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sakesniper posted:So why is that decoy such a big puss? I didn't think undead had the capacity to be like that. He is an evil outsider, not undead.  And I think Redcloak did say he put too much fear and not enough flame into him, or something.
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May 9, 2007 19:54
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Holy crap did I pick a good time to start reading this comic.
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May 9, 2007 22:00
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RentACop posted:Holy crap did I pick a good time to start reading this comic. If you haven't already, read the archives. They're excellent, and you really can't understand the comic without having done so.
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May 9, 2007 22:19
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Nomenklatura posted:That's why. Yes. Exactly. See, I'm looking at all of this strip from a DM's perspective. I love running games, and it's really great when your PCs manage to surprise you with something cool. I almost always let them do stuff that they've put a lot of thought into and will be cool, even if it's not really rules-correct.
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May 10, 2007 00:23
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I love Belkar's thought process almost as much as Xykon's. He doesn't have any sense of self preservation- he just wants to slaughter people while looking as bad rear end as possible. Hotwire- you rock for posting the strip. The site's getting hammered as always.
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May 10, 2007 02:42
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Kahrytes posted:No. See. He didn't. quote:Or be REALLY boring. "Horrid wilting! Meteor swarm! Evard's Black Tentacles and ANOTHER meteor swarm!" quote:Aw, gently caress it. You're convinced you're right and I'm convinced you're a gently caress. I hope Xykon starts using the rubber ball trick a lot, to piss you off. quote:Hey guys! Order of the Stick is a webcomic!
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May 10, 2007 03:36
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Kahrytes posted:Yes. Exactly. See, I'm looking at all of this strip from a DM's perspective. I love running games, and it's really great when your PCs manage to surprise you with something cool. I almost always let them do stuff that they've put a lot of thought into and will be cool, even if it's not really rules-correct. I think that's the Moment of Truth for DMs. You come up with a great situation, you get the players into it, and the players pull an awesome and yet completely unexpected metaphorical rabbit out of their hats which utterly annihilates every bit of planning you've done in the last month. Do you let them have it, or do you overrule them? Moment of Truth.
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May 10, 2007 03:38
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Robot Bastard posted:I'm interested that you think "a bunch of people fighting each other" is harder to draw than "a bunch of people fighting one guy". Is there less fighting in the first situation than there is in the second? Dude, get off this. Also,  for the amazon links.
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May 10, 2007 03:46
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It was a webcomic first  I want a big, more-detailed version of the first panel in the comic for a poster too.
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May 10, 2007 03:47
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ZorbaTHut posted:I think that's the Moment of Truth for DMs. You come up with a great situation, you get the players into it, and the players pull an awesome and yet completely unexpected metaphorical rabbit out of their hats which utterly annihilates every bit of planning you've done in the last month. I'm pretty good at knowing the loopholes possible beforehand. Sometimes I get surprised with their ingenuity, but it's not too common that they can manage to do stuff that'll completely obliterate a storyline I've been doing for a while. However, if they do, then I'll give it to them in part. Usually while saying "I loving hate you guys" with a huge grin on my face. And then I'll use their loophole to gently caress them over. So they just found a way to utterly obliterate the big bad guy that was gonna steamroll the armies of Good? Ok. Now the puppetmaster behind the BBEG sees you lot as a big threat. Have fun with your invisible stalkers and assassins after you every step of the way. Robot Bastard posted:I'm interested that you think "a bunch of people fighting each other" is harder to draw than "a bunch of people fighting one guy". Is there less fighting in the first situation than there is in the second? YES The main focus of the strip with Xykon loving up the paladins with the ball was Xykon, not how each individual person died. If you had to draw Xykon going through each individual person, even with spells, there's going to be a LOT of interrupted spells, leading to a lot of melee, leading to a long, long fight with ONE SPELLCASTER versus a huge swarm of people nearly made to fight him, just not powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with him by himself. This is something you learn when you're a DM. When you have ONE monster facing thirty PCs, the monster's gonna get swarmed and won't be able to use a lot of its cool stuff. same guy posted:See, at least that fits with what we've seen so far. Yes, it's contemptuous, but at least it isn't "lawlz check out this loophole!" It's also boring. Even if Xykon just flew overhead, dropping Meteor Swarms, it would be intensely boring, even if he made witty oneliners while doing it. This way, he got to be cocky, got to advance his character some with revealing that he's not a half-retarded skull-guy, and I got a laugh. And that's a real sweet ice burn there with your links to the compilations of the webcomic. So by that logic, Achewood, Megatokyo, and Sluggy Freelance aren't webcomics? So they're normal comics? Cool. I'm gonna go to my comic store and buy me the newest issue of Achewood! I can't wait to see what happens now. I love OotS.
