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Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

"Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Affi posted:

Yes because using like Command/Shout and earthquake sure is pretty overpowering :3:

He stomped his foot! No magic or any ability otherwise involved! Jerk!! <:mad:>

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Affi
Dec 18, 2005

Break bread wit the enemy

X GON GIVE IT TO YA
Extraordinary ability, probably says in the description "Like the spell" :mad:

Why am I :mad:, I don't know :( The real question remains does it have damage reduction or did Belkar miss because of the darkness spell?

Also what is the fire ant or whatever referring to by saying "0 for 5 sucker".
At first I figured it was because of like 50% concealment or something but darkness only grants 20% :(

Skeet Urchin
Jun 6, 2006

by Peatpot

Affi posted:

Also what is the fire ant or whatever referring to by saying "0 for 5 sucker".

belkar stabbed five times and he hit zero times

J.A.B.C.
Jul 2, 2007

There's no need to rush to be an adult.


All we can agree on is that the thing is immensely powerful.

So far, it hasn't shown any type of magic [though some interesting metamagic feats and abilities.]. All it has shown is a love for tea parties, stew, and stiff people.

gothfae
Mar 28, 2004

There seems no plan because it is all plan. There seems no center because it is all center.

Affi posted:

Fire ant

Fiendish Cockroaches :eng101:

Tag Plastic
Jun 10, 2006

Not organic.

Affi posted:

Why am I :mad:, I don't know :( The real question remains does it have damage reduction or did Belkar miss because of the darkness spell?

It's damage reduction, based on this strip: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0374.html

Now the question is what type? Do any critters even have DR/-, all do they all have weaknesses?

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Tag Plastic posted:

It's damage reduction, based on this strip: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0374.html

Now the question is what type? Do any critters even have DR/-, all do they all have weaknesses?

DR/- exists. Barbarians have it, for starters.

Red_Mage
Jul 23, 2007
I SHOULD BE FUCKING PERMABANNED BUT IN THE MEANTIME ASK ME ABOUT MY FAILED KICKSTARTER AND RUNNING OFF WITH THE MONEY

Wolfsheim posted:

Although I'm starting to agree that by this point the monster's power-level is getting so obscene that I can't see it being anything that reasonably exists in the actual game (of course, I'm not exactly the expert, so maybe someone can prove me wrong).

Nothing is obscene compared to the Tarrasque
Now if the Tarrasque was psionic... terrifying.

Also, how did Belkar get in 5 attacks, ranger and barbarian, even with two weapon fighting feats wouldn't he cap out at 4 given his Estimated Character Level?

A.o.D.
Jan 15, 2006

Red_Mage posted:

Nothing is obscene compared to the Tarrasque
Now if the Tarrasque was psionic... terrifying.

Also, how did Belkar get in 5 attacks, ranger and barbarian, even with two weapon fighting feats wouldn't he cap out at 4 given his Estimated Character Level?

Well, if he has a base attack bonus of at least +11 and a dex on 19 (neither of which are unreasonable at this point), he has 2 iterative attacks with his main weapon, and 3 with his off hand weapon from the 2-weapon fighting feat chain (regular, improved, and greater.)

edit: Judging from the position of the "stab!"s, that seems to be exactly what's happening, assuming Belkar is right handed.


Dear god shoot me now. :suicide:

A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Jul 23, 2007

Gally
May 31, 2001

Come on!
Poor O'chul. :(

Sock
Oct 8, 2001
Do me. Do me.
Why did Haley shoot Roy in the balls? :raise:

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

Sock posted:

Why did Haley shoot Roy in the balls? :raise:

Plot point for when (not if) he gets revived, I guess. :confused:

See also: Will Smith shooting Martin Lawrence in the rear end in the fine cinematic masterwork, Bad Boys 2.

rantmo
Jul 30, 2003

A smile better suits a hero



Sock posted:

Why did Haley shoot Roy in the balls? :raise:

I can't for the life of me figure out what the point of that was.

