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LooseChanj posted:I think where Vetinari is concerned, *everyone* is protoge material. But my main logic here is that Vimes would be so reluctant a politician he'd actually be pretty good at it. Sort of the inverse of Douglas Adams "anyone who wants power shouldn't be allowed to have it". Plus he's the kind of bastard who won't be able to retire and will end up working till the day he dies. I have a somewhat different take. I think he'd get too frustrated with the pragmatic, back-stabbing reality of being leader of the city. Vimes and von Lipwig both have their parts to play, but they need to be in the right role. Vimes is ideally positioned, and I think he'd be happier, and more effective, in his current role, than as Patrician. von Lipwig's ability to pull the wool over peoples eyes, and to influence them so artfully that even when they know they are being played they often don't mind, seems ever more valuable in the increasingly 'open' (in terms of publicity, information exchange, and so forth) society in the city. If Vimes were Patrician, can you imagine the continual poo poo-storms there would be between him and, for example, the free press?  Edit: I'm not saying he would be a *bad* leader, as such - he'd be a principled leader, a strong, consistent one, but right here and now (if you will) he is not the right man for the job - he isn't a *politician*, and the fact is the city does need a good politician (in addition to other qualities) in charge. von Lipwig is the better fit. magimix fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Jun 9, 2008 |
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Jun 9, 2008 16:42
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magimix posted:If Vimes were Patrician, can you imagine the continual poo poo-storms there would be between him and, for example, the free press? Yes, and they're only a further confirmation that he's the right man for the job, at least in terms of us readers. 
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Jun 9, 2008 16:50
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LooseChanj posted:Yes, and they're only a further confirmation that he's the right man for the job, at least in terms of us readers. Oh, I totally agree it would make for excellent reading  But as you know, my edit was written as if we were two members of, say, the Assassin's guild, discussing the future governance of the city, over Port and Cigars  
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Jun 9, 2008 16:59
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magimix posted:But as you know, my edit was written as if we were two members of, say, the Assassin's guild, discussing the future governance of the city, over Port and Cigars Yes, what works when you're on the inside is so rarely what amuses those on the outside.
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Jun 9, 2008 17:08
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Capn_Marrrrk posted:I recall reading somewhere that Lancre is based on the region (and it's size) where Pterry grew up, but with more cliffs. Lancre is Lancashire. Or at least I always assumed it was. Pratchett was born and raised in Buckinghamshire though, so I guess it might not be. I think the witches are something very very english and it's hard for readers from other countries to relate to them. I was brought up in a rural town in Derbyshire and every single archetype from the novels is there. It's like reading your childhood, but with magic. I've also been floored by the revelation that Llamedos is Sod em all backwards. It just seemed so authentically welsh that I never even thought about it. Although I can't really think of people to play most of the discworld characters I can say without a doubt that I wouldn't want any Americans doing it. It's just not right.
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Jun 10, 2008 06:18
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magimix posted:I have a somewhat different take. I think he'd get too frustrated with the pragmatic, back-stabbing reality of being leader of the city. Vimes and von Lipwig both have their parts to play, but they need to be in the right role. Vimes is ideally positioned, and I think he'd be happier, and more effective, in his current role, than as Patrician. The only problem with Moist is his pathological need for adrenaline. Not that him accidentally conning A-M into starting the first Disc World War or its equivalent at a Patrician danger level doesn't present some interesting storyline possibilities. Vimes would resign in disgust to track down who actually shot Archduke Franz Ferdinand, arrest the culprit, and browbeat each country's government into a peace treaty before he'd let any of the action get rolling.
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Jun 10, 2008 06:31
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ThaGhettoJew posted:Vimes would resign in disgust to track down who actually shot Archduke Franz Ferdinand, arrest the culprit, and browbeat each country's government into a peace treaty before he'd let any of the action get rolling. Like... Jingo?
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Jun 14, 2008 02:31
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The_Doctor posted:Like... Jingo? Um, yeah. Yeah, but with more explosions or something. After Vimes finishes, everyone nervously looks around and finds something peaceful to do somewhere else. After Moist finishes, something big is smoldering wreck and society has to radically reorder itself around a new con that has improbably come true. Jingo, Small Gods, Thud!, Monstrous Regiment... He might have touched on this theme before.
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Jun 16, 2008 02:06
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Taear posted:Lancre is Lancashire. Or at least I always assumed it was. Pratchett was born and raised in Buckinghamshire though, so I guess it might not be. I think the witches are something very very english and it's hard for readers from other countries to relate to them. I was brought up in a rural town in Derbyshire and every single archetype from the novels is there. It's like reading your childhood, but with magic. I'd argue that. Growing up in rural midwestern America, I relate to the witches just fine. Small town life isn't that different here, after all. 
