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Karma Guard posted:They believe that all those gods are really just Epic level PCs. Or something. Isn't this actually literally true in a couple of cases?
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Oct 20, 2007 08:40
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Vecna and St. Cuthbert in Greyhawk, Mystra, Cyric, and Kelemvor in FR. That's all I can think of at the moment.
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Oct 20, 2007 09:02
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This last comic was one of the best he's ever done, its in the top 5.
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Oct 20, 2007 09:29
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Karma Guard posted:There's a whole faction of people in Sigil who are basically Atheists (the Athar?). They believe that all those gods are really just Epic level PCs. Or something. They're not atheist they're agnostic. They know the gods exist they just don't believe they're worthy of worship. It's kind of impossible to be an atheist in Planescape, walking to the farmers market in Sigil you'll probably bump into one or two minor gods.
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Oct 20, 2007 11:27
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Halloween Jack posted:Vecna and St. Cuthbert in Greyhawk, Mystra, Cyric, and Kelemvor in FR. That's all I can think of at the moment. Zagig Yragerne aka Zagyg, in Greyhawk, also ascended to Godhood, and went about it the hard way. Nothing like having to capture nine different demi-gods of the nine different alignments to prove your neutrality.
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Oct 20, 2007 13:26
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Altamir posted:Zagig Yragerne aka Zagyg, in Greyhawk, also ascended to Godhood, and went about it the hard way. Nothing like having to capture nine different demi-gods of the nine different alignments to prove your neutrality. Not just demigods; I believe one of them was Heironeous.
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Oct 20, 2007 13:58
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Halloween Jack posted:Roy says it wasn't his job "to watch the grown-up," implying that the death was indeed the result of something Eugene was doing. I'm not so sure about that. The only action Roy specifically attributes to his dad is shushing Roy. It's possible that the accident was caused by a grown-up other than Eugene, and Eugene just didn't stop it or listen to Roy's concerns about safety.
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Oct 20, 2007 15:23
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Idran posted:Not just demigods; I believe one of them was Heironeous. I thought one was Iuz.
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Oct 20, 2007 16:44
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Vanadium posted:There is also the various barrable wizard schools and dozens of prestige classes with their own spelllike abilities, and druids who do not need to worship a concrete deity to cast divine spells, and psionics, and probably a bunch of gimmicks I am not even aware of that also have access to different sets of spells. For all my atheist character would know, clerics just tap into yet another non-sentient extraplanar energy source that just happens to manifest itself through other spells than arcane magic. Not to mention that you can be an atheist cleric. I did that in a Ravenloft campaign. I can't remember the name of it, but there's a whole church based around the idea that the Gods aren't real and that anyone can do what those so-called "faithful" can, and since Belief Makes Right, they actually can do it. It's pretty awesome, especially since there was a cleric of the Morninglord in the party.
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Oct 20, 2007 17:31
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Karma Guard posted:There's a whole faction of people in Sigil who are basically Atheists (the Athar?). They believe that all those gods are really just Epic level PCs. Or something.
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Oct 20, 2007 17:38
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Halloween Jack posted:Vecna and St. Cuthbert in Greyhawk, Mystra, Cyric, and Kelemvor in FR. That's all I can think of at the moment. The Red Knight in FR.
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Oct 20, 2007 18:33
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Karma Guard posted:There's a whole faction of people in Sigil who are basically Atheists (the Athar?). They believe that all those gods are really just Epic level PCs. Or something. That is actually, and I already regret that I am about to type this seriously, one of the most fascinating things that Dungeons & Dragons in general has introduced to the idea of divinity. They occasionally trace the exploits of their deities back to a time when they were mortals, making one wonder just exactly at what point it becomes acceptable to start worshipping someone just because that person has gained a sufficient amount of power. No, Firefox, "worshipping" is not loving misspelled.
