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I am going to have roughly 60k in student loans to start paying off after next spring. About half of this is through the government, and the other half is from Sallie Mae. I know I am going to want to go the consolidation route, but I'm told to check rate changes so I can know whether to start the paperwork this year or next year. Is this really an option? I thought I was supposed to consolidate after I was finished with school. Also, I can't even find any information on rate changes, so I have no loving idea what these people are talking about.
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Sep 9, 2007 05:16
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You are correct: by federal policy you can no longer consolidate while you are on "In School" status. This means that you can't consolidate while you still have your 6 month grace period on the account. If this has already expired, and then you went back to school and are on an In School Deferment, you can consolidate. Weird, huh? Rates change every July 1st, but only for loans taken out before July 1st, 2006. Anything after that day will have 6.8% fixed. Remember that you won't be able to consolidate your private loans with your federal loans. I'll probably post whatever the rates change to next year, if this thread is still around, or I'll at least post it on my board 
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Sep 9, 2007 14:53
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So is there anything I can do to consolidate my federal loans and private loans into a single smaller payment over a longer period of time? I'm not sure I'll be able to handle two (though I suppose I would be forced to find a way). Or for that would I be forced to consolidate both into a much higher % private loan? I really just want to get out from under the thumb of Sallie Mae, as I intentionally picked a different lender but foolishly didn't research what company that lender was using.
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Sep 9, 2007 18:08
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Unfortunately, a federal lender can't consolidate your student loans and your private loans together  You could try to take out a private/personal loan to cover the cost and then payoff both totals, or you can consolidate the two amounts separately, slap the federal loans onto a deferment/forbearance for a few years, and slam the crap outta your private loans.
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Sep 10, 2007 00:32
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Hi Wiggy, I have four private student loans serviced by SLMA totalling a little over $45,000. The four loans all have different rates, the two smallest (about $7,500 a piece) are at 7.5% and 8.0%, while the $20,000 loan is at 10.0%, and the last for a little over $10,000 is at 9.25%. I'm doing pretty well since school and at my current rate will have them paid off in three years. I was wondering though, is it possible to have SLMA apply my extra monthly payment to only to a certain loan (on top of the auto-debited payment which pays the minimum for all my loans)? This was I could make sure that I am paying down the loan(s) that are costing me the most. I am sure this would be easy with any other loan servicer, but I'm wondering if such feats are in SLMA's power to do without screwing it up every month. Thanks!
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Sep 18, 2007 04:09
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If I wish to take a semester off school what do I need to do loan wise?
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Sep 19, 2007 04:36
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Wiggy Marie posted:You could try to take out a private/personal loan to cover the cost and then payoff both totals How? You can't just walk into a bank and take out an unsecured loan if you have no collateral... unless I missed something?
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Sep 19, 2007 07:06
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daggerdragon posted:How? You can't just walk into a bank and take out an unsecured loan if you have no collateral... unless I missed something? That's why you can try. It's also why you don't see many students doing this, or you'll occasionally see parents take out a loan for the kid/as a co-signer. It's not common and oftentimes it's not possible...hence, you're stuck with the consolidation programs available to a private loan (or a federal loan). Lancer383, you should be able to designate payments that way, and there may actually be a way to do so online through their payment system. I know that in ours we offer borrowers the option of making a specific amount toward each loan. Worst case scenario you would need to call them for a physical payment address and write on the check itself how you would like the payment divvied up. Hopefully it's on their website, though. I've never seen the interior so I couldn't say, but I'll ask a friend with Sallie loans. Tab8715, if you've never used your 6 month grace period before you'll use it now. If you're not back in school before the grace period ends, it will be expired on those loans. If you have private/alternative loans, some of them have grace periods and some of them don't; you'll need to ask the company about yours. If you have used your grace before, you can use another kind of forbearance/deferment to cover the interim. Check and see if you can use the Economic Hardship Deferment first; if not, you may need to settle for the Temporary Hardship Forbearance (also known as the Verbal Forbearance).