Davethulhu
Aug 12, 2003

Morbid Hound

rantmo posted:

I can't for the life of me figure out what the point of that was.
She shot him to pin him to the wall so he wouldn't fall any deeper into the chasm. She wasn't aiming at his crotch, that's just where the shot ended up hitting. I will now provide a quote from Roger Rabbit that I think applies:

Eddie Valiant: You mean you could've taken your hand out of that cuff at any time?
Roger Rabbit: No, not at any time, only when it was funny.

RiotGearEpsilon
Jun 26, 2005
SHAVE ME FROM MY SHELF

Red_Mage posted:

Nothing is obscene compared to the Tarrasque

Lies.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

"Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Red_Mage posted:

Nothing is obscene compared to the Tarrasque
Now if the Tarrasque was psionic... terrifying.

Also, how did Belkar get in 5 attacks, ranger and barbarian, even with two weapon fighting feats wouldn't he cap out at 4 given his Estimated Character Level?

I have to ask, what would be the point of including this in a reasonable game, unless its just meant to be run from? Or is it feasible for characters at a ridiculously high level??

RiotGearEpsilon
Jun 26, 2005
SHAVE ME FROM MY SHELF

Wolfsheim posted:

I have to ask, what would be the point of including this in a reasonable game, unless its just meant to be run from? Or is it feasible for characters at a ridiculously high level??

To a sufficiently motivated party of 18th-20th level characters with sufficient resources, a Tarrasque is an afternoon of work and no more.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition
Admittedly, back in second edition, the terrasque was more or less unstoppable, especially since 90% of the spells in the game bounced off of it. I remember wiling away a few afternoons with my gaming group trying to figure out how you'd beat the drat thing, and it seemed like every gamer I ran into had a pet theory on it.

Mine involved a few dozen well-equipped archers with movement-enhancing items, while a friend's involved a flying citadel and dropping walls of stone.

bgaesop
Nov 1, 2005

by Y Kant Ozma Post
The Tarrasque can be taken down in one round: harm/finger of death/any other death effect => something to make sure it's at -30 => miracle/wish it to stay dead.

RiotGearEpsilon
Jun 26, 2005
SHAVE ME FROM MY SHELF

bgaesop posted:

The Tarrasque can be taken down in one round: harm/finger of death/any other death effect => something to make sure it's at -30 => miracle/wish it to stay dead.

The Tarrasque is not immune to sneak attacks. The Tarrasque can swallow whole. While outside the tarrasque, you suffer bite/claw/claw/horn/horn/slap for shitloads of damage, probably over a hundred HP per round, maybe more if it criticals one of your arms off. Inside it, however, you suffer about 17 points of damage per round (because you're immune to acid, obviously). So stuff high level halfing rogues down it's throat until their combined full attacks blender their way through it's hitpoints. A single max level rogue can (and should, if they're doing this) be doing 5-6 attacks per round at 10d6 sneak attack each, for like... 100 damage per rogue per round, taking DR in to account.

This assumes you can convince it to swallow you without chewing, a dubious proposition, but that's why the greeks made olive oil. Really.

TheFuzzyLumpkin
Sep 15, 2003

But you are a person, and I can't say I'm awfully fond of that.

Wolfsheim posted:

I have to ask, what would be the point of including this in a reasonable game, unless its just meant to be run from? Or is it feasible for characters at a ridiculously high level??

Beating the tarrasque at low levels is one of the best ways to keep a group of people very familiar with tweaking the D&D system busy for an afternoon, and also one of the classic openers upon finding out somebody you know also plays D&D, because every gamer really DOES have a pet theory on killing it.

It's really meant for experienced players, rather than high level PCs - people who are very familiar with the system and want something more challenging than "keep hitting it and it'll die eventually."

The real trick to the tarrasque is its auto-resurrect, but getting wish/miracle isn't as difficult a proposition at level 19 as it is at level 7.

