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Problem description: Today I tried starting up my old computer to try and transfer some old files to the new computer and play around with it, but it will not power on. Some of the lights will turn on briefly (on the front, on the motherboard, and on the video card) and it sounds like it it's trying to start, but then it will go off, then go on again briefly, and repeat until I unplug the power cable. I think the issue might be with the power supply, but I'm not entirely sure. Attempted fixes: I've tried unplugging all the cord from the back, save the power cord, and starting it up, but there were no changes. I opened up the computer and pressed on the some of the connections in the case they may have been jarred loose, but either I missed some, or that isn't the issue. I tried it on a different outlet, but the same thing happened. Recent changes: The only change that I made right before discovering the problem was that I tried connecting a ethernet cable from the old computer to the new computer. When I realized it wasn't starting up, I unplugged the ethernet cable. I haven't started it up in roughly a month or so, but it seemed like it was doing okay then (there was an instance a while back where it seemed like it had some issue starting up, but it was more so that it was slow). EDIT: The last time I had it on was December 15th, 2023, so it has been about one month. -- Operating system: Windows 10 64-bit System specs: CPU Intel Core i7 4790K @ 4.00GHz RAM 16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 800MHz (10-10-10-30) [Kingston KHX1600C10D3/8G DDR3] Motherboard ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. Z97-A-USB31 Graphics 4095MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 (EVGA) Storage 3726GB Seagate ST4000DM004-2CV104 (SATA ) 931GB Crucial CT1000MX 500SSD1 SCSI Disk Device (SATA (SSD)) 465GB Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500G SCSI Disk Device (SATA (SSD)) Optical Drives HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GH24NSC0 SCSI CdRom Device Power Supply Corsair CX850M Location: United States I have Googled and read the FAQ: Yes Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Jan 13, 2024 |
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Jan 12, 2024 23:16
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UPDATE: So I went in to my local computer shop to ask about the issue. They charge $100 to do a diagnostic, so they advised me to run through some steps to test and see what could be causing the power cycling first. I realized that there was another change I made to the computer that I forgot to mention: I switched out the DVD drive it had for a Blu-Ray drive. I disconnected the Blu-Ray drive, removed the video card, and reset the CMOS battery on the motherboard, testing to see if the power cycling would stop. Unfortunately, the power cycling keep happening, so I think it is the power supply. I'm going to order a new 850W modular PSU and switch them out to see if it fixes the issue. If it doesn't, then the clerk said it may be the motherboard has failed, in which case, I'd either have to find a motherboard that would work with the CPU inside, or just build a whole new computer (maybe harvesting some of the parts from the old one). I tried accessing the primary hard drive with a SATA connector I had, and from a quick look, it doesn't seem like that drive has been compromised. However, in trying to access my User folder on the drive, it would not grant me permission to the folder. I did a search online, and the solution offered was to uncheck the 'Read-Only' setting in the folder properties. I did that, but I then worried if it would cause issues when/if I got the computer set back up again, so I cancelled the process half-way through it marking the files not to be 'Read-Only'.
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Jan 14, 2024 01:12
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Yes, it could be a PSU issue. I'd disconnect all those drives temporarily and see if you can get it to POST.
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Jan 14, 2024 06:25
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So the new PSU arrived (Corsair RM850x), and after spending a couple of hours trying to get it installed (mostly made hard by how difficult it is to remove the 24-pin connector from the motherboard), I got everything plugged in and...it's still power-cycling.  I tried unplugging the drives, save for the primary, but it still happened.So this coming weekend (provided there are no other issues), I'm going to take the computer up to the computer shop and pay the $100 to try and ascertain the problem. I'm guessing it might be the motherboard, based on what I was told there, so that means I'll have to buy a new board and a new CPU for it. However, if I can make use of the other parts from the old one (RAM, video card, and the new power supply), then I can save some money that way. My main goal is to get it so I don't lose the data on the drives, and can still use the computer/install of Windows as it was before it went on the fritz.