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Jun 16, 2008 05:57
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Liquid Communism posted:I'd argue that. Growing up in rural midwestern America, I relate to the witches just fine. Small town life isn't that different here, after all. I think this is mostly true with perhaps one exception: you don't really understand the crucial and central importance of tea, and why putting the kettle on is the correct response to any crisis. 
shadok fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jun 18, 2008 |
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Jun 18, 2008 23:45
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How long does it usually take for a new discworld to show up in mass market paperback?
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Jun 19, 2008 16:37
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LooseChanj posted:How long does it usually take for a new discworld to show up in mass market paperback? Typically about nine months.
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Jun 19, 2008 18:26
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shadok posted:Typically about nine months. How long ago did Making Money come out? I don't really plan on buying the hardcover, but I'm up to Night Watch and I'm nearly caught up on discworld.
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Jun 19, 2008 18:43
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LooseChanj posted:How long ago did Making Money come out? I don't really plan on buying the hardcover, but I'm up to Night Watch and I'm nearly caught up on discworld. September/October last year. The paperback just came out.
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Jun 19, 2008 19:45
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I wonder, has there been any word yet as to which holiday the Going Postal tv movie will be shown on? All I've been able to find is a vague 2009.
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Jun 21, 2008 11:43
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Emerson Cod posted:I wonder, has there been any word yet as to which holiday the Going Postal tv movie will be shown on? All I've been able to find is a vague 2009. Probably Easter, as that is when the last two have both been aired.
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Jun 21, 2008 17:32
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Dead Alice posted:Probably Easter, as that is when the last two have both been aired. I thought Hogfather aired around Christmas? But yeah, I guess Easter makes sense. I suppose I was hoping for it to be a New Years surprise.
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Jun 21, 2008 18:31
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How did the other two fare? I'm hoping Going Postal will be a good watch.
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Jun 21, 2008 23:57
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Emerson Cod posted:I thought Hogfather aired around Christmas? But yeah, I guess Easter makes sense. I suppose I was hoping for it to be a New Years surprise. You're right, it was christmas for Hogfather, but it was easter here by the time it filtered through the  to me.
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Jun 22, 2008 04:58
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Tain posted:How did the other two fare? I'm hoping Going Postal will be a good watch. Hogfather was a really close adaption of the book and had pretty decent effects for a made for TV production. The main complaint I've heard about Hogfather is accent the actor who plays Teatime used. I haven't see Color of Magic yet but the main thing I remember people bitching about was the Patricians voice. Apparently he speaks with a slight lisp which is an homage to the way Pratchett speaks but some people disliked it.
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Jun 22, 2008 06:40
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Hogfather's awesome, my only criticism was the first part is dead slow (not a problem for me as I loved taking it all in, but it is a flaw of the film). Colour of Magic isn't very good by virtue of those two books being very light on serious plot. For the film production, they stripped back on all the high fantasy parodies and dumbed it down to the basic sequence of events, which, truth be told, wasn't very interesting. David Jason won me over as Rincewind, though, and Sean Astin as Twoflower was similarly brilliant.
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Jun 23, 2008 09:17
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I found this column written by Terry Pratchett via Neil Gaiman's blog. It's actually a pretty touching piece about still finding that sense of higher order and peace without believing in God. He only mentions Alzheimer's briefly, but you can still get a sense that he has accepted it while still holding onto the hope that a cure will be found. Link to article Terry Pratchett in the Daily Mail posted:There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist. That articulates my position and (lack of) belief almost perfectly. The guy can string a hell of a sentence together. edit: This was the headline and subtitle that Daily Mail used. It's like they didn't even read the article  : quote:I create gods all the time - now I think one might exist, says fantasy author Terry Pratchett
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Jun 27, 2008 16:17
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MajorMajor posted:
You know it's that kind of poo poo that pisses me off. I think they may have read it, or skimmed it at least, but didn't understand it. I wonder how people like this can get a job writing professionally when they hardly pay any attention to detail. The article was fantastic. The world needs more Pterrys. Or should that be Pterries. Ah gently caress it.
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Jun 27, 2008 18:42
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quote:I create gods all the time - now I think one might exist, says fantasy author Terry Pratchett  That pissed me off so badly. What the christ Daily Mail?! 
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Jun 29, 2008 12:14
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Moist von Lipwig posted:
The Daily Mail does and has done a lot worse than misquoting Terry, but that typifies their editorial style neatly.
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Jul 1, 2008 11:45
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In the middle of Night Watch right now, and I think this may actually the funniest discworld novel I've read. Even if it does center around an absurd sci-fi cliche.
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Jul 1, 2008 12:21
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LooseChanj posted:In the middle of Night Watch right now, and I think this may actually the funniest discworld novel I've read. Even if it does center around an absurd sci-fi cliche. Is there any Discworld book that isn't at least partly based around a cliché? That's half the fun.