Here's some more of the insane CR monsters, if you're into this sort of thing. A tarrasque is a CR 20, but the MM goes up to I think 27 or so. Scroll down to the bottom of this page:

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/theraven_stephenh/monsters/ordered_by_cr.html

Edit: I personally would rather tangle with a tarrasque than a solar any day. Solars exist to one-shot you, and they're smart as poo poo. At least you can run away from a tarrasque if your plan goes pear-shaped.

TheFuzzyLumpkin fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jul 23, 2007

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink

Wolfsheim posted:

I have to ask, what would be the point of including this in a reasonable game, unless its just meant to be run from? Or is it feasible for characters at a ridiculously high level??

A thirteenth level cleric can solo it, assuming it takes appropriate prepairation.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dkb1/dnd/tarrasque.txt posted:

We've only got one person, so we need rather a lot of damage output.
Fortunately, we've only got one person, so buff spells are cheap. Our
cleric will use the following:

- The Magic domain allows our cleric to cast arcane spells off scrolls.
- The tried-and-true mighty composite +4 longbow, enchanted to +5 with
Greater Magic Weapon.
- Fifty +5 arrows, similarly enchanted.
- Our cleric will be polymorphed (from a scroll) into a Girallon, which
has 26 strength and 17 dexterity. (And four arms!)
- Our cleric will also read a scroll of Maximized Cat's-Grace; this will
boost his dexterity to 22.
- Our cleric will wear a mithril chain shirt with the "of Speed"
enchantment from Defenders of the Faith. This makes him permanently
hasted. It's a little pricey, but he really should have one anyway.
- The Fly spell, from a scroll, and the Expeditious Retreat spell, from
another scroll, gives him a base flying movement of 180.
- The Improved Invisibility spell doesn't provide protection since the
Tarrasque can spot invisible creatures, but it does grant +2 to-hit.
- Divine Power is a fourth-level cleric spell that grants the caster a
base attack bonus equal to their total character level - in this case, 13.
It lasts one round per level.
- Divine Favor is a first-level cleric spell that grants the caster a +1
luck bonus to attack and damage per three caster levels. It lasts one
minute.
- Righteous Might is a fifth-level cleric spell that doubles the caster's
size, granting -1 to-hit and increasing his weapon's damage die by one.
It lasts one round per level.
- Bless is a first-level cleric spell that grants a +1 morale bonus
to-hit. It lasts one minute per level.
- The Weapon Focus (composite longbow) feat grants +1 to-hit.
- The magic item "Bracers of Archery" grants the wearer +2 to-hit. It
also grants +1 to damage, but only at close range.
- The Rapid Shot feat grants our cleric an extra attack at his highest
bonus, but inflicts -2 to all attacks made that round.

Previously, we've needed to get Greater Magic Weapon on scrolls in order
to reach caster level 15. Here, that won't be needed. There's a magic
item called a Necklace of Karma Bead that, when activated, grants a cleric
a +4 boost to caster level for ten minutes. That will increase our
cleric to caster level 17, which is plenty for our purposes.

We'll try to kill the Tarrasque in two minutes or less, which poses a
small problem since most of our spells don't last quite that long. To
solve this we'll use the Extend Spell feat, which makes a spell one level
higher and doubles its duration.

This gives us values of:

To-hit Damage
Base attack bonus +13 1d8
Rapid Shot -2
Divine Power -1 +2d6-1d8
Strength +4
Bow enhancement +5 +5
Arrow enhancement +5 +5
Divine Favor +5 +5
Dexterity +6
Invisible +2
Bracers of Archery +2
Weapon Focus +2
Bless +1
--------- ---------
+38 26 (average)

Our cleric gets a total of five attacks, at +38/+38/+38/+33/+28. Of
course, the Tarrasque will probably be moving, so he'll need to use his
Haste partial action to give chase; this means he usually gets four arrows
per round, at +38/+38/+33/+28. The third arrow has a 95% chance to hit
the Tarrasque's 35 AC, and the fourth one has a 70% chance to hit, for an
average of 3.65 hits per round. At 26 damage per shot, that's an expected
yield of 94 damage per round; the Tarrasque heals 40 damage, so we get 54
damage per round of firing. That kills the Tarrasque in under two
minutes, during which time our cleric fires about 80 arrows. As usual, he
uses a Miracle finisher. He can cast the spell off a scroll since he's
caster level 17 anyway (though that doesn't save much money).