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Jan 16, 2024 00:42
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If what you want is just restoring your old pc files, you can try alternative methods like using a ssd/hdd reader(depending your hard drive) and just copy whatever you want. You may also use OS like rescuezilla to fully transfer your harddrive content to another if you want your entire drive. If I must make a wild guess on what might be the issue, it could be your CPU pins on your motherboard, they are one of the most vulnerable places that can go wrong. Troubleshooting your own PC can be pretty f*cking annoying, I've been there. My previous PC was fried by the unstable power from the previous rented house, and I only found out after I moved out months later, and I went through every component. Troubleshooting the issue is even more of a challenge because the issue was the PC would suddenly stop its power and restarts, at random, when the PC is on for like 4-40 hours(so I cannot tell if I fixed the problem immedietely), after a month of struggling(because troubleshooting is pain and I need to wait for deliveries) I finally locate the issue, replaced both PSU and motherboard because they were both fried.
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Jan 27, 2024 04:32
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Good lord was any troubleshooting done? The computer shop do anything? This seems like just a RAM issue. Reseat the duckers. Try with one stick.
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Jan 27, 2024 17:31
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UPDATE: So a week ago, I took the computer in to the shop, and had them take a look at it. They called me on Monday telling me the issue was with the motherboard. It had failed somehow, and that's why it was power cycling, and why it needed to be replaced. However, the motherboard (the Z97-A) is pretty old at this point, and they no longer carried any mobos from that generation, so there would be no way to salvage the RAM and CPU into a compatible board. The cheapest option they were able to provide was to replace it with a newer board with a i3 CPU (and I guess new RAM, unless DDR4 boards are backward-compatible with DDR3 RAM, which I assume they aren't), and the quote they gave me was around $520 (which include the service fee, which is $150, so roughly $370 for the new parts.) However, I had thought that if I was going to replace the parts, then maybe it would be a good opportunity to try out AMD parts, since I've wanted to see how the Ryzen CPUs performed. I asked, and the clerk told me that they only had the newest AMD parts (the parts from the Intel quote were DDR4, whereas all of their AMD stock was DDR5). Going with AMD parts (I forget the CPU he suggested, I think it was the Ryzen 5), it would have been around $732, again factoring in the repair fee, so around $580 for the parts. However, the clerk suggested going to Amazon to source the parts, as they had no problem installing parts provided to them. He also suggested trying the second-hand market (eBay or PC recycling places) to find a direct replacement for the board. I tried looking up the AMD parts on Amazon, and I found the Ryzen 5, a motherboard, and RAM for around $310 (I can't remember what board it was specifically, and I think I may have picked DDR4 RAM by mistake). However, I gave it some more thought, and I decided to give eBay a look to see if I could find a replacement board instead. Initially, I was looking at a Z97-A that was pre-owned, from a seller with a very high rating (like 97% positive feedback), but it would need to ship from China. I checked back later, though and was lucky to find a better deal: a board listed as 'New', that shipped from California, from a seller with 100% positive feedback. I ordered it one Tuesday and it arrived this morning, so I took it up to the shop. The clerk got it installed, got it to post, was able to load into Windows 10, and the drivers checked out. I got it back home and hooked up and it's working like it used to. I'll have to play around with it, maybe stress-test it, etc. to make sure if it's going to remain stable. If something else goes wrong with it, the shop has a 15-day period where they'll do additional repairs or services for no extra charge (they offered to update the BIOS, but I might be able to do it myself, and they said it wasn't super-necessary). From buying the replacement board from eBay and the cost of the repair, overall it cost about $330. We don't know why the old motherboard failed. The clerk said that when loading into Windows 10, it said it was finishing up an update, so he theorized that there was a that maybe the update caused some sort of power issue, and that was what caused the board to crap out (he noted it was rare for something like that to happen though, so it could have just been that the board gave out). He asked if I switched out all the power cables from the old power supply for the new one, which...I did not. However, they were both Corsair 850W PSUs, so the cables were compatible, but had I done a different brand, the cable difference might have caused more issues. I should note that the new mobo arrived in a box that was for a Gigabyte Aorus, so I realize that the motherboard is not "brand new", but we guessed that maybe that it hadn't really been used outside of the seller opening it up to test to see if it worked. Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jan 27, 2024 |
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Jan 27, 2024 22:47
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Bad news: I tried starting the computer up today, and it's back to power-cycling again. I don't know what happened. I restarted the computer to do an update yesterday, but it was because I had the 'Activate Windows' text down in the bottom-right. It restarted and the computer was working fine. I didn't leave it on overnight. Maybe there's something wrong with the outlet in the powerstrip I plugged it into? Could something have happened to affect the new motherboard?