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Jul 1, 2008 21:59
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Liquid Communism posted:I'd argue that. Growing up in rural midwestern America, I relate to the witches just fine. Small town life isn't that different here, after all. Having grown up in Lancashire I'd say you're right but also wrong. Witch mythology is particularly heavy there, even the public footpaths through the fields and hills (and even bus companies) have little witches pointing the way. That said, it's not *all* Lancashire, while it's rather hilly it's hardly mountainous until you get to the Pennines, and a whole lot of other references don't directly apply. If anything I'd say it's an amalgamation of hilly village life set in Lancashire history which will no doubt find parallels everywhere. Isn't that what most Pratchett locations are all about? magimix posted:I have a somewhat different take. I think he'd get too frustrated with the pragmatic, back-stabbing reality of being leader of the city. Vimes and von Lipwig both have their parts to play, but they need to be in the right role. Vimes is ideally positioned, and I think he'd be happier, and more effective, in his current role, than as Patrician. From past experience I'd say Vimes can be placed into a lot of roles in which you wouldn't expect him to fit. He started out as a street-level bobby desperate to avoid doing any work, and now he's Commander of a rather significant force and a Duke. It seems that whenever Pratchett hits us with another Vimes upgrade at the end of a book, I think "What? That doesn't sound very Vimesey", only to find out it works fine. I wouldn't be especially surprised if he wound up replacing Vetinari. "Oh and you're the new Patrician" is exactly the kind of surprise he likes hitting Vimes with. Besides, there already *have* been poo poo-storms between Vimes and the free press, wouldn't be a massive change.
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Jul 11, 2008 12:41
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Arachnamus posted:I wouldn't be especially surprised if he wound up replacing Vetinari. "Oh and you're the new Patrician" is exactly the kind of surprise he likes hitting Vimes with. I can see it now, Vimes, as his fisrt act as Patrician, reinstates Vetinari as Patrician 
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Jul 12, 2008 21:58
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Moist von Lipwig posted:I can see it now, Vimes, as his fisrt act as Patrician, reinstates Vetinari as Patrician Thats exactly what you would say though isn't it, seeing as you're the next man for the job 
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Jul 12, 2008 22:34
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Bah, the reluctant successor will be King Carrot I and you all know it.
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Jul 12, 2008 23:14
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Entropic posted:Bah, the reluctant successor will be King Carrot I and you all know it. King who?
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Jul 12, 2008 23:33
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Entropic posted:Bah, the reluctant successor will be King Carrot I and you all know it. It does seem that any of the main contenders could be classed as "reluctant".
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Jul 13, 2008 18:40
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withak posted:I think Lancre is just generic British-Isle hillbilly with no particular cultural cultural origin. I am deeply saddened about Pterry's diagnosis of Alzheimers. God. Such a young man. Moist von Lipwig posted:That's it Goons, we're curing this ourselves. The average 'normal' progression from diagnosis to death is around 7 years for in Alzheimer's Disease, but can - exceptionally - be up to 20 years. Say a few prayers. Zodiac_Mindwack fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Jul 14, 2008 |
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Jul 14, 2008 00:10
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LooseChanj posted:King who? The 7 foot guy with the strawberry birthmark, a sword that can cut through anything, and is universally loved by all in Ankh-Morpork, who then chooses to be a copper because he wants everyone to follow the law 'because it's the law' rather than 'because they like him' is a piss take of every 'much loved' king in a fantasy story. Also, when Vimes is made a Duke Carrot is there, and everyone knows, but says nothing as not to upset the status quo
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Jul 14, 2008 10:17
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ibroxmassive posted:Also, when Vimes is made a Duke Carrot is there, and everyone knows, but says nothing as not to upset the status quo Oh, I know who Carrot is. I just didn't know he was the rightful heir to A-M's throne. And neither does anyone else. 
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Jul 14, 2008 13:22
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LooseChanj posted:Oh, I know who Carrot is. I just didn't know he was the rightful heir to A-M's throne. And neither does anyone else.
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Jul 14, 2008 19:11
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machine gun wedgie posted:I think you'll find that "everyone" knows in A-M And I think you'll find that no one ever admits it.
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Jul 14, 2008 20:02
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So far I think the list is; Veternari Angua Vimes Sybil ('Cos she knows everything Vimes does, even if he doesn't tell her) Fred Colon (In Men at Arms he pontificates about who would want a really sharp sword) Carrot Carrots Dad (Sending him off to find his fortune) Drumknott and probably a few more. Edward D'Eath knew, but he's dead now. Lord Downey maybe?
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Jul 14, 2008 22:28
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Honestly between Carrot, Moist and Vimes the only real way I can see AM run after Vetinari is some combination of all three. As Patrician though it would have to be Vimes, Carrot coming up as king would be really strange considering how much of Discworld is deconstructing happily ever after kindly king type stories and how much we've heard about Vimes despising kings. I could see Moist doing it somehow if AM was an actual democracy, he's no despot but a talent for screwing with people and having them not mind makes him pretty perfectly electable.
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Jul 20, 2008 21:58
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