Summary.
Cost:
17250gp - +1 mithril chain shirt of speed
6000gp - necklace of karma bead
5100gp - bracers of archery
500gp - mighty composite +4 longbow
1125gp - scroll of maximized cats-grace
700gp - scroll of polymorph
700gp - scroll of improved invisibility
325gp - scroll of fly
100gp - scroll of expeditious retreat (caster level 4)
various cleric spells - free
28825gp - Miracle finisher scroll

28850gp for equipment we should have anyway, 2950gp for scrolls, and
28825gp for the Miracle finisher. B.

Level: Everything works with caster level 13. A.

Time: You'd need to prepare spells specifically for this, so figure about
a day. A.

Experience: 46800 experience, all to one person. Perfect. A+.

Sensibility: Everything more-or-less works. A.

Legality: This method is entirely legal. A.

Summary: If you're going to build your D&D character into a one-man army,
this is the way to go.

You know how some people really hate clerics? This is why.

IMJack
Apr 16, 2003

Royalty is a continuous ripping and tearing motion.


Fun Shoe

Schwarzwald posted:

A thirteenth level cleric can solo it, assuming it takes appropriate prepairation.


You know how some people really hate clerics? This is why.

If I pointed out that some of this poo poo is 3.0 edition rules that got changed in 3.5 (specifically, bow enhancements and arrow enhancements no longer stack, and there's no longer a dice roll in the Cat's Grace spell that can be maximized), would you think less of me?

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink

IMJack posted:

If I pointed out that some of this poo poo is 3.0 edition rules that got changed in 3.5 (specifically, bow enhancements and arrow enhancements no longer stack, and there's no longer a dice roll in the Cat's Grace spell that can be maximized), would you think less of me?

No, but I'd think more of WotC.

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

bgaesop posted:

The Tarrasque can be taken down in one round: harm/finger of death/any other death effect => something to make sure it's at -30 => miracle/wish it to stay dead.

Finger of death is a ray, isn't it? No dice.

Jon
Nov 30, 2004

Wanderer posted:

Finger of death is a ray, isn't it? No dice.

Why?

Skeet Urchin
Jun 6, 2006

by Peatpot

Dr. Ron Paul posted:

Why?

Red_Mage posted:

Nothing is obscene compared to the Tarrasque

quote:

Carapace (Ex)

The tarrasque’s armorlike carapace is exceptionally tough and highly reflective, deflecting all rays, lines, cones, and even magic missile spells. There is a 30% chance of reflecting any such effect back at the caster; otherwise, it is merely negated. Check for reflection before rolling to overcome the creature’s spell resistance.

edit: I don't know much d&d stuff though, and "it is merely negated" doesn't really match up with "overcome the creature's spell resistance" in my mind, so I'm probably missing something

Red_Mage
Jul 23, 2007
I SHOULD BE FUCKING PERMABANNED BUT IN THE MEANTIME ASK ME ABOUT MY FAILED KICKSTARTER AND RUNNING OFF WITH THE MONEY

Wolfsheim posted:

I have to ask, what would be the point of including this in a reasonable game, unless its just meant to be run from? Or is it feasible for characters at a ridiculously high level??

Eh... Xykon is pretty evil, fitting it under an umbrella is kind of tough though.