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Jan 29, 2024 01:25
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Max Wilco posted:I don't know what happened. I restarted the computer to do an update yesterday, but it was because I had the 'Activate Windows' text down in the bottom-right. It restarted and the computer was working fine. I didn't leave it on overnight. With an older machine it could be any piece of hardware that's causing an issue. The big problem would be if one piece of hardware was slowly damaging other components. Max Wilco posted:Maybe there's something wrong with the outlet in the powerstrip I plugged it into? Could something have happened to affect the new motherboard? It's possible but not too common. You could try another power strip/surge protector.
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Jan 29, 2024 06:28
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Since the computer is still under service warranty, I took it back up to the shop and the clerk plugged it in to see what the issue was. Bizarrely, the computer started up fine on the first attempt. On the second attempt, though, it started power-cycling, so he started the process of going through and removing parts and unplugging things to try and isolate the issue. The good news is that the replacement motherboard seems to be fine, and the issue appears to be the PSU, so he's going to swap it out with another Corsair RM850, and I can send the old one back to Amazon once it's done (assuming there aren't any other issues with the computer). Planning to pick it up tomorrow, but I might have to wait until Saturday depending on how things go.Zogo posted:It's possible but not too common. You could try another power strip/surge protector. The clerk told me that power strip only have a lifespan of about five years or so. The one I had the computer connected to had a bunch of other devices plugged in, so that might have been what caused the issue. I'm planning on buying some new power strips, and trying to spread the plugs out so I don't have eight different devices plugged into the same strip.
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Jan 30, 2024 00:00
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So, thanks to you, they replaced an old motherboard with another old motherboard that either has the same issues or it's still bad ram / cpu / PSU. Take it back for warranty and have them work more on it. Do you have the original board? It's old enough it may just need new capacitors. This is super easy to test for if they have spare parts. Expect it to take a few days, else they're not really testing well. The clerk was 100% right on everything (power strip thing is odd but it's not a bad idea. PSU is more likely but it gets you paying attention to your outlets at least). Computers love sipping and then immediately guzzling power. They sound like they know what they're doing. Especially by not mentioning the refurb board. That means they're smart! If I were them I would want to know a jobs not done and a pc is still rebooting. They should have a refund policy if they can't fix. down1nit fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Feb 3, 2024 |
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Feb 3, 2024 22:21
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So Monday, I took the computer back into the shop, since it was still under the 15 day service warranty. The clerk plugged it in, and surprisingly, it booted up to the Windows desktop just fine. I thought maybe I had some sort of weird fluke, but when he tried turning it on again, it went back to power-cycling. From there he started removing components to try and narrow down what the problem might be, and eventually he figured out it probably had something to do with the power supply, thinking that maybe the PSU I bought from Amazon (the Corsair RM850x) was faulty. They had the same PSU in store, so I left it there so he could put in a new one and I could pick it up the next day. When I got home from work, I gave him a call because I hadn't heard back yet, and he said that he had tried a few different PSUs (including a CoolerMaster 850W), but it was still power-cycling and he couldn't figure out what the issue was. I told him that there was no rush (he said had been busy both after I left Monday afternoon and Tuesday morning), and that I probably wouldn't be in until Saturday (today) to check in again. A couple hours later, he gives me a call, telling me he got it figured out. The issue was that he was always able to get it running using the testing PSU he had behind the counter, but the PSUs he installed weren't working. It turns out that the issue was that all the PSU we were using were modular, and the testing PSU was a non-modular PSU. Apparently, there's a difference between modular and non-modular PSUs in how the power is regulated via the pin or cables (I forget exactly what it was). He said it wasn't something he's ever run into before, and he only found a single post or two talking about