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May 10, 2007 04:11
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I just want to say that I'm really glad someone in this thread manages to put the strip up on waffleimages every time it's up. It's getting to the point where it's loving impossible to load the site for hours and hours after a new strip is up, and I'm not sure I'd be able to continue reading without the ones in here.
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May 10, 2007 04:12
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Robot Bastard posted:See, at least that fits with what we've seen so far. Yes, it's contemptuous, but at least it isn't "lawlz check out this loophole!" Haha, what? It'd be "contemptuous" for one character to kill some others in a webcomic? Who or what is it contemptuous of? Kahrytes posted:However, if they do, then I'll give it to them in part. Usually while saying "I loving hate you guys" with a huge grin on my face. This is the correct answer. However, it totally sucks to then go "Yeah well now the big bad guy sees you as a threat; you all die in your sleep from stealth assassins." I think the gentlemanly response is to make your players aware that if they try to do that repeatedly, you're just going to make the bad guys start using the same exploit against them.
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May 10, 2007 04:16
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Kahrytes posted:So by that logic, Achewood, Megatokyo, and Sluggy Freelance aren't webcomics? So they're normal comics? You can almost do that with Megatokyo. They had a display of books for it in a nearby Borders a while back.
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May 10, 2007 04:18
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ZorbaTHut posted:I think that's the Moment of Truth for DMs. You come up with a great situation, you get the players into it, and the players pull an awesome and yet completely unexpected metaphorical rabbit out of their hats which utterly annihilates every bit of planning you've done in the last month. Either way, I don't really see rules stuff as all that clever, especially since they could have gotten it off the internet. Sure, a hovertank built out of an armoured carriage, a flying carpet, a portable hole and a decanter of endless water sounds awesome, but in practice it's the rare exception to the general rule of rules-lawyering, powergaming and outright cheating that many people engage in when they attempt to exploit the system. Also you tend to get kinda 'over' exploits after you've played a game like Champions in wich, were the players free to do whatever they want with the rules, they could easily create characters that could destroy the entire planet and turn it's population into an army of loyal zombies. Ferrinus posted:However, it totally sucks to then go "Yeah well now the big bad guy sees you as a threat; you all die in your sleep from stealth assassins." I think the gentlemanly response is to make your players aware that if they try to do that repeatedly, you're just going to make the bad guys start using the same exploit against them.
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May 10, 2007 05:04
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Efreet saiid posted:Or you could just say "do not uset this exploit again" because you're the GM and that's your job, you don't have to negociate based on threats, you just tell them how it's going to be, and if they have a problem with that, the group can talk about it. Well, yeah, obviously. "You wouldn't want your enemies to do that, would you?" is a more or less shorthand explanation for why you think it would suck if the players kept using their previously-one-time gambit. It's meant as an attempt at persuasion, not a threat.
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May 10, 2007 06:16
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Loopholes and exploits in the rules are NOT fun, because they encourage rules lawyering and weapons of campaign destruction. The bouncy ball trick (which is clearly offensive) would break any campaign it was introduced into it. If V gets a few more levels, he'll be able to do it for all the big battles. Hobgoblin army? No problem! Anyway, loopholes all lead to the same road. And that road ends with Pun-Pun, Destroyer of Worlds.
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May 10, 2007 06:21
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quote:lots of complaining about rules/rules lawyering guys its a comic did you not get the memo generally I prefer fucked around with this message at 06:36 on May 10, 2007 |
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May 10, 2007 06:33
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I let players get away with interesting rules loop holes once. If they try it again I tell them the plot gods said no. One time is funny, if it happend all the time its retarded. Not a hard concept. I get the feeling some of you guys complaining are like players I played with that could NOT understand just becuase if you tweaked the rules something was allowed didn't mean you SHOULD do it.