As for beating the Tarrasque:

Any class with sufficient amount of money and decent AC (or some form of avoiding getting hit) should be able to win. A Psionic Artificier is ideal for this task

- Requires: lots of portable holes, a few bags of holding, dorje of hustle (or some other speed booster)
- Steps: If there is prep time, place the holes in a certain area, cover them with some form of an illusion. If there isn't proceed directly to step 4
1. Lure the Tarrasque to the holy area.
2. When the Tarrasgue sinks into the holes (they won't contain him fully, but they don't have to) lob your bags of holding into the holes.
3. The bags of holding will open an interdimensional rift banishing the lower half of the Tarrasque to the astral plane, you have 1d6 rounds before he regenerates.
4. Using your speed boost lob more portable holes on top the temporarily immobile Tarrasque, then lob more bags of holding on top of said holes.
5. Rinse, Repeat, until the Tarrasque is scattered across the Astral Plane. Assuming he regenerates there, well, thats the Astral Plane's problem.

Tag Plastic
Jun 10, 2006

Not organic.
The best anti-Tarrasque plan I ever saw was:

1. Catch it asleep (as it generally is)
2. Apply Headband of Intellect +6 and Ring of Sustenance
3. Wake it up and make friends with a suddenly reasonably smart and not-hungry True Neutral critter :glomp:

RiotGearEpsilon
Jun 26, 2005
SHAVE ME FROM MY SHELF

Tag Plastic posted:

The best anti-Tarrasque plan I ever saw was:

1. Catch it asleep (as it generally is)
2. Apply Headband of Intellect +6 and Ring of Sustenance
3. Wake it up and make friends with a suddenly reasonably smart and not-hungry True Neutral critter :glomp:

That makes me smile! I remember back in the day, the cleric of the party bestowed his Headband of Intellect +6 on the new baron we had just rescued from the forces of evil, that he might rule wisely. Good vibes.

Edit: God dammit, awesome was awesome

RiotGearEpsilon fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Jul 25, 2007

Kojiro
Aug 11, 2003

LET'S GET TO THE TOP!

RiotGearEpsilon posted:

The Tarrasque is not immune to sneak attacks. The Tarrasque can swallow whole. While outside the tarrasque, you suffer bite/claw/claw/horn/horn/slap for shitloads of damage, probably over a hundred HP per round, maybe more if it criticals one of your arms off. Inside it, however, you suffer about 17 points of damage per round (because you're immune to acid, obviously). So stuff high level halfing rogues down it's throat until their combined full attacks blender their way through it's hitpoints. A single max level rogue can (and should, if they're doing this) be doing 5-6 attacks per round at 10d6 sneak attack each, for like... 100 damage per rogue per round, taking DR in to account.

This assumes you can convince it to swallow you without chewing, a dubious proposition, but that's why the greeks made olive oil. Really.
Damage done while you're in a creature's gullet doesn't go onto its hitpoints. Why? No idea. It just doesn't.

bgaesop posted:

The Tarrasque can be taken down in one round: harm/finger of death/any other death effect => something to make sure it's at -30 => miracle/wish it to stay dead.
Harm doesn't do that poo poo anymore since 3.5, not the 'down to 1hp' thing anyway. Also it has spell resistance out the wazoo and saves like woah. You'd have to be very, VERY lucky to one shot it.

Robot Bastard
Jul 14, 2004

by Ozma

RiotGearEpsilon posted:

Inside it, however, you suffer about 17 points of damage per round (because you're immune to acid, obviously). So stuff high level halfing rogues down it's throat until their combined full attacks blender their way through it's hitpoints.
Hee! I'm envisioning a battery of ballistae with halfling rogues strapped to the spears, and they shoot volleys of them at the thing.

Kojiro posted:

Damage done while you're in a creature's gullet doesn't go onto its hitpoints. Why? No idea. It just doesn't.
This whole "let yourself get swallowed" thing is probably exactly why; as we've pointed out, in some cases you take less damage while swallowed than you would if the thing were stomping on you.

It does suggest an amusing Murphy's Rule, though. "Cutting a hole through the side of a Purple Worm will not kill it, no matter how big of a hole you make."