the issue. He installed a EVGA 750W PSU, as they don't stock any 850W non-modular PSUs. What I realized when he told me this is that the original PSU that was in the computer was a Corsair CX850M, which is non-modular. I took it out and replaced it with the RM850x, which was modular. I could have asked him to install the old CX850M in, but that would have meant having him rewire the whole computer again, and he had tried at least three different PSU trying to figure out the problem (which means those PSU would have to be sent back to the vendor), so I didn't feel right doing that. However, he said the 750W manages fine, as he was able to stress-test it, running the CPU ( i7 4790K) and GPU (EVGA GTX 1070) under full load for a half-hour, and there were no issues. This is not to say that the old mobo was not the issue, as he said that he tried testing the old mobo with another CPU, and it would not work, so it had failed. A new board was necessary. I'm guessing there's just something with the Z-97A that doesn't play well with modular PSUs, based on what happened. It is a pretty old board (from 2014) and the RM850x is listed as being from 2021, so...  .The upside is that the 750W PSU was much cheaper ($88 after tax), and I've already got the RM850x in the process of being returned to Amazon (so I'll get around $150 back in credit). I've also bought a new power strip to plug the computer into (though given how I have things set up, I might switch it out for one with more outlets). The computer's hooked up and running right now, thought I just have it sitting on the desktop. I'll have to load up RDR2 or Skyrim or something to see how it fares. I'll leave this thread open for a few days in the event (god forbid) that a new problem crops up, but I'm praying that I won't have to do anymore it. I have a minor problem with the other computer I'm using, but I think I have it figured out, and if not, that'll be its own thread. down1nit posted:So, thanks to you, they replaced an old motherboard with another old motherboard that either has the same issues or it's still bad ram / cpu / PSU. Take it back for warranty and have them work more on it. Do you have the original board? It's old enough it may just need new capacitors. This is super easy to test for if they have spare parts. Expect it to take a few days, else they're not really testing well. At first he thought maybe it was the CMOS battery on the replacement board, which may have been an issue. The good news was that I brought the old board along, and one of the things that I did when trying to fix it myself was replace the CMOS battery with a new one, so we took that new battery from the old board and put in the new one (that wasn't the solution, but it was probably good that we did that). The funny thing is that I had the computer built at that shop. Last year was when I had thought about getting a new PC, and so I went in to ask for some input. When I shared it over in the PC building thread, I was told, 'Christ, don't ever go back to that place, they're full of poo poo', so I ended up buying a new PC through Origin. There might have been different people working there at the time, though. When I brought up the old CX850M when I went to pick it up today, he said he would have been willing to switch it out, even though his boss wouldn't have been happy with it. I had thought to at least bring it in to test it and see if it was functioning, but I forgot.
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Feb 3, 2024 23:38
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I missed where it went from power cycling to fully dead. I saw you mentioned it kinda, when he was doing windows stuff. drat, because this really still seemed like caps, RAM, or CPU So now the old board does not power on at all? It's not just "trying" over and over again? And let's be suuuuuper clear: is the machine powering off and then powering itself on again? Or is it powering off and then youre pushing the button each time? They mean drastically different things and I think I was misreading stuff sorry There are always varying levels of what a tech can know. He knows a LOT but there were some noob things he did and I suspect he's not super passionate about it or it's a poo poo job who knows. There are a lot of basic things you do when a board is resetting and who knows if they did any of them. Also... the battery has zero effect on the power on cycle. Unless it's over voltage, the cmos will simply be rewritten. The bios rom itself is suspect even, Intel me could be hosed. Did anyone pull out a multimeter to test poo poo live? We're there microscopes and soldering tools? Any data recovery going on? If so, it's probably a good shop and troubleshooting this is probably just a thing he's not the best at, but quite good overall I'd say. Goons are so dismissive of other peoples brains. I think it's a good clerk if not a great shop. He's got the right idea though I wish he had more experience. If there were no advanced tools there though look elsewhere next time.