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Sep 19, 2007 12:53
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Wiggy Marie posted:... Thanks for the quick response. I'm looking forward to what you hear from your friend at SLMA. I spoke to a rep at SLMA's (outsourced) call center, and they told me that I have two options: I can mail a paper check and include with it an 8.5 x 11" paper that indicates which loan I want to apply the payment to, or to do an online "Pay Now" payment, and then after I set up the payment send them an email with a note about wanting that payment to be designated for a certain loan. I'm not crazy about either option -- I'm the type that would much rather set it up once through my online banking (or through SallieMae.com) and then forget about it, checking in on the SallieMae.com site every so often to make sure that there are no shenanigans. If there's a third option that is a bit more automated, I'd love to hear about it.
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Sep 19, 2007 16:43
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Wiggy Marie posted:Tab8715, if you've never used your 6 month grace period before you'll use it now. If you're not back in school before the grace period ends, it will be expired on those loans. If you have private/alternative loans, some of them have grace periods and some of them don't; you'll need to ask the company about yours. I am unsure if this is my situation but how exactly do those processes work? I am assuming there may be some severe consequences?
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Sep 20, 2007 04:03
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Do you have anything to say about the lending practices of:
* The person in charge at my school uses them synonymously for some reason.
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Sep 21, 2007 12:42
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So I was talking with my friend who has Sallie loans last night...and totally forgot to ask. I swear I will, Lancer383!!! Tab8715, that is a perfect example of why so many students go delinquent on their loans. There are no penaltees for using a federally generated forbearance or deferment on your federal loans. It's part and parcel of the program itself. The only "penalty" is that interest accrues and capitalizes to your principal, but if you have subsidized loans on a deferment this doesn't apply. You can also still make payments during a deferment/forbearance to cover any accruing interest if you'd like. Call your servicing agent and ask what you're eligible for. I'd go through them for you here, but to see if you qualify there's some personal information involved that I'm not gonna make you provide in a (semi)public venue Groda, I honestly haven't heard anything one way or another about any of those companies. We do some business with ASA as a guarantor, and I can't say I've heard anything bad about them that way, either. You could try checking the Better Business Bureau for stuff. The only companies I hear a ton of negative things about are Sallie Mae, Educational Direct, and Xpress. Occasionally I hear things about Chase, but mostly just personal complaints, nothing on a business level. They sued Sallie so I have to say I love them for that alone. I also hear some bad things about Direct loans (yes you, Uncle Sam), and I can say that their consolidation process used to be painful. No complaints this year, but then it wasn't a big consolidation year.
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Sep 22, 2007 21:03
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So I have done the unthinkable and in 15 months amassed a bit over $14,000 -- in short, the exact amount I owe to Sallie Mae. Do I: a) Pay it all immediately! b) Student debt is good debt!!! If b), do I: 1. Leave it in an internet savings bank and just have Sallie take it from that account directly 2. Invest it in a small Vanguard fund of some sort and have Sallie take it from there; at least my sitting money will be making more money (at some risk) Thoughts?
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Sep 28, 2007 20:33
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That is really up to you. Since you have the funds to pay it all off if you should wish, I would recommend just continuing your regular monthly installment. This will help to build your personal credit up some (more), and you can also claim the interest on your taxes each year, so there is *some* good to all of that interest. You should double your payments though, or maybe pay half in the beginning and half in the end of the month. That way you'll pay less interest over the life of the loan. But what you do depends predominantly on your personal preference. In your position, I'd use the student loan to build up my credit and also claim the interest annually, but it also never hurts to get rid of debt
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Oct 2, 2007 03:02
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A new law has been passed about student loans. I read something about it will force lenders to cut federal student loans' interest rates down to 3.4%. My consolidated loan is currently sitting at 7%. Can I get my rates reduced?
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Oct 2, 2007 22:41
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dzarc posted:A new law has been passed about student loans. I read something about it will force lenders to cut federal student loans' interest rates down to 3.4%. My consolidated loan is currently sitting at 7%. Can I get my rates reduced? This bill apparently killed a lot of consolidation deals. Many lenders either aren't taking consolidation applications right now, or aren't offering any benefits. Wiggy, do you know if this is permanent or if the lenders just need to figure out how this bill affects them before reorganizing their incentives? I feel really stupid for not getting off my rear end and doing my consolidation already.