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Oct 20, 2007 20:37
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Eckertmania posted:I thought one was Iuz. Iuz is a demigod, but yep. He was actually held in Castle Greyhawk for about a century after that, until Mordenkainen arranged things to have him "accidentally" released, for the sake of upholding the balance on Oerth. And if we're naming gods that are technically Epic Level PCs, there's also Murlynd, Keoghtom, Heward, and Kelanen in Greyhawk. Murlynd's one of my favorites, a world-hopping cowboy, paladin-mage, and god of inventions. And also he created an endless food spoon for some reason. Used to pop back and forth between Oerth, Boot Hill, and I think Gamma World and Top Secret back in the original 1e days. St. Cuthbert is a true god, though. Or, rather, logically he would have been a mortal at some time from the whole Saint part of his name, but it was so far back in history that I've never seen a solid reference to it, so for all intents and purposes nowadays he is a full outright god. (Yeah, he's named after an actual real-life saint, but in terms of his Oerthian incarnation he's been divine for at least a thousand years or so.)
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Oct 20, 2007 21:15
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Halloween Jack posted:Vecna and St. Cuthbert in Greyhawk, Mystra, Cyric, and Kelemvor in FR. That's all I can think of at the moment. Additionally, Velsharoon, Myrkul, Torm and Bhaal.
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Oct 21, 2007 09:16
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Chem-Comando posted:Additionally, Velsharoon, Myrkul, Torm and Bhaal. And Cyric. Although he was raised to the power of a god rather than actually accumulating power, I guess. Could a PC surpass the power of Ao, the overgod? Or is Ao only considered a god in Forgotten Realms? It's a little confusing if that's the case, having a single overarching supergod that somehow only covers one plane of existance. But I don't understand being an Atheist in a D&D world either - if I went to a church in reality and the Vicar was casting healing spells and summoning divine hammers I would probably decide gods were real. I understand wizards and the like do it, but there are no wizards (at least in FR) that can heal the sick. Taear fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Oct 22, 2007 |
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Oct 22, 2007 00:27
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Taear posted:But I don't understand being an Atheist in a D&D world either - if I went to a church in reality and the Vicar was casting healing spells and summoning divine hammers I would probably decide gods were real. I understand wizards and the like do it, but there are no wizards (at least in FR) that can heal the sick. Druids can. And even if not, so what? So they are capable of using different spells than wizards. How does that prove that gods exist?
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Oct 22, 2007 01:00
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Taear posted:Could a PC surpass the power of Ao, the overgod? Or is Ao only considered a god in Forgotten Realms? It's a little confusing if that's the case, having a single overarching supergod that somehow only covers one plane of existance. I think Ao has a divine rank of 25, and there isn't a whole lot that's stronger than that. Theoretically (  ) though, theres no reason why not. Just make sure your PC can cast 9th level spells and is immortal. Then build your own plane of existence, build some creatures to populate it, and toss a comet at them every so often to keep them faithful. It's easy going from then on out.Should only take some 100,000 years.
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Oct 22, 2007 02:23
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Vanadium posted:Druids can. And even if not, so what? So they are capable of using different spells than wizards. How does that prove that gods exist? Druids are required to worship a god in forgotten realms though, a god with nature domains if I remember correctly. Hooray for Malarites!
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Oct 22, 2007 03:10
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Vanadium posted:Druids can. And even if not, so what? So they are capable of using different spells than wizards. How does that prove that gods exist? Because during the Time of Troubles, there was no clerical magic. Therefore without the gods you cannot heal the sick. Seems pretty logical to me, honestly. The gods got incarnated as humans and Divine Magic went away. The gods went back to being gods, and it came back. Therefore gods exist.
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Oct 22, 2007 10:59
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My Ranger can cast a couple of heal spells, she doesn't worship crap. Or did the time of troubles effect them too? In any event, I guess I'd better go see a psychometabolist.
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Oct 22, 2007 15:06
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And that logic works perfectly for the Forgotten Realms, but remember that the Realms are hardly the only DnD world. Proving to your average Ravenlofter or home-brewed campaigner that the Gods exist could be much more difficult.