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Feb 4, 2024 04:00
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down1nit posted:I missed where it went from power cycling to fully dead. I saw you mentioned it kinda, when he was doing windows stuff. drat, because this really still seemed like caps, RAM, or CPU I don't think the computer was every fully dead at any point. The power-cycling was where a couple of components would light up and the fans would start spinning for a second, but then lose power, only to try again and fail until I shut the power off to the PSU. The clerk told me that the old board had failed and that was the reason for the power-cycling. Keep in mind when the power-cycling first started, I still had the old PSU in it, so the theory was that, if there was indeed a problem with the power strip, it affected the PSU and then caused damage to mobo because of power regulation/voltage issues. I wasn't privy to what steps he took in diagnosing the old board; I imagine he had a multi-meter, but I don't think he had access to a microscope or soldering tools (or he did, I didn't see them). He just said that he tested the board with another CPU, and couldn't get anything out it, and I think that might have just been trying to see if the issue lay with the board or the CPU. It could be that the old board is salvageable, but I'm not sure how I would go about finding a way to have it fully diagnosed. Regarding the CMOS, the reason he suspected it when I brought it in after the replacement board was installed was because he thought maybe it had reset between when I reported it was power-cycling again, and when it booted up fine when he tested it. He said that CMOS battery causing power issues were rare, so I think he was just trying to rule it out. There were a lot things he went over, so I don't recall exactly what it was he said regarding that. I'd have to go back and re-read what I posted in the PC building thread, but some of what I was told might have been BS, but some it might have also been things that I just misunderstood and miscommunicated in the post. Since I was talking about buying a computer then, they might have been trying to upsell me on parts (I vaguely remember someone at the shop telling me that storage drives took up a lot of power, but the thread saying they use very little). The clerk was incredibly polite and very helpful, but he's the only employee, aside from the boss/owner (who I think was there the day I went in asking about buying a new computer, so maybe that's why I was maybe fed a line, whereas when he was alone, the clerk was upfront about everything). He said that the shop used to have a lot more employees several years ago, and that there was a point a couple years back where the shop was in the red for about five months before they started making a profit again. When talking about buying parts from Amazon, he said that one of the issues they had was that the majority of their vendors had gone out of business because they could not compete with Amazon's prices. It could be that I have to go somewhere else because they might not last a whole lot longer.
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Feb 4, 2024 05:02
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There is a minor problem that's cropped up, which I found when I initially got the computer back, and I think is a result of replacing the motherboard. My installation of Windows 10 is listed as being activated.I get the 'Activate Windows' watermark down in the lower-right of the screen. The issue is that the computer originally had Windows 7 on it, later upgraded to Windows 10, and I recall reading that Windows 7 keys can no longer be used to activate Windows 10, so I guess I'll have to try and buy a Windows 10 key. I tried logging into my Microsoft account to activate it, but since I never technically associated the Windows 7/10 install with my Microsoft account, there's no option to verify it.
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Feb 4, 2024 05:55
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10 Home or Pro keys are $15 in SA mart. Spinning media storage takes quite an impressive amount of power when it's spinning up in fact, but yeah it's a trickle by comparison during normal operation. Yeah it's an upsell. Good thing to be up sold on at least! The business is tough but poo poo is allllllllllways breaking. There are shops that do fine with less, but having access and knowledge of electronics would have saved you a LOT of time and money. If a board is looping, it's trying but hitting a wall, you remove the wall when you repair the board. Either by replacing the capacitors (my guess) or the ram sockets/ram (my first guess). Or look for bends in traces near clamps. Electronics fail completely, not "kinda" unless there are physical issues like caps/bad memory pathway
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Feb 4, 2024 16:19
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And, as I feared, despite the new PSU and plugging the computer into a brand new power strip, it has gone back to power-cycling again.  I don't know what happened this time. When I got it home yesterday, I shut the computer down to test if it would boot up again, and it did. I shut it down late last night, but when I tried it again five minutes ago, it's back to doing the exact same thing. down1nit posted:10 Home or Pro keys are $15 in SA mart. I'll give SAMart a look to get a key if I can get it running again. The computer's still under service warranty at the current shop. I don't know how I'd go about figuring out whether or not another shop was better equipped. I just can't figure out why this has happened again, unless there's some weird anomaly with the wiring in the house that only affects the computer, and none of the other devices on the power strip (a brand-new power strip). I'm thinking I should just call it a wash and look into building a new computer to use the drives in. Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Feb 4, 2024 |