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Oct 2, 2007 23:08
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The new bill has its ups and downs. The up is that future interest rates will be lower - this can be viewed as nothing but a good thing. This does not touch any loans that have already been taken out/consolidated. Only the new ones. And this drop is scheduled to happen by 2011 - so it probably won't drop immediately next year (though it would be nice for you guys if it did). The huge down is that it cut private lenders off, so to speak. Lenders are dropping incentives like bad habits all over the place - and unless the regulations change again, this will most likely be permanent. Not all benefits have been eliminated, and hopefully lenders will find a way to compensate. Unfortunately a lot of the ones who absorbed origination and (if applicable) default fees are eliminating this, which means you, the student, will need to watch out for this to be removed from your total disbursed before it hits the school. Which sucks and is horrible, and I don't see how it helps the student at all. Money that doesn't go to the school is money that you personally have to pay for - and yet you still have to pay the full 3500.00 back. Don't get me started. There's a ton of other behind-the-scenes changes that totally suck, but there's also a ton of good out of this bill. The loan industry needed an overhaul badly, and if nothing else this is a step in the right direction. Here's a good rundown, copied and pasted directly: • The maximum annual Pell Grant in the 2008-09 school year will go up $490 to $4,800. The scholarship, which goes to the poorest students, will reach its maximum value of $5,400 per year by 2012-13. • Interest rates on federally subsidized loans will begin to decrease in July, when the interest rate will drop from 6.8 percent to 6 percent. Interest rates will be reduced by half, to 3.4 percent, by July 1, 2011. • Annual payments for students will be capped at a percentage of their income to prevent low-paid workers from having to pay back more than they can afford. Borrowers with new and existing loans will be eligible starting July 1, 2009. • Undergraduate and graduate students who commit to teaching in public schools can receive tuition assistance of $4,000 each year, starting in the 2008-2009 school year. • Public service workers, such as firefighters, will receive loan forgiveness after 10 years of service and loan payments. People will be able to take advantage of this beginning Oct.1. Other things I know have changed: The Economic Hardship Deferment is now based on entirely different criteria and takes the number of a person's household into account. This was not done before, and is extremely important. This can only be seen as a great, great thing. The Military Deferment no longer has a time limit!!! It was previously limited to 3 years, just like the Military Forbearance. I have no idea why and it was stupid, but now it's no longer true. Huzzah for all you soldiers!!! AND parents with soldier kids who are active duty. A parent may have their loans placed on a Military Deferment if their child is active duty.
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Oct 3, 2007 01:33
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So people who already graduated just got hosed.
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Oct 3, 2007 01:41
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Kase Im Licht posted:So people who already graduated just got hosed. Pretty much. Would you like some Preparation H to soothe your burning?
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Oct 3, 2007 02:11
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I'm just not getting the sense of worship and gratitude this bill was designed for, guys. How could you not bow down before its glory? I'm done, I promise. Like I said, ups and downs. Those who came before can basically just suck it.
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Oct 3, 2007 02:50
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I don't suppose that "public service workers" thing includes social workers, does it? Because I won't have my MSW for three more years... Anyway, in 2003, when I finished my bachelor's, I consolidated all my loans (a mix of federal loans). Long story short, the interest rate I have on it, for purposes of further consolidation, is 2.8%, and the total owed is just over $19k. I did a year of graduate school, while continuing to pay interest on my consolidated loans. I now have about $18k in more student loans (Staffords only, both subsidized and unsubsidized) that are going in to repayment, because I left my loving graduate school (why yes, I am still angry at them). Those loans are sitting at 6.8%, currently. Crunching some numbers, it is looking like it would be a good idea to consolidate the new graduate school loans with my old undergraduate loans. There is no penalty for early repayment, and, honestly, that monthly payment is going to be a lot more manageable. I realize that, if I take the entire loan repayment period (20 years), I'd be paying more overall. Also, my current consolidation is with XLS (although this was the second group that my original consolidation loan was sold to). So far, I haven't had any problems with them. Obviously, if I consolidate my graduate loans separately, I could use another lender. However, would it be possible to switch if I were adding to a consolidation, as well? As I said, I haven't had any issues with them, but, if I can't get any interest incentives on the new consolidation, I would like to go with someone who would give me those.
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Oct 3, 2007 04:04
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Hello.. Quick question. I currently have 4 loans through Sallie Mea. They boil down to : Federal Education Loan Program (FFELP) Loans <5k 3.375% ~23k 3.375% Private Loans <3k 10.25% ~26k 9.75% What I'm trying to find out is how to get these private loans down to a reasonable interest rate. Looking online, through the NTHEA/Wells Fargo (from the links in the OP) I've got the best offered interest rate for Private loans. When speaking with Sallie Mea, I've been told by multiple people that for not having a co-signer, my loans are at a very low rate. This is both hard to believe and saddening. So basically, I'm trying to find out how can I get these interest rates down around the Federal loans?