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May 10, 2007 06:38
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Ferrinus posted:However, it totally sucks to then go "Yeah well now the big bad guy sees you as a threat; you all die in your sleep from stealth assassins." I think the gentlemanly response is to make your players aware that if they try to do that repeatedly, you're just going to make the bad guys start using the same exploit against them. Hey, hey, hey. Whoa. Hey now. Who said sleep? No, I'd have much more fun the next time the PCs went to get hammered in a bar. Party Dwarf/Fighter/whatever: "Let me buy you a drink, my... good..." Party Spellcaster: "Why is everyone in the bar suddenly looking at us?" Party Rogue: "And fingering knives?" Party Cleric: *Sigh. Start preparing Cure Moderate Wounds.*
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May 10, 2007 06:50
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Gally posted:I get the feeling some of you guys complaining are like players I played with that could NOT understand just becuase if you tweaked the rules something was allowed didn't mean you SHOULD do it.
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May 10, 2007 06:56
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Hey guys Belkar cut off that dudes head and is using it to slaughter hobgoblins you can't do that gently caress this gently caress this strip gently caress! Edit: Well, shitposting aside, I kind of like this one. Normally I'd really, really like it due to Belkar's badassery, but what I was really looking forward to was what's going on in the throneroom. So it was just "oh hey that's pretty cool I guess" in comparrison. Spaz mk. 2.0 fucked around with this message at 07:43 on May 10, 2007 |
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May 10, 2007 07:16
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WHAT THE gently caress WITH THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT ROY WAS CLINGING TO THE DRAGON BEING UNDER 15TH LEVEL HE SHOULD HAVE FAILED A CLIMB CHECK gently caress DIS COMIC
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May 10, 2007 07:25
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Kahrytes posted:Hey, hey, hey. Any adventuring party that doesn't end up lighting a tavern on fire to destroy the evidence is no adventuring party at all.
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May 10, 2007 07:25
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Endrite posted:Any adventuring party that doesn't end up lighting a tavern on fire to destroy the evidence is no adventuring party at all. Who says I won't beat them to lighting taverns on fire? Hell, in the last game I was DMing, an entire city was flooded with flaming evil liquor from a Rod of Wonder. That's what happens when you tell me to use my brain instead of the default rolling table. I would be having so much fun with a party as demented as the Order of the Stick. And the Order's about as goddamned big as my usual party makeup.
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May 10, 2007 07:32
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Maybe Trad games needs a thread called "Bitch about the application of D&D rules in OOTS" or something because jesus this thread is making me embarrased to be a nerd, chill out a bit guys. The site being hammered is getting very regularly, I wonder if he's going to be able to sort that out?
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May 10, 2007 08:20
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Jeet posted:Maybe Trad games needs a thread called "Bitch about the application of D&D rules in OOTS" or something because jesus this thread is making me embarrased to be a nerd, chill out a bit guys. There are remarkably few Trad Gamers in this thread, to the best of my knowledge. (Happy Elf doesn't count, he's been persona non grata for a long, long time. Also, I think his reputation proceeds him.)
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May 10, 2007 08:23
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Jeet posted:Maybe Trad games needs a thread called "Bitch about the application of D&D rules in OOTS" or something because jesus this thread is making me embarrased to be a nerd, chill out a bit guys.
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May 10, 2007 08:29
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Efreet saiid posted:Or you could just say "do not uset this exploit again" because you're the GM and that's your job, you don't have to negociate based on threats, you just tell them how it's going to be, and if they have a problem with that, the group can talk about it. The key words are "creative" and "awesome". If it's an exploit that's nothing but a numbers exploit, than shut it down. If it's creative and interesting, then let it go, unplug the bunghole, and exploit that creativity to make the campaign more fun. Kinda like what OOTS just did. Edit: Oh Please. Don't play the "I don't care, I dunno why all you people care so much" card. It's just unseemly. THAT is like the guy that never gets told when the next D&D night is, because his field of socially-maladjusted annoyance cripples any fun within forty yards. Nomenklatura fucked around with this message at 08:33 on May 10, 2007 |
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May 10, 2007 08:30
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I specifically said "again" for a reason. All i'm saying is that you don't kill the PC's with plot ninjas if they go overboard(such as repeating a trick like the ones mentioned), you talk to the players about it and reach a conclusion as to where you all want the game to be. BTW i'm an awesome GM and my games are endlessly creative and exciting just FYI. Nomenklatura posted:Edit: Oh Please. Don't play the "I don't care, I dunno why all you people care so much" card. It's just unseemly. quote:THAT is like the guy that never gets told when the next D&D night is, because his field of socially-maladjusted annoyance cripples any fun within forty yards. Efreet saiid fucked around with this message at 08:40 on May 10, 2007 |
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May 10, 2007 08:34
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Look, I love talking rules and setting plenty, the problem is that some of the discussions of the rules have really started to overshadow the discussions about the strip, which is the point of the thread. Now I don't mind explaining CR and Templates and little details to the Goons here who don't play and don't have the grasp of the rules when it becomes relevant, I don't even mind a small back and forth about it, but it's gotten to the point where we're writing term-papers on the rules rather than having a fun discussion about one of the most incredible narratives available on the internet. Let's try and find a happy medium, that's all I'm asking.
