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Halloween Jack posted:Hey, anyone else thinks it's funny that Belkar mocks Elan for taking bard levels, when Belkar's a hilariously badly-made character? Edit: And before anyone chimes in saying he's really a Rogue, he's capable of casting Ranger spells under the effect of an Owl's Wisdom, and has attempted Wild Empathy checks in the past.
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Jun 9, 2007 01:20
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| # ? May 15, 2024 19:12 |
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We interrupt this alignment debate with a  new strip
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Jun 9, 2007 05:02
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Well, there goes the castle. Although if O'Chul wasn't blown up into chunks, there's a chance Miko wasn't either.
Sock fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Jun 9, 2007 |
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Jun 9, 2007 05:07
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This is the best tea party ever!
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Jun 9, 2007 05:11
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DaveWoo posted:We interrupt this alignment debate with a Oh god I hope Miko dies. I hope she dies HARD.
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Jun 9, 2007 05:14
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Zoolooman posted:This is the best tea party ever! Well apparently gates DO explode when they are destroyed 
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Jun 9, 2007 05:15
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man you'd think somebody would be making an effort to get all these freaking rifts sealed back up, non-interference agreement or no.
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Jun 9, 2007 05:16
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I believe the explanation is that the gods can fix the rifts, but to do so involves unmaking the world. (I was bored last night and went on a trip through the archives)
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Jun 9, 2007 05:18
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I wanted the gate not to blow to see if Soon could finally convey to Miko that she isn't destined or anything but is just crazy, but the chance of her finally dieing forever is nice too. It's win win for everybody!
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Jun 9, 2007 05:21
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The new strip is up, you guys.Factor_VIII posted:This has already been discussed in this thread; the explosion was the mechanism used to destroy that specific gate. Gates don't explode when they are destroyed. Don't you feel silly now!
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Jun 9, 2007 05:22
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sakesniper posted:I wanted the gate not to blow to see if Soon could finally convey to Miko that she isn't destined or anything but is just crazy, but the chance of her finally dieing forever is nice too. It's win win for everybody! I'm putting no hope in Miko being dead until I see the X's of her eyes. I really didn't think the gate would explode either. Hmmm I wonder what happened at Lirian's gate. Oh well, looking forward to how they'll wrap this up.
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Jun 9, 2007 05:29
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JoeSchmoe posted:I believe the explanation is that the gods can fix the rifts, but to do so involves unmaking the world. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html "and while they never found a way to remove the rifts entirely, they did develop means to seal them up." ...the means being these gates that keep getting blown up and not replaced.
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Jun 9, 2007 05:35
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If you blow up (  ) the first panel, you can totally see a tiny little Xykon and Redcloack flying away.
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Jun 9, 2007 05:46
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Factor_VIII posted:Dragon died? I'm a bit sorry to hear that; I sort of expected that it would keep getting published for as long as D&D was around, considering it's almost as old as the game itself. Yep, that turned out to be not at all correct.
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Jun 9, 2007 05:51
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JoeSchmoe posted:I believe the explanation is that the gods can fix the rifts, but to do so involves unmaking the world. Yeah, but there's no reason, and this always bugged me, why they aren't making every effort and casting all the rolls and divine favour for the team that's trying to save the gates and keep sealed the god killing monster. I suppose they'd have to be fairly certain that they can remake the world and the Snarl's prison quickly enough should it all come down that they themselves aren't in any particular danger, so they can sit back and be aloof and 'it's up to the mortals to save themselves lah dee dah crumpets?'
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Jun 9, 2007 05:54
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I'm hoping that O-Chul is still alive based on his eyes. I don't think the thing under the umbrella would be callous enough to finish him off.
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Jun 9, 2007 05:55
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MikeJF posted:I suppose they'd have to be fairly certain that they can remake the world and the Snarl's prison quickly enough should it all come down that they themselves aren't in any particular danger, so they can sit back and be aloof and 'it's up to the mortals to save themselves lah dee dah crumpets?'
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Jun 9, 2007 06:00
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MikeJF posted:Yeah, but there's no reason, and this always bugged me, why they aren't making every effort and casting all the rolls and divine favour for the team that's trying to save the gates and keep sealed the god killing monster. My theory is that the holes in the Snarl's prison were caused by the minor disagreements the Gods had while weaving the second world. note the small rift caused in Azure city where there are ninjas and the known disputation over what roll elves have with a corresponding rift in the elven lands. Following that theory any attempt to reweave the world would leave them at the mercy of the same sorts of disagreements, perhaps even worse now that there are more gods, which would weaken the fabric. Far better then to hold the world as it is and find ways to put locks on the holes rather then risk trying to do the whole thing over again, even ignoring that there's a chance the snarl would kill them before they could recage it. In unrelated news I hope is we see the return of Baron Pineapple.
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Jun 9, 2007 06:08
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Archyduke posted:I'm hoping that O-Chul is still alive based on his eyes. I don't think the thing under the umbrella would be callous enough to finish him off. I thought about that and realized that he's still paralyzed, so maybe he's just unable to go all X_X until paralysis is removed.