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Oct 3, 2007 15:26
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A couple questions about this new bill. I am a lawyer working at a local government agency that represents abused and neglected kids in court. We don't get paid very much. Somebody circulated this bill around to my co-workers and I, and we were all pretty excited about it, particularly the "public service workers 10 years and you're out" portion. My question is whether we even qualify for this, being graduates already. My other question is whether this means anything to me at all, even if we do qualify, since I consolidated my federal loans with my private lender, Access Group. Oh, one more question. I am actually very likely going into the military next year. Let's say I like it and decide to stay in 20 years and then "retire". Does that mean that I could basically defer my loans for 20 years? Even from the private lender? Could my wife, as well, being a military spouse? Though, even if I could, I'm not quite sure I'd want to do that. Anyway, thanks much.
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Oct 3, 2007 18:57
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I graduated but never consolidated by Stafford loan. Do the bill benefits have any effect on me, or am I stuck with my 7.25%?
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Oct 3, 2007 22:52
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I'll make this short and simple. I'm going for an associates degree for 2 years, the total cost of my education will be just over 17,000. this year will be a little over 11,000 and the rest will be next year. i'm 22, make about $15,000 a year and have $500 rent, $250 insurance, and get about $500 a month from my family to help me for the time being. I was adopted when I was 3 by my grandparents, one of them passed away so I have 1 legal gaurdian who is now just over 70. she has $35,000 in credit card debt( roughly ) $60,000 income, and no morgate because she has a reverse morgate so she makes no payments. however, she doesn't have any equity. how the gently caress am I going to pay for school? I am registered and start oct 15. I go tomorow to find out about financial aide (i already did my FAFSA thing i'm just waiting for my pin ) oh, and I have horrible credit
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Oct 4, 2007 22:34
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Wench, the good news: Public service job definition: a full-time job in public emergency management, government, public safety, public law enforcement, public health, public education, public early childhood education, public child care, social work in a public child or family service agency, public services for individuals with disabilities, public services for the elderly, public interest legal services (including prosecution or public defense), public library services, public school library sciences, or other public school-based services or teaching as a full-time faculty member of a Tribal College or University. The bad news: The Department of Education has created a loan forgiveness program for employees who work in the public sector. It requires that the borrowers must make 120 monthly payments on a standard, income-based or income contingent repayment plan. All 120 payments must be made after 10/1/2007 and currently only Direct Loans offer this type of repayment program. You must be a Direct loans borrower for this to apply, currently. We are all hoping and praying that this will change, but there's no telling right now. If you have additional federal education debt to consolidate, you may consolidate with any lender of your choice. This, thankfully, has not yet changed. I honestly do not know which lenders are still offering benefits that are worthwhile; as always, my recommendation is to shop 'til you drop! Simpletuition.com should help a ton...assuming it's been updated, haha. deong, the only way to lower those rates (that I personally am aware of) is to try and take out a personal loan with a lower rate and use it to pay off those loans. This is iffy and not guaranteed (as another goon found out a bit earlier in the thread). Honestly, that's the only option you have that I'm aware of. If there is another option and someone reading this knows of it, please don't hesitate to post about it!!! I'm learning new things every day too! PMan_, check above for the definition of public service employees. God willing they will open this up to the FFELP program instead of just Direct, but who knows. According to the new bill, yes, if you are active duty you may defer your payments for as long as you need to. But only you may do this, no one else (including your wife). Jasen, you would need to consolidate with a lender with benefits. However I would recommend holding off for now - the rates are going to start lowering over the next few years (at least that's what they've told us). BOOTY PIRATE, what did financial aid tell you?
