Endrite posted:Why does everyone have such a huge boner for Miko becoming a Blackguard? Because that's probably been the plan from day one. I read through the entire archives this weekend, and I have to say that everything about her turn seemed forced. She didn't seem that bossy or preachy compared to Roy or V when she first showed up, yet everyone disliked her. It's like, I was SUPPOSED to hate her. Plus, when they finally had her snap, it felt kind of unnatural. Like Shojo'd leave his door open while talking loudly about all the illegal things he's done so far? I dunno, it kind of felt like the author had played this out in his mind again and again, to the point where to him it felt natural, so he didn't see how it didn't really work out that well in execution. Y'know?
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Mar 7, 2007 07:48
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I can't put into words how much the stain on that fat Erfworld slob's shirt annoys me. I'm pretty sure he's the most repugnant web-comic protagonist I've ever seen, and I've read all of Dominic Deegan.
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Mar 7, 2007 18:03
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Archyduke posted:I can't put into words how much the stain on that fat Erfworld slob's shirt annoys me. I'm pretty sure he's the most repugnant web-comic protagonist I've ever seen, and I've read all of Dominic Deegan. The difference is that he's supposed to be repugnant. Unfortunately, Erfworld fails to give us any reason to still want to read about this guy in lieu of any redeeming qualities or interesting characteristics.
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Mar 7, 2007 18:21
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Rincewind posted:The difference is that he's supposed to be repugnant. This is true... quote:Unfortunately, Erfworld fails to give us any reason to still want to read about this guy in lieu of any redeeming qualities or interesting characteristics. ...and so is this. For me, it's been coasting on the subversions of fantasy gaming comics, but if it doesn't develop something interesting to hang those subversions on, it's not going to go much further.
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Mar 7, 2007 18:37
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There's a new strip, you guys! http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0423.html I love Redcloak.
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Mar 8, 2007 05:53
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Battlestar Ferrinus posted:There's a new strip, you guys! http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0423.html The Order of the Stick: The Redcloak Appreciation Station
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Mar 8, 2007 07:34
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I game a lot. But I am increasingly more impressed with how creative Burlew is with OOTS, and the D&D world in general! I'm always impressed with players that can rule-bend, but I guess I'm just as impressed with a DM (I know, it doesn't quite count as a comic, but come on!) that can bend the rules just as impressively for his own purposes. And it's not just like he's fudging for the case of story--I'm talking about those cases where he'll invent whole new devices just because of how much it adds. Case-in-point: hurling elementals out of a catapult is amazing. Who thinks of these things?! Titanium Elementals?! Genius!!
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Mar 8, 2007 09:34
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If only I wasn't an incredibly cheap jackass, my avatar would now be Redcloak and my title He beseiged me with science.
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Mar 8, 2007 18:30
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the_steve posted:The Order of the Stick: The Redcloak Appreciation Station I've been hoping the comic that shows up when this hits 1000 posts, if it ever does, gives a reason to use another Nietzche title, myself... I'd buy that it's just some skeleton and not Xykon, 'cept skeletons aren't intelligent and able to speak. Doesn't rule out "Awaken Undead" spells or some skeleton-looking higher undead or 100 other crazy rear end explanations D&D enables, but I'm sayin'.
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Mar 8, 2007 22:34
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SuperKlaus posted:I've been hoping the comic that shows up when this hits 1000 posts, if it ever does, gives a reason to use another Nietzche title, myself... The necklace could be some illusion-inducing thingy.
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Mar 9, 2007 09:16
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LuchadoresDelNixon posted:I game a lot. But I am increasingly more impressed with how creative Burlew is with OOTS, and the D&D world in general! I think he's done science in D&D type jokes before. I can't remember where, but I could swear he's made reference to it, maybe when the bad guys fought the silver dragon? I dunno. Also, it kind of bugs me. As a joke, it's great, but it's also a deus ex machina. It reminds me of some kid asking to use to special munchkin homebrew rules so he can start his saiyan ninja with vorpal hand to hand attacks. Next up, we'll see katana elementals. Anyway, I just realized the epic level monsters are SRD so my prediction is that the monster hiding in the umbrella is an atropal (or similar epic monster) and the son of Scratch (or whatever the monster behind the gates is called).
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Mar 10, 2007 00:39
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OFF THE SLIPPY SLIDE. Katana elementals? That is so ridiculous I can't even laugh at you.
