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Factor_VIII posted:The paladins that just died were all low level so it wouldn't really have made a difference. Those that were already dead are limited to the items they had with them when they died, so unless they found a ghost touch bludgeoning weapon, they're all out of luck. I was more wondering why they weren't carrying any bludgeoning weapons when they were still alive.us
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Jun 2, 2007 17:01
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greatn posted:I was more wondering why they weren't carrying any bludgeoning weapons when they were still alive.us When someone dies and becomes a ghost they can only carry over a couple items they had on them when they died. It looks like they chose their swords and armor.
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Jun 2, 2007 17:15
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Ferrinus posted:I'm pretty sure the only paladin that isn't in the throne room right now is Hinjo. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0413.html Hinjo sent the newbies to guard the city, although 'behind the wall' might mean they already got mastadowned when recloack stormed the wall. Efreet saiid fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Jun 3, 2007 |
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Jun 2, 2007 19:19
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Factor_VIII posted:Xykon has already killed both of them once before without even breaking a sweat, so I doubt that they'd be very effective a second time, especially now that Xykon has Redcloack's backing. wait, Ghost Dad wasn't killed by Xykon was he? didn't he just die on his own with unfinished business?
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Jun 2, 2007 20:20
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Sam Hall posted:wait, Ghost Dad wasn't killed by Xykon was he? didn't he just die on his own with unfinished business? The reason the Order of the Stick went after Xykon in the first place was because Roy wanted to avenge his father's death.
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Jun 4, 2007 11:48
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Factor_VIII posted:The reason the Order of the Stick went after Xykon in the first place was because Roy wanted to avenge his father's death. I thought he wanted to avenge his fathers Masters death
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Jun 4, 2007 16:52
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Chem-Comando posted:I thought he wanted to avenge his fathers Masters death Yeah, you're right. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0112.html
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Jun 4, 2007 17:35
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greatn posted:Yeah, you're right. Oops; that will teach me to talk about stuff I had read years ago without double checking. 
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Jun 4, 2007 18:11
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The site's down, so I keep thinking it must be because of an update. Sadly, it's just the site being down.
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Jun 4, 2007 18:26
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 NEW STRIP IS UP!Quite a few signs to be seen. Also, thanks for the reminder, Rich.  Just in case it goes down again: 
BlueArmyMan fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jun 4, 2007 |
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Jun 4, 2007 20:02
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BlueArmyMan posted:
"Oh hey everyone, don't forget, Roy's dead body is out rotting in the field! " I really hope Xykon rips Miho apart. I didn't like her from the beginning and I still don't.
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Jun 4, 2007 20:10
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How would the punches/kicks of someone with monk skills stack up versus spectral swords on a Lich? Perhaps the 12 gods do indeed work in mysterious ways.
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Jun 4, 2007 20:25
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Know what you call a high level fighter with no bonus feats every other level? A meatshield. That's all Miko is at this point.
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Jun 4, 2007 20:25
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I thought she had a bonus feat or two from her time as a monk. I could be misunderstanding what a monk does in D&D though.
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Jun 4, 2007 20:34
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Gyges posted:I thought she had a bonus feat or two from her time as a monk. I could be misunderstanding what a monk does in D&D though. Oh yeah, she was a monk. I know she has uncanny dodge at least. Do monks hands get magical pluses at some point or am I thinking of another system? In any event would that make them a magical bludgeoning weapon? Because Rawk if so. PS allow me to relate one of my favorite character stories. My mage had just reached 6th level. We suddenly ran across a group of monks that attacked our party. LIGHTNING BOLT! They completely dodge all damage. FIREBALL! They dodge all damage. I'm getting pissed. By this point the fighters go in and do some damage. I start to approach and get next to one of the fighters to cast a buff. Monks take some more damage. So then I take a five foot step to fight in front of the monk. "Dodge this." I say and hit him with a magic missle. I roll maximum damage and combined with the previous wounds he dies. Everyone thought it was really cool because we had recently seen the Matrix. Generally it's not a good idea to cast spells right in front of a Monk but I had a good enough Concentration check I was confident in my casting on the defensive. greatn fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jun 4, 2007 |
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Jun 4, 2007 20:44
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greatn posted:Oh yeah, she was a monk. I know she has uncanny dodge at least. Do monks hands get magical pluses at some point or am I thinking of another system? In any event would that make them a magical bludgeoning weapon? Because Rawk if so. Yes, at level 4 monks' unarmed attacks count as magical, and they are bludgeoning.