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Oct 9, 2007 02:13
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Wiggy, any idea if NTHEA will offer any benefits on their loans? Their website still lists a 1% interest rate reduction, but I assume they just haven't updated, since I've only found one lender still offering any benefits at all (Loanster, .5 reduction after 36 months), so 1% seems a little too good to be true right now. edit: Nevermind, just gave them a call, and those benefits are still accurate through the end of the year. Guess I'm going with them. No idea why they're maintaining incentives while everyone else is dropping them. Kase Im Licht fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Oct 9, 2007 |
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Oct 9, 2007 21:20
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Kase Im Licht posted:No idea why they're maintaining incentives while everyone else is dropping them. Because they're awesome. Honestly I feel that it's because NTHEA generally has a surplus at the end of the year, so they won't suffer nearly as much as other lenders. Plus, they're purely non-profit (hence the surplus). They're exempt from a few of the new hard-core laws. not many, but a few. This goes for anyone else who's non-profit; they may be clinging to their benefits as much as possible for as long as possible.
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Oct 10, 2007 00:55
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I filed my FAFSA this summer and recieved grants and loan possibilities. I accepted just the aid - hey, free money, yay - but declined the loans. My circumstances have changed now and I need at the very least the subsidized federal loan, but it seems locked out. I am screwed for the spring semester?
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Oct 10, 2007 03:31
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ail posted:I filed my FAFSA this summer and recieved grants and loan possibilities. I accepted just the aid - hey, free money, yay - but declined the loans. My circumstances have changed now and I need at the very least the subsidized federal loan, but it seems locked out. I am screwed for the spring semester? That is really dependent upon what your financial aid office tells you. The lender has nothing at all to do with acceptance of funds or sending the certification. I know that this new bills have everyone crazed. I have a ton of articles/sources that I'm planning on using to write about it, I swear. I just haven't had the time to sit down and think about it and make it all pretty. I've also got a couple of things to add to my OP - also pending on my ability to sit down and think. I haven't forgotten you!!!
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Oct 11, 2007 02:02
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I am a junior in university in the state of florida. I have no credit, my parents have bad credit, and I will graduate in 2 years. I am looking about going to law school (it is pretty cheap in florida) but I know I am going to have to get loans. Is there anything I can do now to help my chances in the future for law school loans? Do law students usually need private loans and if so who do you recommend? EDIT: I will also graduate from undergrad debt free as I am on scholarship, prepay, and working part time.
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Oct 11, 2007 05:41
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So I mismanaged my finances this year and I need $6k stat. The thing is that I've already maxed out my Stafford the year, so I'm not sure what my options are here. I'm going into law school next year too, so I don't want to dip into private loans too much at the moment. What can I do? I was thinking I could try to take out NJCLASS again, but I took NJCLASS out in the summer and I'm not sure if they'd offer me more now, plus I need something that would disburse relatively fast.
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Oct 11, 2007 13:08
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I've got about $22000 in MEFA alternative student loans (~8%). Would it be worth doing some kind of consolidation?
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Oct 11, 2007 16:53
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Genocide, it depends on what kind of loans you're talking about. Federal loans don't care about your or your parent's credit; only income. So there's not anything in particular you can do to increase your chances of getting them - chances are that as a las student you'll be deemed eligible. Private loans are their own beast. If you have any way to do so, start building your credit now, right now. If you have already started, continue doing a good job of it. Most kids I've seen are able to take out their own private loans once they hit that level. Yes, the interest rate will still be high no matter what (a lot of times the rate starts lower, then changes to the higher rate in subsequent years closer to repayment). yoonix, the NJCLASS is a private loan. If you must use one, use the NJCLASS. Otherwise you're stuck shopping around for another kind of alt loan. Obviously a lower fixed rate is superior! As an NJCLASS user, what do you think of the program? I don't deal with it personally, so your insight may help some NJ kids reading the thread. fungi^2, meh, it really depends on how you're able to handle the payments as they are. If you don't consolidate and pay above your regular monthly installment, you'll pay them off faster, even faster than if you consolidated and paid above the monthly amount due. Your biggest incentive to consolidate is to lower your monthly payments. Sidenote: for all those who are somewhat older and have private loans, your absolute best option is to take out a person private loan and pay them off that way instead of doing a private loan consolidation. You'll pay less with a lower interest rate.