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May 10, 2007 08:56
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NutShellBill posted:There are remarkably few Trad Gamers in this thread, to the best of my knowledge. (Happy Elf doesn't count, he's been persona non grata for a long, long time. Also, I think his reputation proceeds him.) Yes, he's always had a pension for the dramatic.
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May 10, 2007 14:29
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rantmo posted:Look, I love talking rules and setting plenty, the problem is that some of the discussions of the rules have really started to overshadow the discussions about the strip, which is the point of the thread. Now I don't mind explaining CR and Templates and little details to the Goons here who don't play and don't have the grasp of the rules when it becomes relevant, I don't even mind a small back and forth about it, but it's gotten to the point where we're writing term-papers on the rules rather than having a fun discussion about one of the most incredible narratives available on the internet. Like I said before... Hey, Order of the Stick is a webcomic! Would ya look at that!
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May 10, 2007 14:43
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Nomenklatura posted:Not only funny, but ridiculously cool. Any DM that doesn't reward this sort of hilariously awesome creativity wouldn't be one I'd want running my campaign. That's why I liked the ball; it was one of those moments where the DM looks at the player who thought it up, cocks a brow, and says "son of a bitch, I never thought of that. Probably against the rules but what the hell, I'll allow it." One time I was faced with a trial of strength to be blessed by the god of fire. My dwarf was to face a lava golem, and all I had was armor, a mace, gems, and a magical gun. The gun's magic was explosive fire enchanted bullets and to not need recharging, as in a bullet appears in the chamber as soon as you fire it, and also powder. I was MEANT to shoot the ceiling and drop rocks onto the golem, or shoot out the floor and trap him, or shoot a hole in the wall that was leaking water (which I'd have known if I looked behind me). What I DID was throw my gun at it. So, due to the heat of the lava, the powder and bullets exploded. Then reappeared magically. Then exploded again. INFINITE TIMES IN A FEW SECONDS. The lava golem went down like a megaman X boss. My GM was like  and shook my hand for coming up with the most awesome possible solution that he hadn't even considered.
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May 10, 2007 15:07
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Ferrinus posted:Yes, he's always had a pension for the dramatic.
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May 10, 2007 20:41
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Strudel Man posted:Penchant. A pension for the dramatic would be something rather different. This, my darling, is a reference to a failed goon project. Kahrytes posted:Like I said before... What's your point? It's a discussion of a comic which is based heavily on D and D rules, if it causes a bit of debate that's a good thing.
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May 10, 2007 20:49
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TJO posted:What's your point? It's a discussion of a comic which is based heavily on D and D rules, if it causes a bit of debate that's a good thing.
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May 10, 2007 23:15
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Jeet posted:Maybe Trad games needs a thread called "Bitch about the application of D&D rules in OOTS" or something because jesus this thread is making me embarrased to be a nerd, chill out a bit guys.
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May 10, 2007 23:52
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Panty_HaX0r posted:I can understand why some people are getting pissy about it. One of the features of the comic is that it's so strongly structured around the rules of the game. When this becomes inconsistent I can see why people would have a hard time accepting it; but, it doesn't make sense for a author to hamstring himself that way when it doesn't lend itself to the storytelling be it in a tabletop game or a webcomic. It's worth bending the rules for the sake of a more exciting story. Yeah, but I don't think a rubber ball that basically neutralizes all living creatures is exciting or fun. I think it's stupid. Anyway, we have been talking about this too long. No one is going to change their mind.
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May 11, 2007 00:11
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Geez, did everyone bitch this much when Durkon used weather control in a ridiculous way? Anyway, did Erfworld already give up? It hasn't updated in like a week.
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May 11, 2007 01:08
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Wolfsheim posted:
quote:As far as Erfworld, I missed posting the klog page for Thursday on time, but it, too, is up now. I've been informed that whether there is any sort of update on Saturday is to-be-determined, seeing as how the artist, Jamie Noguchi, is getting married that day. Mazel tov, Jamie! Anyway, updates might be a little sporadic for a week therefore, with Rob possibly filling in with additional klogs if needed.
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