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Oct 22, 2007 15:16
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bgaesop posted:And that logic works perfectly for the Forgotten Realms, but remember that the Realms are hardly the only DnD world. Ha, tell that to Wizards of the coast please.
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Oct 22, 2007 16:13
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greatn posted:Ha, tell that to Wizards of the coast please. 
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Oct 22, 2007 17:52
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Jonked posted:EBERRON IS THE ONE TRUE SETTING! They took back the license for Dragonlance, for some reason. I hope that's a good sign.
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Oct 22, 2007 18:02
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Pfft. Actual settings. Homebrew is the way to go. Premade settings is dildoes. What? I had a lot of fun making my gaming world.. 
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Oct 22, 2007 18:05
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Well, we do Planescape, but the majority of places we go are homebrew.
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Oct 22, 2007 18:53
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I'm a big fan of Ravenloft, not the biggest fan of the way White Wolf handled it, but a big fan of the idea. I homebrew it for a RL game I run. Travel through the mists and trade between darklords? yeah, not happening.
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Oct 22, 2007 19:21
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terminal mehmet posted:They took back the license for Dragonlance, for some reason. I hope that's a good sign. What does this mean? Took back the license? Oh, I suppose they just must have licensed it out to someone, unbeknownst to me, and are now going to work with it again. When did that happen?
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Oct 22, 2007 20:02
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Quarex posted:What does this mean? Took back the license? Oh, I suppose they just must have licensed it out to someone, unbeknownst to me, and are now going to work with it again. When did that happen? Also they released Expedition to Castle Ravenloft as a new adventure, as God intended, not a full blown campaign setting.
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Oct 22, 2007 20:21
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Schwarzwald posted:I think Ao has a divine rank of 25, and there isn't a whole lot that's stronger than that. Theoretically ( Nobody tell me that some newfangled book actually lists his stats, please! 
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Oct 22, 2007 22:03
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Someone once told me that Ao (and the High God in Dragonlance) are just representations of the DM. I'm cool with that.
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Oct 22, 2007 22:04
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Volga Boatman posted:I'm pretty sure that Ao is actually omnipotent and can strip even greater powers (in realmspace) of their powers by willing it so, so it'd be pretty silly to have existing stats for him. Wasn't it alluded to that Ao is actually working for an even more powerful god in one of the lovely novels I read as a kid? Most likely immediately after Kelemvor was raised to godhood.
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Oct 22, 2007 22:18
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greatn posted:My Ranger can cast a couple of heal spells, she doesn't worship crap. Or did the time of troubles effect them too? And your ranger cannot cast a goddamn thing unless she worships a nature god. All casters of divine spells in forgotten realms require a god to grant them, mister. That includes druids and rangers  I have no idea how I remember this dumb poo poo though.
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Oct 22, 2007 22:20
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Chem-Comando posted:Wasn't it alluded to that Ao is actually working for an even more powerful god in one of the lovely novels I read as a kid? Most likely immediately after Kelemvor was raised to godhood.
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Oct 22, 2007 22:34
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Chem-Comando posted:Wasn't it alluded to that Ao is actually working for an even more powerful god in one of the lovely novels I read as a kid? Most likely immediately after Kelemvor was raised to godhood. That was at the end of The Avatar Trilogy.
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Oct 22, 2007 23:06
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Taear posted:Because during the Time of Troubles, there was no clerical magic. Therefore without the gods you cannot heal the sick. Correlation =/= causation 
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Oct 23, 2007 01:00
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Chem-Comando posted:And your ranger cannot cast a goddamn thing unless she worships a nature god. All casters of divine spells in forgotten realms require a god to grant them, mister. That includes druids and rangers My ranger lives on loving Athas, ain't no gods there.
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Oct 23, 2007 01:12
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I'm half sorry that I said anything, and half pleased that I set off the latest bout of nerd debate in this thread.
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Oct 23, 2007 01:44
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greatn posted:My ranger lives on loving Athas, ain't no gods there.
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Oct 23, 2007 02:29
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New strip up.
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Oct 23, 2007 03:05
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