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Oct 12, 2007 23:08
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Wiggy Marie posted:Private loans are their own beast. If you have any way to do so, start building your credit now, right now. If you have already started, continue doing a good job of it. Most kids I've seen are able to take out their own private loans once they hit that level. Yes, the interest rate will still be high no matter what (a lot of times the rate starts lower, then changes to the higher rate in subsequent years closer to repayment). I know this will probably vary by company, but is there a minimum credit score range where one has a better chance of being approved for a private student loan without a cosigner? I have not needed loans to pay for my previous few years of school but since I am transferring to a more expensive university next fall, I will need to apply for private student loans due to federal loans not being enough cover it all. Thanks to my family being full of idiots, there is no one who would be able to cosign when I need it next year, so I am pretty much on my own. When I looked at some loan sites earlier this year, several specified that they allow people with good credit to apply without a cosigner, but no one specifies what "good credit" means to them. My credit is decent (675 range with all 3 bureaus) and should be better by the time next spring rolls around since I will be using my tax refund to pay down a lot of my current credit card debt. Will I have a good chance of being able to get a private loan on my own with no cosigner?
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Oct 13, 2007 03:39
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The most strict one that I've seen put the minimum credit score at 620, but they still required a cosigner a lot of the time. The only way to find out is to apply and see what they say. If your score is above 700, normally you'll be fine on your own.
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Oct 14, 2007 04:12
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Wiggy Marie posted:yoonix, the NJCLASS is a private loan. If you must use one, use the NJCLASS. Otherwise you're stuck shopping around for another kind of alt loan. Obviously a lower fixed rate is superior! Guess I'll try for another NJCLASS, thanks! I've never had any issues with them. The interest rate is reasonable, as are the disbursement times. Obviously it's not nearly as good as Stafford, but it's better than a bank loan.
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Oct 16, 2007 01:15
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I went to school for 5 (really 4) quarters, then stopped. My parents paid for a plus loan, and I have a stafford loan I have since been (January 07) and will continue to be completely independent from my parents. I might have hosed my credit by not going to school and forgetting to actually cancel my classes 5th quarter, and then having money refused that was covered by my stafford loan. That quarters money went to collections, which I just found out about. Anyways since January I pretty much hosed around and lived off almost nothing for a while. I have started working regularly for a couple months here (9.50 hr, probable prevailing wage job at 27/hr for a few weeks here). I've been doing random side jobs also. Maybe I'll have 5-8k total income this year? Either way all this money is going in and out as listed below: My stafford loan (~3.6k) is slowly being paid off. First comes living expenses. All the rest of my money will go for paying a couple things I owe (collections first (1k), then car, then sister for 5 months of cellphone bills), then my stafford loan. I am considering getting back into a local community college to get an AA at least, but money is my first concern. This December I will turn 21. A family friend said I should be able to apply for aid again this January (when I am 21) as an independent, but the OP seems to say otherwise. Will I be eligible for any free money? When would be the best time to apply for FASFA again? I could go back spring quarter - would waiting for fall help/hinder me as far as aid goes? Any advice would be appreciated. p.s. I'm going to go skim over that other thread about credit building now
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Oct 16, 2007 02:05
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I'm 20 going on 21 and my credit report from the three bureaus are: 715 721 728 I only have a few thousand from the normal (perkins?) loans, that are set to start being paid off after I graduate. Then my dad pays for my school and I pay him a couple thousand when I work over the summer. I also currently have a loan out from prosper.com if you've heard of that, and would like to use my what I believe to be stunning credit for a 20 year old. I've heard of student loans that just cut you a check, and I kind of wanted to consolidate my debt using just myself as a signer since I have a not so great interest rate as of right now. Do you have any suggestions? I don't want to be turned down, as I'm under the impression that hurts your credit score applying more and more times. Thanks a lot AsTheCrowFlys fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Oct 17, 2007 |
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Oct 17, 2007 05:51
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| # ? May 11, 2024 21:17 |
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Wiggy Marie posted:• Public service workers, such as firefighters, will receive loan forgiveness after 10 years of service and loan payments. People will be able to take advantage of this beginning Oct.1. Have you read the legislation on this? It's such bullshit. It's supposed to be a milksop thrown to calls for a LRAP for public interest lawyers, but the legislation calls for *10* years repayment ONLY under the DIRECT consolidation program. That means if you've been repaying for 10 years FFELP, too bad, so sad, you would have to re-consolidate under DIRECT (how I'm not sure, take out new loans?) and make payments for 10 years. How this is supposed to encourage people to go into public service work, I'm not sure. Yeah the loan forgiveness will be nice, but how will they afford to eat repaying for those 10 years on public employee wages? Raskolnikov2089 fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Oct 22, 2007 |
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Oct 21, 2007 20:02
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