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Jun 4, 2007 20:56
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bgaesop posted:Yes, at level 4 monks' unarmed attacks count as magical, and they are bludgeoning. Now all I get is an image of Miko slapping the poo poo out of Xykon, and it amuses me greatly.
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Jun 4, 2007 20:58
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20 internet bux says she ends up helping Xykon unwittingly just as Soon is about to finish him off.
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Jun 4, 2007 21:18
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Lurdiak posted:20 internet bux says she ends up helping Xykon unwittingly just as Soon is about to finish him off. Kind of predictable, but I've got a feeling you're right.
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Jun 4, 2007 21:19
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Lurdiak posted:20 internet bux says she ends up helping Xykon unwittingly just as Soon is about to finish him off. That what I was thinking as well. Maybe she'll see the spectral Fu Manchu, think that he's a ghost summoned by Redcloak and attack him instead of Xykon.
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Jun 4, 2007 22:10
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I don't know, I would like to see her get a stern talking to from Soon about not flying off the handle in one's pursuit of Paladin justice. I think that might take her down a peg or two. Of course, at this point, she would probibly just think he was in league with roy and try to kill him. Er... again.
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Jun 4, 2007 22:25
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Factor_VIII posted:That what I was thinking as well. Maybe she'll see the spectral Fu Manchu, think that he's a ghost summoned by Redcloak and attack him instead of Xykon. Surely she'd recognise the founder of her own beloved order. I doubt she's going to attack the bunch of ghostly paladin dudes who are fighting the evil lich rather than the evil lich, anyway, and I for one would like to see Miko help out.
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Jun 4, 2007 23:18
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BlueArmyMan posted:Now all I get is an image of Miko slapping the poo poo out of Xykon, and it amuses me greatly. I don't think Miko is a level 4 monk though, so I don't think she is capable of damaging either Xykon or any of the ghost martyrs.
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Jun 4, 2007 23:25
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green leaf salad posted:Surely she'd recognise the founder of her own beloved order. I doubt she's going to attack the bunch of ghostly paladin dudes who are fighting the evil lich rather than the evil lich, anyway, and I for one would like to see Miko help out. It would certainly come close to giving Miko a redeeming trait for the first time in the strip, finally granting her a potential degree of likability. But we are probably supposed to hate her 24/7, so I like the idea that she delusionally ends up helping the Lich.
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Jun 4, 2007 23:36
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Quarex posted:But we are probably supposed to hate her 24/7, so I like the idea that she delusionally ends up helping the Lich. I don't like the idea, but it's pretty obvious that Burlew wants her to be hated 24/7, since he goes to extremes to make her appear foolish and be responsible for bad things. Redcloak and Xykon are more likeable than her, for crying out loud. It annoys me because, of all things, a fallen paladin should be a nuanced and relatable villain. The way she's handled is more like Arthas from Warcraft than anything, and that's not a compliment. When she first showed up her stick-up-the-butt was more of a hilarious quirk than anything, but I guess that's not how I was supposed to view it since Burlew kept piling on flaws. I don't understand why he's forcing me to hate this character when there's a serial killer in the group of heroes. EDIT: VVVV Yeah, see, this is exactly what I mean. I'm supposed to feel this way about a character in a comic where every evil character is likeable in his own way and some of them are on the main hero team. Lurdiak fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jun 5, 2007 |
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Jun 4, 2007 23:54