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Mar 10, 2007 00:47
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Psion posted:OFF THE SLIPPY SLIDE. Katana elementals? That is so ridiculous I can't even laugh at you. Katana elementals would be the most hardcore loving thing ever 
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Mar 10, 2007 00:49
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the_steve posted:Katana elementals would be the most hardcore loving thing ever Maybe, but the OOTS joke was that there are, you know, actual elements on the periodic table, and making fun of fire not being in any way an element. Nothing he hasn't done many times before, taking a gag off D&D rules. Someone coming in here crying about deus ex machinas and katana elementals is just bloody ridiculous. It's not even a deus ex machina, either.  (We all know that broadsword elementals would kick the crap out of your katana elementals.  )
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Mar 10, 2007 00:53
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Psion posted:Maybe, but the OOTS joke was that there are, you know, actual elements on the periodic table, and making fun of fire not being in any way an element. Nothing he hasn't done many times before, taking a gag off D&D rules. Someone coming in here crying about deus ex machinas and katana elementals is just bloody ridiculous. quote:The phrase has been extended to refer to any resolution to a story which does not pay due regard to the story's internal logic and is so unlikely that it challenges suspension of disbelief. D&D is an amalgam of fantasy literature, both from history and from modern writers like Jack Vance. The four elements come from classical Greece. Throwing in modern science breaks my suspension of disbelief that OOTS is a world that follows the rules of D&D. It's lazy to sacrifice the internal logic of the story for a single joke. Oh and katana elementals were a joke. I thought putting it in there would make it obvious I wasn't being very serious with my observation.
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Mar 10, 2007 01:03
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Psion posted:Maybe, but the OOTS joke was that there are, you know, actual elements on the periodic table, and making fun of fire not being in any way an element. None of the classic elements are actually elements. You've got air (mixture), water (compound), earth (mixture again) and fire (reaction). Also, if you go by the Turner hypothesis, you have heart (internal organ) which isn't an element at all.
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Mar 10, 2007 01:29
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Fuego Fish posted:Also, if you go by the Turner hypothesis, you have heart (internal organ) which isn't an element at all. Sure, you talk all big here, but let's see you tell that to the South American kid and his monkey. Go on, break his heart with your science. He'll cry.
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Mar 10, 2007 01:48
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clockworkjoe posted:D&D is an amalgam of fantasy literature, both from history and from modern writers like Jack Vance. The four elements come from classical Greece. Throwing in modern science breaks my suspension of disbelief that OOTS is a world that follows the rules of D&D. It's lazy to sacrifice the internal logic of the story for a single joke. Following the rules of D&D shouldn't be part of the suspension of disbelief. Following any specific set of rules isn't important, in a story, but consistently following the rules you set out is. OOTS has never followed the D&D rules precisely; why should it start now?
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Mar 10, 2007 02:55
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Fuego Fish posted:None of the classic elements are actually elements. You've got air (mixture), water (compound), earth (mixture again) and fire (reaction). Also, if you go by the Turner hypothesis, you have heart (internal organ) which isn't an element at all.
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Mar 10, 2007 03:08
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Ununnilium posted:Following the rules of D&D shouldn't be part of the suspension of disbelief. Following any specific set of rules isn't important, in a story, but consistently following the rules you set out is. OOTS has never followed the D&D rules precisely; why should it start now? Don't forget Rule 0, i.e. basically letting the DM to fudge things to make sure the game is fun. But this is beyond a simple rules/setting fudge, it's bringing in something that has no place in D&D type fantasy. Again, it's not a big problem, but I hope this doesn't happen on a regular basis. OOTS would jump the shark if the characters started crafting depleted uranium arrows or magnesium tipped bolts.
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Mar 10, 2007 03:16
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New strip is up http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0424.html Looks like vaarsuvius thinks like Clockworkjoe
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Mar 10, 2007 04:46
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Great strip ruined by a horrible pun at the end. Nice to see 'Suv kick rear end though.
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Mar 10, 2007 05:47
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SuperKlaus posted:Sure, you talk all big here, but let's see you tell that to the South American kid and his monkey. Go on, break his heart with your science. He'll cry. Or he'll mind-control you into saying that Heart is superior, then turn the other four into his mindslaves and turn himself into the new god-king of this pathetic world. We owe a great deal to the fact Ma-Ti was pure of heart and/or a moron.