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Jun 9, 2007 06:08
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FMguru posted:That's pretty D&Dish, though. They put in the effort by giving a chunk of their divine power to clerics and paladins. If the Gods directly intervened in real-world matters on a regular basis, there'd be no need for parties of adventurers to do anything. Yeah, I'm not saying I'd expect them to intervene all the time, but I'm surprised they're not making an exception for the people trying to secure the bloody Snarl.
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Jun 9, 2007 06:21
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sakesniper posted:I wanted the gate not to blow to see if Soon could finally convey to Miko that she isn't destined or anything but is just crazy, but the chance of her finally dieing forever is nice too. It's win win for everybody! In that she has evasion, she probably didn't even take damage from the explosion. On the other hand, Soon is incorporeal, so he may still have the chance to explain to her what an idiot she is.
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Jun 9, 2007 06:43
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The art in that first panel is pretty god drat awesome, and I totally missed Xykon and Redcloak flying away the first time I looked at it I was so mesmerized by all the explodiness. In other news, I see Belkar still has his skull of fear and flame, and I really hope Elan leads the Order for a short while based on his and Haley's plan.
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Jun 9, 2007 06:46
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Does this mean O'Chul will have to thank umbrella monster for "the lovely tea party"?
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Jun 9, 2007 07:33
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That's a pretty nice boom. I assume Miko survived, and i'm wondering about o-chul and roy because their bodies are both helpless without aid. Despite how many people are around, I think it would be cool if a new group was introduced, like actual good guys, coming to the aid of the city, collecting roy and ochul along the way- that seems unlikely however. While these strips seem to be coming fast, they're not fast enough for me, I really want to see what happens next, and in particular what kind of status quo results from the outcome of the battle. I'm worried that along-dead roy might end up as the kind of prolonged sidetrack that is notorious in webcomics, especially since they've already been on one for so long. Now, back to the main event: Ferrinus posted:It's not complex at all to say that alignment is a matter of basic beliefs and intentions rather than a matter of beliefs admixtured in some bizarre way with past actions. quote:The only way actions matter to alignment is in the sense that they reveal your character's beliefs and intentions. But not every character acts in the way he would philosophically prefer himself to act 100% of the time! quote:Homocide would probably mean killing you specifically and that's not evil at all . . . of course, it would only take one terrifying reversal of fortune to see my high status utterly destroyed. Yes, they are fickle, always looking for weakness. . . Very well! I shall not make a helldump thread about you if your promise not to try and kill me. Shall we call this a gentleman's agreement? quote:But Miko was a valid paladin right up until the point when she wasn't, buddy. She just wasn't a very good (good in the sense of well-suited for her stated purpose) one. quote:You deny what I'm saying but then you support it in the same breath. quote:Obviously the guy who killed his friend in a fit of rage and isn't willing to mentally confront himself about it is "struggling", and of course he's LG with a big fat spotlight issue looming in his dark and retarded past. But he's not not-Good until he actually decides that killing people for some reason other than self-defense/defense of innocents is okay. quote:Of course you're not going to, because there aren't any rules in it about the DM forcibly changing a player's alignment. The whole idea is probably an artifact of earlier editions when DMs were supposed to micromanage their players more. Gumby posted:Not quite. Dragon and Dungeon have been published by a third-party publisher (Paizo Publishing) for a few years now. Wizards wanted to make their web site a one-stop place for all things D&D, so they yanked the license to publish Dragon and Dungeon from the people who had it. Wizards will soon unveil something called a "Digital Initiative," that's their updated D&D website. I agree that the move is a bad one though, I mean I can walk into a newsangency in a hick-town in queensland and find a copy of the dungeons and dragons magazines, that is not the kind of exposure you want to lose.
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Jun 9, 2007 08:42
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Ferrinus posted:Don't you feel silly now!  Sefer posted:In that she has evasion, she probably didn't even take damage from the explosion. On the other hand, Soon is incorporeal, so he may still have the chance to explain to her what an idiot she is.
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Jun 9, 2007 09:37
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Unfortunately the concussive force of the explosion is probably a force effect, and thus would effect an ethereal creature like Soon just fine, but likely allowed a reflex save, meaning that Miko is completely unharmed.
atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Jun 9, 2007 |
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Jun 9, 2007 10:50
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Efreet saiid posted:Somebody is the result of who they are and what they've done. Ignoring what they've done is absurd. Especially for them! You know, even the language you use here is pretty much a statement of their point. "Somebody" is the result of who they are and what they've done" - a character's past actions only have bearing on that character's alignment because, usually, someone's actions will have an effect on their psyche! quote:She was what 10th level of higher she should have been long fallen. At the very least you must admit she was set up for a fall. Of course - the personality Burlew gave her meant she was in danger of committing a My Best Friend's In Bed With My Wife, Die! style evil act at any moment, and this is in fact what she did. But while she was a little ball of autocratic fury the whole time, she was still Lawful Good. I wouldn't call her Lawful Good now purely because it's obvious that she's never going to subject what she believes the will of the gods is to any kind of moral scrutiny ("Okay, the gods want me to kill everybody here, but maybe I shouldn't do it?"). quote:No because i'm not denying beliefs and such matter, it's just not the only thing that matters. See, here we are again. You're saying that if a character who killed his best friend doesn't admit it wasn't okay, he can't be Good, while if he does he can. The deciding factor isn't whether he committed a murder, it's how he feels about that murder and what his overall stance on murder is. quote:Oh please. I'm feeling pity now. You know what? I'm going to go get you a blanky and some warm milk, because it's clear you just can't handle the harsh realities of the world and are mere moments from an emotional breakdown. Yes Ferrinus, your DM gets to change your character's alignment. If they don't do it when they should, it's because they're a loving pussy. Look, I mean that in the sense that a DM doesn't get to dictate a character's thoughts, and someone's alignment is a function of their thoughts. If I tell a DM that my Good character feels heart-wrenching regret about his crime of passion, then that's enough for him to stay Good. If I say I feel heart-wrenching regret but keep saying things like "I draw my broadsword and hack the merchant in twain for the high prices he's charging me", then my alignment probably gets changed on the basis that I am clearly lying about my character's thoughts, not on the basis that the raw act of stabbing someone changes my alignment in and of itself. Factor_VIII posted:That was the consensus here, so at least I wasn't alone in my mistake. I actually thought the same thing you did, your post just happened to be on my screen when I checked the strip in another window and saw the gigantic explosion in the first panel. 
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Jun 9, 2007 10:52
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UberJew posted:Unfortunately the concussive force of the explosion is probably a force effect, and thus would effect an ethereal creature like Soon just fine, but likely allowed a reflex save, meaning that Miko is completely unharmed. loving Monk Evasion. 
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Jun 9, 2007 14:21
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UberJew posted:Unfortunately the concussive force of the explosion is probably a force effect, and thus would effect an ethereal creature like Soon just fine, but likely allowed a reflex save, meaning that Miko is completely unharmed. The explosion might not hurt her, but how about the disintegration of the building she's currently in? Even if we ignore debris, she's in for a bit of a fall.
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Jun 9, 2007 17:15
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MikeJF posted:The explosion might not hurt her, but how about the disintegration of the building she's currently in? Even if we ignore debris, she's in for a bit of a fall. Monks have Slow Fall.
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Jun 9, 2007 18:07
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bgaesop posted:Monks have Slow Fall. They have to be touching a wall to use it, though. I'm not sure if segments of wall falling at the same rate as the monk counts. Despite the simplicity, I have to agree with others and say that is a cool looking explosion.
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Jun 9, 2007 20:38
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FMguru posted:If you blow up ( It *looks* like there's something else being blown away to the upper left corner as well, maybe Miko?
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Jun 9, 2007 21:31
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Taerkar posted:It *looks* like there's something else being blown away to the upper left corner as well, maybe Miko? On the other hand, we didn't see O-Chul in the "explosion" panel, and we know he made it out even though he was about as close as Miko was.
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Jun 9, 2007 22:28
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Vomax posted:They have to be touching a wall to use it, though. I'm not sure if segments of wall falling at the same rate as the monk counts. She was at full HP. Even 20d6 probably wouldn't do her in. Besides it was probably way less than 200 feet up. That's something like 16 stories, which is ridiculously huge for any sort of castle. Probably eight floors at most, for 10-12d6 of falling damage. No problem with all her levels of meatshield. atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Jun 10, 2007 |
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Jun 10, 2007 12:35
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It wouldn't serve the dramatic narrative to have her die at this juncture. Rules be damned, she's still alive.
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Jun 10, 2007 13:13
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Lurdiak posted:It wouldn't serve the dramatic narrative to have her die at this juncture. Rules be damned, she's still alive. Actually, having Roy and Miko meet up somehow in the afterlife could be interesting...
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Jun 10, 2007 13:41
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I could see her dying from the explosion but then having the sheer gumption necessary to come back as some sort of OotS- and god-hating undead thing.
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Jun 10, 2007 15:50
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She could always be blown directly into the Snarl's dimension and then come back out as some kind of Snarl-empowered godkiller thing.
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Jun 10, 2007 21:38
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Maybe you should take it to another thread, Ferrinus and happyelf. I mean drat. I think your argument has heated up too much and gone beyond "useful, substantive discussion much needed in a webcomic thread" to "nitpicking and arguing for its own sake." Or hey, take a voluntary probation and don't say another word for a few days. For all you know Durkon will cast "Know Alignment" on her next strip and somebody's just going to feel dumb. More likely that somebody will go on a rant about how wrong BURLEW is, but I can hope. And what the hell, four or five people from the last few pages talking about OoTS starting to suck? What the hell? If your hours of careful analysis have indeed revealed to you that the strip is gearing up for the old shark-jump, how about feeling smug in private and not bringing crap into a happy place?
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Jun 10, 2007 22:09
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Thanks, SuperKlaus. I've been skipping their stupid argument after the first page or so, but it still bugs me. And OotS is still one of the best webcomics out there.
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Jun 10, 2007 22:42
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