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I think the last strip further cements the notion that Miko is a self-righteous bitch who does not come close to deserving the "Paladin" title. She should stay Fallen for the rest of her accursed life. Quotes from just the latest strip: "I know you have a gran destiny in store for me" Being a Palading is about submitting to your order and your god for the public good. Her sense of self-importance is, in fact, just a form of childish Xykon-like arrogance. "You clearly do not desire me to be imprisioned, or you would no have allowed the bars to become cracked when the castle sustained damage" Miko has shown, again and again, the tendency to interpret anything and everything as a divine signal that always corroborates her actions or her misconclutions. She knows why the bars were cracked; she just chooses to believe it was a heavenly message, rather than physics, in order to continue with her vendetta. "If they wanted me to remain, they easily have the power to stop me" This is pure evil-thinking. "I have the power to do it, therefore it is right that I do it". The inaction of the gods just give her all the room she needs to justify anything she does. "My city" Again with the self aggrandizement. Also, her individualism and borderline egomania have become clear as of late, contrasting with the Paladin-Retoric from her early appearances. Text bolded for ilustrative (and dramatic) purposes. So, as I said, the bitch should stay Fallen. Edited for grammar. Sick_Boy fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Jun 5, 2007 |
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Jun 5, 2007 00:08
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RickoniX posted:I don't think Miko is a level 4 monk though, so I don't think she is capable of damaging either Xykon or any of the ghost martyrs. I wasn't saying that it would happen. I'm just saying that the idea of Miko the Monk engaging in a down and out slapfight with a lich sorcerer is inherently humorous to me. I mean, it would be something slightly unpredictable, instead of the somewhat expected "Miko accidentally saves Xykon" or "Miko gets a shot at redemption" options. We need to find the strip where she gives her history to get a better gauge of her level. I could've sworn that she mentioned at what level she went from Monk to Paladin. EDIT: I found the strip. She said that she went from Monk to Paladin at age 13, and confirmed that she took a few levels of Monk. No idea how many, though. BlueArmyMan fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jun 5, 2007 |
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Jun 5, 2007 00:43
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Lurdiak posted:Yeah, see, this is exactly what I mean. I'm supposed to feel this way about a character in a comic where every evil character is likeable in his own way and some of them are on the main hero team. It is a little weird, considering he's written articles about making interesting villains and whatnot. Maybe she's got more development coming. She's obviously really 2-D (IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE LOL) but personnally I admire the force of her conviction at least.
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Jun 5, 2007 00:47
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As an illustration of how a paladin can be played badly, she's pretty two dimensional. As a LE character who doesn't realize she's evil, I'd say she has a chance at development into something interesting. I'm a real newb at D&D, but I'm trying to learn. Seems like, at least according to the 3.5 player handbook, that at this point, she's textbook Lawful Evil. - Cares about tradition, loyalty, and order, but not freedom, dignity, or life - Takes what she wants within the limits of her code of conduct without regard for whom it hurts. - Plays by the rules but without mercy or compassion - Comfortable in a hierarchy and would like to rule, but is willing to serve. - Believes herself above unprincipled villains. I know that doesn't mesh very well with the whole 'concrete good/evil' thing you guys have talked about here, though, so I could be totally off. I guess 3.5 redefined the alignments(?), so maybe I'm not using them right. Bobulus fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Jun 5, 2007 |
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Jun 5, 2007 01:03
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Bobulus posted:As a LG paladin played poorly, she's pretty two dimensional. As a LE character who doesn't realize they're evil, I'd say she has a chance at development into something interesting. I believe that you are correct, even if she is not "offically" LE, she certainly fits the bill here. As for the "Force of her conviction", I feel her convictions are subordinate to her own egomania. she believes she has a great destiny ahead of her; and that is all that matters. Her strict moral code, misused as it is, is the way she has to "ensure" her superiority, to reaffirm the fact that she is superior, mainly to herself. Her convictions are a means to an end: the way her Destiny will be fullfiled. But, of course, there are other means. She will figure that out as soon as she fully comprehends the failure she is as a Paladin.
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Jun 5, 2007 01:11
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This wouldn't have happened to Miko if she had been an atheist  It is a good point that if she's a level four monk, she's actually equipped to take out or at least severely damage Xykon, though. Then again entering into a brawl with a lich is a really bad idea because of that 1d8 + 5 permanent paralysis touch attack they can throw around indefinitely.