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Mar 10, 2007 06:12
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clockworkjoe posted:Don't forget Rule 0, i.e. basically letting the DM to fudge things to make sure the game is fun. I can't agree with that. Even fantasy universes have some understanding of basic elements. Coinage is copper, silver, gold, and platinum. Iron and copper are used as terms for weapon and armor quality. The less obvious elements show up all the time in traps (I knew a GM who loved mercury - you had to be incredibly careful whenever you found a "room with a silver floor" because it could turn out to be a "room with a ten-foot-deep pit filled with mercury" instead.) Yes, the Greek elements are the classic elements. But we've already had the Chinese zodiac symbols show up - it's not a strictly Greek universe. Like most fantasy universes it uses aspects of many mythologies, and like most RPGs it uses all of that plus science when applicable. We're not going to see it suddenly turn into a steampunk adventure (I mean unless it's brought in as a fantasy cliche, so maybe we will) but I honestly don't see how a titanium elemental is out-of-place in the least. If anything, "let's make a universe that's the union of all myths and facts" is exactly what I'd expect.
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Mar 10, 2007 06:37
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clockworkjoe posted:But this is beyond a simple rules/setting fudge, it's bringing in something that has no place in D&D type fantasy. Again, it's not a big problem, but I hope this doesn't happen on a regular basis. I understand this may just be the one thing that stood out for you, but they've already got a Tivo hooked up to a crystal ball, and a bard who flat out says he's imitating Vin Diesel, and they did that Final Fantasy airship thing that I didn't get without reading the boards because I've never played any of the games... Well, I thought it was funny v  vAnyway, I'm not sure if I'm gay or straight for Vaarsuvius, but I'm certainly FOR Vaarsuvius. Bad puns included.
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Mar 10, 2007 22:50
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Tag Plastic posted:I understand this may just be the one thing that stood out for you, but they've already got a Tivo hooked up to a crystal ball, and a bard who flat out says he's imitating Vin Diesel, and they did that Final Fantasy airship thing that I didn't get without reading the boards because I've never played any of the games... Myself? I can't take expansive, well-established dwarven empires. If they're not living in dingy mineshafts and being run out of their ancestral homes by 1HD humanoids then they're not dwarves as far as I'm concerned.
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Mar 10, 2007 23:25
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NorgLyle posted:Myself? I can't take expansive, well-established dwarven empires. If they're not living in dingy mineshafts and being run out of their ancestral homes by 1HD humanoids then they're not dwarves as far as I'm concerned. Dwarven ghettos you mean? It's not just gamers and gaming, people everywhere have their own preconceived notions about what is "too far" or what "doesn't fit". I once had someone get rather frustrated because I was talking about a fantasy setting with no magic. Apparently it has to have magic, otherwise it's science fiction or something. Also no fantasy setting can have spaceships or space travel, regardless of how it's done. Because all science fiction has spaceships and by this point I just kind of tuned him out. I don't really have a switch, but I do have a vast loathing for elves, which extends to dwarves and anything that basically just photocopies Tolkein and calls it "originality". Which is why I don't play D&D.
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Mar 10, 2007 23:51
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why aren't there stats for titanium elementals, would it be so hard to add some OGL titanium elementals but no, no new elementals for me
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Mar 11, 2007 00:01
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ZorbaTHut posted:I can't agree with that. Even fantasy universes have some understanding of basic elements. Coinage is copper, silver, gold, and platinum. Iron and copper are used as terms for weapon and armor quality. The less obvious elements show up all the time in traps (I knew a GM who loved mercury - you had to be incredibly careful whenever you found a "room with a silver floor" because it could turn out to be a "room with a ten-foot-deep pit filled with mercury" instead.) When the four element theory was believed in, the various metals were viewed as simply being different forms of the element of earth. Just as modern chemistry fails to draw distinctions between the gaseous, liquid and solid forms of the various elements despite the fact that they look and act so differently, people from the antiquity to the middle ages simply lumped all metals into a single element. clockworkjoe posted:Oh and katana elementals were a joke. I thought putting it in there would make it obvious I wasn't being very serious with my observation. Katana elementals do seem like an impossibility. Katana golems on the other hand...
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Mar 11, 2007 00:05
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Fuego Fish posted:I don't really have a switch, but I do have a vast loathing for elves, which extends to dwarves and anything that basically just photocopies Tolkein and calls it "originality". Which is why I don't play D&D. Hating elves is a great reason to play D&D! One of my favorite characters was a Human supremest who was trying to gain support for his crusade to ''take back the forests''. The plan was to drive them into the seas like nature intended.