Robot Bastard fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Jul 24, 2007

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink

Kojiro posted:

Also it has spell resistance out the wazoo and saves like woah.

A 20 will save, while respectable, is not insurmountable. Even the 32 spell resistance can be overcome with some luck. Is there a spell similar to enfeeble that deals int damage?

Something like that should be able to incapasitate a Tarrasque. A similar extraordinary or super-natural attack would also work, and bypass the spell resistance.

Kojiro
Aug 11, 2003

LET'S GET TO THE TOP!

Schwarzwald posted:

A 20 will save, while respectable, is not insurmountable. Even the 32 spell resistance can be overcome with some luck. Is there a spell similar to enfeeble that deals int damage?

Something like that should be able to incapasitate a Tarrasque. A similar extraordinary or super-natural attack would also work, and bypass the spell resistance.
Touch of Idiocy reduces int. But the spell won't take it below 1 int, so it wouldn't be incapacitated anyway. All it means is you can't use it as a player character :P

Pretty much if you fly it can't get you. Get your party in the air (very easy at that level) and blast the crap out of it. If it doesn't retreat, you're golden.

Cowcaster
Aug 7, 2002



What if you got a really big tarp, some giant googly eyes, and some red paint, and made up a hot sexy decoy tarrasque to distract it? WHAT THEN?

Gassire
Dec 30, 2004

"They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing."

Schwarzwald posted:

No, but I'd think more of WotC.

How about if I point out that Expeditious Retreat only applies a movement speed increase if moving is all you do in the turn, that in the chart they credit weapon focus as +2 instead of just +1 and the +2 from invisibility doesn't apply if if the creature can see you? Not to mention that over the course of of the 2 minutes the cleric will likely become shaken from the fear aura for another -2 to attack.

Gassire fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Jul 24, 2007

Soylentbits
Apr 2, 2007

im worried that theyre setting her up to be jotaros future wife or something.

Cowcaster posted:

What if you got a really big tarp, some giant googly eyes, and some red paint, and made up a hot sexy decoy tarrasque to distract it? WHAT THEN?

You end up with the worst fanfiction of all time.

Doug Lombardi
Jan 18, 2005

RiotGearEpsilon posted:

:awesome: That makes me smile! I remember back in the day, the cleric of the party bestowed his Headband of Intellect +6 on the new baron we had just rescued from the forces of evil, that he might rule wisely. Good vibes.

But a Headband of Intellect would increase his intelligence, not his wisdom. So he would still make terrible decisions, they would just be monumental in scope.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

"Ah," Ratz had said, at last, "the artiste."

Red_Mage posted:

Eh... Xykon is pretty evil, fitting it under an umbrella is kind of tough though.

As for beating the Tarrasque:

Any class with sufficient amount of money and decent AC (or some form of avoiding getting hit) should be able to win. A Psionic Artificier is ideal for this task

- Requires: lots of portable holes, a few bags of holding, dorje of hustle (or some other speed booster)
- Steps: If there is prep time, place the holes in a certain area, cover them with some form of an illusion. If there isn't proceed directly to step 4
1. Lure the Tarrasque to the holy area.
2. When the Tarrasgue sinks into the holes (they won't contain him fully, but they don't have to) lob your bags of holding into the holes.
3. The bags of holding will open an interdimensional rift banishing the lower half of the Tarrasque to the astral plane, you have 1d6 rounds before he regenerates.
4. Using your speed boost lob more portable holes on top the temporarily immobile Tarrasque, then lob more bags of holding on top of said holes.
5. Rinse, Repeat, until the Tarrasque is scattered across the Astral Plane. Assuming he regenerates there, well, thats the Astral Plane's problem.


Why am I getting flashbacks of the old "Turn bag of holding inside out, put over self and walk through walls" trick?

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Idran
Jan 13, 2005
Grimey Drawer
I want to know how the tarrasque would even sink there to begin with. Overlapping two holes wouldn't give you a bigger hole, it'd give you two separate holes of the same size, right?

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