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Jun 5, 2007 01:45
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Lurdiak posted:I don't like the idea, but it's pretty obvious that Burlew wants her to be hated 24/7, since he goes to extremes to make her appear foolish and be responsible for bad things. Redcloak and Xykon are more likeable than her, for crying out loud. I'm sort of working on a theory where the more people on Burlew's forum complain that Miko is a misunderstood character, the more two-dimensional he makes her. It's sort of like how Belkar has been getting steadily more and more overtly evil as time goes on, because people on Burlew's forum thought he was CN despite all evidence to the contrary.
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Jun 5, 2007 02:52
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dangit, and it was such a great idea, too. I'll also say that I don't agree that Miko is LE. I think that she's LG, just dumb. She may be acting in ways that evil would be happy about, but not at the behest of evil, or with evil intent. It's D&D Alignment; intent is more important than outcome. If I get manipulated into doing something Evil, I don't involuntarily undergo an alignment change. Robot Bastard fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Jun 5, 2007 |
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Jun 5, 2007 05:20
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Robot Bastard posted:Actually, I was just thinking something interesting--all of the various Clerics we see in this strip actually have Gods, Gods who exist in human terms (or, rather, character-in-the-strip terms) and act in ways that humans can understand. Miko, on the other hand, prays to some unknown and unknowable "God" who never talks to anyone else, or even talks to Miko aside from random events that she ascribes to the Gods' timely intervention on her behalf. What? No she doesn't. She prays to the 12 gods, which we have seen in the strip before, and they even talked to Thor recently. Her Gods are as real as any others.
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Jun 5, 2007 05:25
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Bobulus posted:As an illustration of how a paladin can be played badly, she's pretty two dimensional. As a LE character who doesn't realize she's evil, I'd say she has a chance at development into something interesting. Robot Bastard posted:dangit, and it was such a great idea, too.
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Jun 5, 2007 07:40
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Efreet saiid posted:Bollox. she's evil, or heading there. D&D alignment is not nearly as retarded and people pretend. This brings us back to the age-old question of whether deluded is the same as evil. Miko thinks she's doing the will of the gods and that Roy and co. were basically minions of Xykon and so on and so forth. The alignment written on her character sheet could easily still be "Lawful Good", there'd just be a bunch of assorted derangements written under it.
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Jun 5, 2007 07:45
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Factor_VIII posted:Xykon has already killed both of them once before without even breaking a sweat, so I doubt that they'd be very effective a second time, especially now that Xykon has Redcloack's backing. In all fairness, it was a huge fall that killed Roy. Roy managed to take a meteor storm and now Xykon has used up a good amount of spells. Could be a fair fight
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Jun 5, 2007 07:59
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Arctic Baldwin posted:In all fairness, it was a huge fall that killed Roy. Roy managed to take a meteor storm and now Xykon has used up a good amount of spells. Could be a fair fight Except for the lich's touch attack. It ignores AC except for the dex bonus. Anyway, I think Miko isn't quite LE yet, she's LN.
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Jun 5, 2007 08:48
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Ferrinus posted:This brings us back to the age-old question of whether deluded is the same as evil. In reality she killed an old man and hosed up a bunch of poo poo for no good god-drat reason and that means she's at least neutral.
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Jun 5, 2007 09:38
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Efreet saiid posted:Yes but that's only if the DM is loving with her player or they're having an argument over it. But she doesn't have a player! Honestly, I think she's the example of the only way that a (Lawful) Good character can serve as an antagonist for a Good (or maybe Neutral) party - the Good antagonist is not in possession of all the facts and somehow prevented from acquiring them. Soonmot posted:Anyway, I think Miko isn't quite LE yet, she's LN. D&D alignment isn't supposed to work the way it does in most D&D RPGs. A Good character doesn't keep committing evil acts until their alignment shifts first to Neutral and then to Evil.
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Jun 5, 2007 09:48
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