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Mar 11, 2007 00:20
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Factor_VIII posted:Katana elementals do seem like an impossibility. Katana golems on the other hand... Have you forgot about the quasi-elemental plane of katana, situated between the demi-elemental plane of angst and demi-ielemental plane of trenchcoats?
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Mar 11, 2007 01:36
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CoolCab posted:Hating elves is a great reason to play D&D! One of my favorite characters was a Human supremest who was trying to gain support for his crusade to ''take back the forests''. The plan was to drive them into the seas like nature intended. It's more complicated than a simple dislike. Elves signify everything that's wrong with fantasy.
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Mar 11, 2007 01:55
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That all depends on if the Elves are prancing ponces, or more along the mythological vein.
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Mar 11, 2007 02:18
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Fuego Fish posted:It's more complicated than a simple dislike. Elves signify everything that's wrong with fantasy.
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Mar 11, 2007 02:24
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I always loved the Terry Pratchett take on Elves. They are a beautiful people, and their songs are magnificent, but have you ever actually listened to those old stories? Elves is not good people. Elves is arbitrary people who will kill you for the sake of entertainment. They might also give you some awesome poo poo, but the primary thing to remember when dealing with them is that they are not the aloof, ethereal creatures of Lord of the Rings. They are the down-and-dirty, violent, artistic, and not-above-a-little-creative-barbarism creatures of the Silmarillion who will not pause to even think about the repurcussions of their actions, and have both the balls and the power to get away with it.
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Mar 11, 2007 02:48
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clockworkjoe posted:Have you forgot about the quasi-elemental plane of katana, situated between the demi-elemental plane of angst and demi-ielemental plane of trenchcoats? I own a trenchcoat and several katanas  None of them are actually very nice, but I do want to start a collection. Also, so help me, I am going to create a Katana Elemental. I will work on it during the week while I'm out of town.
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Mar 11, 2007 04:16
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NorgLyle posted:Myself? I can't take expansive, well-established dwarven empires. If they're not living in dingy mineshafts and being run out of their ancestral homes by 1HD humanoids then they're not dwarves as far as I'm concerned. This post seems custom tailored for cross-forum evangelising. I hope nobody minds. It's about dwarves. Dwarf Fortress. If the civilisation seems too successful, you can do something about it!
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Mar 11, 2007 05:01
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Talkie Toaster posted:And elf-hate is equally as prevalent and annoying. Elves can be well-written and interesting (there's plenty of threads to take, like arrogant bastards/dying race/secretive mystics) and not "zOMG Legolas was like soooooo awesome I wanna surf onna shield" or "People who are like humans, but better". Fantasy (more specifically, high fantasy) is a pretty great genre, but it's just got too much of the "absolutely mythical brand of medieval life with magic and generic stock races" sort. Most of the best fantasy nowadays is modern fantasy. High fantasy is just too tra-la-la woodland faggotry. As I've said before: if George Lucas was the Tolkein of sci-fi, every Goddamn film and book would have wookies and Jedi in it. Doesn't particularly matter how you change things around, the vast majority still try and just copy what's gone before them. Hell, even if you stick with preconceived mythological/legendary spirits, there's like a billion and one things out there which aren't elves. Although, yeah, I'm mostly referring the the "Mary Sue species" elves here. Pratchett's elves and the other very un-Tolkein types are all right.
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Mar 11, 2007 05:27
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You know this is something I've wondered watching the Achewood threads bouncing around the subforum - are webcomic threads voted gold for the quality of discussion within or just because everyones likes the comic so darn much? e: And because there's nothing I like more than talking about elves Talkie Toaster posted: And elf-hate is equally as prevalent and annoying. Elves can be well-written and interesting (there's plenty of threads to take, like arrogant bastards/dying race/secretive mystics) and not "zOMG Legolas was like soooooo awesome I wanna surf onna shield" or "People who are like humans, but better". The threads you mention are, uh, found together in pretty much every fantasy elf race. They're very far from mutually exclusive and also pretty far from interesting thanks to gross overuse. Tolkien's elves are an arrogant 'n' secretive dying race of mystics. SuperKlaus fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Mar 11, 2007 |
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Mar 11, 2007 05:37
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SuperKlaus posted:The threads you mention are, uh, found together in pretty much every fantasy elf race. They're very far from mutually exclusive and also pretty far from interesting thanks to gross overuse. Tolkien's elves are an arrogant 'n' secretive dying race of mystics. I believe that's exactly the point. Instead of taking the whole thing, you take one part and focus on it.
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Mar 11, 2007 06:07
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