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Feb 4, 2024 18:28
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Selling the old stuff is a great idea like he suggested. Ebay is fine. Bonus if they take care of it, it's easy as hell to track and send payouts to customers, they can make a profit from it. A cheap am4+ board and CPU should be fine, you just have to wait longer for them to be shipped in. The AM5 they have in store are also obviously great so that's up to you. To save money, the usual recommendation is a 5600 or 5600x with an asrock or asus board. B550 or B450. To splurge a bit, 7600x/7700x + B650. To find if a shop is well equipped ask them if they would recap a board, and if they have a standard fee or hourly, tell them you have your own caps or see if they have recommendations. Note that my recommendation for this is to run screaming from this system and get amd, it's just fantastic value used
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Feb 4, 2024 19:33
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Okay, so this is starting to really to bewilder me. When the computer started power-cycling earlier, I immediately took it upstairs and plugged it into another power-strip, and it did the same thing. However, after leaving it unplugged for a while, I decide to try it again (on the same alternate power strip) and it turns on!  So right now is seems like the computer starts power-cycling when I leave off, but plugged in overnight. However, if I unplug it, and leave it alone for a while, then plug it in again, it'll be able to boot up just fine. So it's still some kind of power regulation issue, but once the computer is unplugged it discharges (?), and can boot up. What I can't figure out is why that would happen. Could it be that I still have it on a power-strip that's sharing other things plugged into it? Could the display be the issue? I have it connected to the GPU via HDMI, and the display is a Samsung TV (the Samsung LN37A550 37" 1080p LCD TV). I'm also using a splitter to toggle between the HDMI on the computer and some other devices (PS5, Nintendo Switch, etc.) which are plugged into the same power-strip. However, none of those devices have had any power issues. down1nit posted:Selling the old stuff is a great idea like he suggested. Ebay is fine. Bonus if they take care of it, it's easy as hell to track and send payouts to customers, they can make a profit from it. Given what I just found, I might be able to make the computer work for a while, but that's probably a good course of action. Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Feb 4, 2024 |
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Feb 4, 2024 21:02
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The capacitors on the used board are just as old as the ones on your original board. Just putting that out there. Also the other things I keep saying, ram, traces, cpu, bios me region, uhhhhh PSU cables can have bad crimps..... I forget what else, it's a big ol thread
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Feb 4, 2024 22:11
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Oh btw I keep mentioning caps because inconsistent power-on behavior is sometimes/often because a power supply *on the motherboard itself* is failing to come up or stabilize in time, so the PCH or chipset tries again.
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Feb 4, 2024 22:31
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Max Wilco posted:Could it be that I still have it on a power-strip that's sharing other things plugged into it? Could the display be the issue? I have it connected to the GPU via HDMI, and the display is a Samsung TV (the Samsung LN37A550 37" 1080p LCD TV). I'm also using a splitter to toggle between the HDMI on the computer and some other devices (PS5, Nintendo Switch, etc.) which are plugged into the same power-strip. However, none of those devices have had any power issues. I doubt it's those things.
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Feb 5, 2024 06:39
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So after my last post, I had the thought to follow up on my theory and leave the computer unplugged when not in use. Every day after work this week (including today, about two minutes ago from when I started typing this post), I've plugged the computer in and it's been able to boot up fine. Doesn't seem to have any performance issues (I had Red Dead Redemption 2 lock up while playing it, but I think that was just with the game, and not anything to do with the computer). There was just something with leaving it plugged in for a long period that was causing the power cycling to occur.down1nit posted:The capacitors on the used board are just as old as the ones on your original board. Just putting that out there. Also the other things I keep saying, ram, traces, cpu, bios me region, uhhhhh PSU cables can have bad crimps..... I forget what else, it's a big ol thread Yeah, and that makes me think my solution might not work forever, so I should probably look into backing up the files onto an external HDD. Apart from the power issues, the main SSD that hosts Windows 10 is pretty old. That said, Crystal Disk says it has a health of 86%, so it's still pretty good (I've had the computer since around 2015, but the total amount of power on hours for the main drive equals to about 5 years). I'll keep this thread open for a couple of days in case someone has something to add or suggest regarding the oddity with leaving the computer unplugged.
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Feb 9, 2024 23:05
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