo hatch but that feels more action movie than practical. Also, it can be somewhat reckless to abandon a plane over populated areas as that plane can now fly into houses/people on the ground. This is a similar reason why fighter pilots don't punch out until the very last moment. This is also why in some cases pilots do in fact die because they choose to put the plane in the least populated areas as opposed to the safest decision for themselves.

This is drifting off into trivia land that may be better for one of the other aviation threads (AI or the TFR Cold War one which appears to be on a forum safari atm) but has there ever been a bail out from a transport category aircraft which… well, didn’t involve DB Cooper, I’m feeling too lazy to figure out the qualifiers there.

A few airliners, or rather prototypes, special variants and their military derivatives have had special equipment for emergency bailouts. I know some examples include the 747 prototype, the 747 based space shuttle transporter, the P-8 (and P-3 - it’s an Electra). Have any actually been used? The 747 bail out tunnel description I found once sounded about as practical as the ejection seats on the space shuttle orbiter.

Arson Daily
Aug 11, 2003

I love the internet sometimes. There is a derelict DC-10 sitting in Havana and I could not for the life of me figure out how such an airplane would come to be scrapped in Cuba. After searching a bunch of lovely web 1.0 websites I figured out that it is an ex Air New Zeeland tail that got sold off and then leased to a bunch of now defunct operators and then somehow ended up in Havana to slowly rot in the tropical sun. I'm not exactly sure what caused it to be there in the first place unfortunately. I'm sure there is some old timer that knows but I don't know enough Spanish to figure it out.

As a funny aside the last time I was in Cuba there was an Air China Cargo 747-400f unloading cargo. I found it a little funny that two ostensibly communist countries would be engaging in commerce using a capitalist pigdog icon to do it.

Bob A Feet
Aug 10, 2005
Dear diary, I got another erection today at work. SO embarrassing, but kinda hot. The CO asked me to fix up his dress uniform. I had stayed late at work to move his badges 1/8" to the left and pointed it out this morning. 1SG spanked me while the CO watched, once they caught it. Tomorrow I get to start all over again...
Is it MCI that has a bunch of old airliners rotting on the ramp? Lots of old liveries as you taxi by.

I enjoy the same thing.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

hobbesmaster posted:

This is drifting off into trivia land that may be better for one of the other aviation threads (AI or the TFR Cold War one which appears to be on a forum safari atm) but has there ever been a bail out from a transport category aircraft which… well, didn’t involve DB Cooper, I’m feeling too lazy to figure out the qualifiers there.

A few airliners, or rather prototypes, special variants and their military derivatives have had special equipment for emergency bailouts. I know some examples include the 747 prototype, the 747 based space shuttle transporter, the P-8 (and P-3 - it’s an Electra). Have any actually been used? The 747 bail out tunnel description I found once sounded about as practical as the ejection seats on the space shuttle orbiter.

There was a bailout from another 727 in 2012.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Boeing_727_crash_experiment

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

That was completely preplanned and a “perfectly fine” aircraft.

I ask because while it is hard to come up with a scenario where it’d make sense to do it and the g forces+pressurization situation actually support it being possible some aircraft/missions have been set up for it.

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010

I am stupid
The CIA allegedly parachuted people out of the back stair of 727s during Vietnam, does that count?

Lord Stimperor
Jun 13, 2018

I'm a lovable meme.

I've filled in the application letter doe the airline flight school. Buddy at the airline is looking over it. Might hit send tonight.

KodiakRS
Jul 11, 2012

:stonk:

hobbesmaster posted:

I ask because while it is hard to come up with a scenario where it’d make sense to do it and the g forces+pressurization situation actually support it being possible some aircraft/missions have been set up for it.

A United 232 type situation where you have limited control but not enough to land is the only thing I can think of.

Lord Stimperor
Jun 13, 2018

I'm a lovable meme.

Don't worry guys i solved it




*Hits bong*

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Why not just make the parachute twice as big and put it on the whole plane

the milk machine
Jul 23, 2002

lick my keys
smarter to let the wings + engines separate from the fuselage. that's where all the fire and potential fire is kept

Lord Stimperor
Jun 13, 2018

I'm a lovable meme.

I submitted my application for the airline flight academy. So now it's waiting to see if they laugh me out of the door, whether I flunk out by loving up any of the 27 IQ-tests they make you do, or whether I manage to completely upend my life.

cigaw
Sep 13, 2012

Sagebrush posted:

Why not just make the parachute twice as big and put it on the whole plane

Hear me out: gigantic turbofan powered paraglider. Think of the Mustard video we'd get 30 years from now!

Lord Stimperor posted:

I submitted my application for the airline flight academy. So now it's waiting to see if they laugh me out of the door, whether I flunk out by loving up any of the 27 IQ-tests they make you do, or whether I manage to completely upend my life.
Fingers crossed for you!

cigaw fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Apr 29, 2024

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

KodiakRS posted:

A United 232 type situation where you have limited control but not enough to land is the only thing I can think of.

This actually makes perfect sense for the P-8 because that’s not an unlikely failure mode after taking a hit from a missile:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Baghdad_DHL_attempted_shootdown_incident?wprov=sfti1

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Kwolok
Jan 4, 2022
Small plane went down about a mile from me at an airport I frequent. Well he went down outside the airport after he lost his engine and was unable to make it to the runway. He survived after putting it in a residential area and was taken to the hospital but is expected to make a full recovery with only moderate injuries.

Here is the atc audio someone posted on our local subreddit: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6VfQfHOJfF/

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