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Leospeare posted:I didn't realize it was supposed to be Lovecraftian until much, much later (doh) but there was just too much else going on in that book for it to possibly fit. There is a much clearer take on Lovecraft in, I believe, The Colour of Magic. The Incarnations of Immortality series is pretty good but I'd recommend stopping at around the 7th book (the one about God). The setting is a sci-fi/fantasy mix and most of it doesn't suffer from the author's obsession with 15 year old girls. The 8th book, about the Incarnation of Night, frankly just has WAY too much loving in it for my taste. The teenage hooker protagonist literally screws every character she encounters either in trade for progression on her quest or just for the sake of it. It's not a huge surprise it was self-published, I felt faintly embarrassed to be reading it - there was too much sex for it to be an actual novel but it was so vague it didn't qualify as porn. Dead Like Me was a good series with developing background and decent character development. The MST3K version of Soultaker, as you said, is hilarious, especially some of the fake Robert Z'Daar lines.
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Aug 24, 2008 20:53
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M_E_G. ADI. K posted:The Incarnations of Immortality series is pretty good but I'd recommend stopping at around the 7th book (the one about God). The setting is a sci-fi/fantasy mix and most of it doesn't suffer from the author's obsession with 15 year old girls. I didn't even realize there WAS an eighth book. Personally I'd stop after the fifth. The sixth and seventh weren't all that good.
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Aug 25, 2008 00:50
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Every book in that series is worse than the previous one. The easiest thing to do is to read until you start disliking it, then stop, since the ones after that will just be worse.
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Aug 25, 2008 01:04
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Piell posted:Every book in that series is worse than the previous one. The easiest thing to do is to read until you start disliking it, then stop, since the ones after that will just be worse. This is entirely true.
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Aug 25, 2008 04:41
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So has anyone read Nation yet? Just picked it up yesterday after seeing it in Waterstones (didn't realize it was out so soon), but haven't had the chance to read it.
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Sep 6, 2008 17:49
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tsob posted:So has anyone read Nation yet? Just picked it up yesterday after seeing it in Waterstones (didn't realize it was out so soon), but haven't had the chance to read it. First I've heard of it. Too bad I can't find it online over here yet (Finland). Is it with Moist again?
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Sep 7, 2008 19:17
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Jusupov posted:Is it with Moist again? It's not even discworld. 
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Sep 7, 2008 19:23
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American with sources here, 2/3rds through it. Like it well enough so far, has a kind of Small Gods vibe to it, focusing it's satire at Social Customs instead of Religion, although Religion is never spared. Not Discworld, set in sort of a nineteenth century real world.
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Sep 7, 2008 19:43
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LooseChanj posted:It's not even discworld. Oh. Should've read a bit more about it then I guess.
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Sep 7, 2008 20:14
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LooseChanj posted:It's not even discworld. Does Dr. Rjinswand appear?
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Sep 8, 2008 12:21
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The_Doctor posted:Nothing yet, but I'm really hoping David Jason isn't Moist. Jesus Christ, who could even consider this? Moist is in his late 20s!
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Sep 8, 2008 12:35
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Shonagon posted:Jesus Christ, who could even consider this? Moist is in his late 20s! David Jason is a fantastic comic actor, but even first-season Del-boy would have been terrible casting for Moist.
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Sep 8, 2008 13:44
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Shonagon posted:Jesus Christ, who could even consider this? Moist is in his late 20s! We all thought Rincewind would be 20 years younger than he is in a film too, but eh.
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Sep 8, 2008 13:57
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I'm pretty sure both the director and David Jason himself have said that he won't be appearing in this one. So hopefully a more age-consistant cast is on the cards.
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Sep 8, 2008 16:25
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Wittle Goony Gurl posted:So far I think the list is; Cohen The Barbarian & Crew (dead?) 72-Hour Ahmed
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Sep 8, 2008 20:18
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Smiling Jack posted:Cohen The Barbarian & Crew (dead?) 71 Hour Ahmed.  And I refuse to believe that Cohen died. He's far too leathery.
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Sep 8, 2008 22:09
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Everyone knows Carrot is the true king. He just chooses to ignore it.
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Sep 9, 2008 12:30
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Wittle Goony Gurl posted:71 Hour Ahmed. What's the source of that? I keep thinking it's a reference to something, but I have no idea what. Slime posted:Everyone knows Carrot is the true king. He just chooses to ignore it. And so do they.
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Sep 9, 2008 13:37
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LooseChanj posted:What's the source of that? I keep thinking it's a reference to something, but I have no idea what. I'm re-reading Jingo right now, and while I haven't yet seen it spelt out I have no problem believing that Ahmed is smart enough to notice this.
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Sep 9, 2008 14:24
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I think his name comes from the story that he had a guest visiting him who was really rude and abused Ahmed's hospitality. It's Klatchian custom that you must house a guest and make him feel welcome for 72 hours, however Ahmed killed him on his 71st hour of stay instead of waiting for one more hour. Something along those lines, I think.
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Sep 9, 2008 15:20
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Actually, Ahmed is a policeman, his guest was a criminal who had poisoned the sole well of a village. Ahmed killed him as soon as he found out, without waiting for the 72 hours to expire.
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Sep 9, 2008 15:22
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Slime posted:Everyone knows Carrot is the true king. He just chooses to ignore it. Yeah, at one point Nobby says something like "We've got an heir to the throne, it's Carrot, he has a birthmark and everything, everyone knows that." It's in the scene i Feet of Clay where Dragon King of Arms is introducing Nobby to the social order.
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Sep 9, 2008 17:54
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Sulevis posted:Actually, Ahmed is a policeman, his guest was a criminal who had poisoned the sole well of a village. Ahmed killed him as soon as he found out, without waiting for the 72 hours to expire. Actually, Ahmed amasses quite a bit of evidence before the deed, including interviewing the guy who sold him the poison, and a witness who saw the poisoner poison the poisonees. He did kill him one hour early though, taking advantage of the fact that all Klatchians knew D'regs were anal about that stuff. Why are we spoilering this?
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Sep 9, 2008 19:33
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Nilbop posted:Actually, Ahmed amasses quite a bit of evidence before the deed, including interviewing the guy who sold him the poison, and a witness who saw the poisoner poison the poisonees. He did kill him one hour early though, taking advantage of the fact that all Klatchians knew D'regs were anal about that stuff. Aha. I knew I was forgetting something. Been a while since I read it. And I'm just being on the safe side here.
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Sep 9, 2008 19:37
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Sulevis posted:And I'm just being on the safe side here. It doesn't really fit the criteria of a plot spoiler, so don't worry about it.
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Sep 9, 2008 22:03
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I just read Nation. Am I the first? It's interesting. He's made it real world, like a slightly alternative late Victorian reality. It's very much focusing on what gods are and the nature of belief, and about people and community. It's not particularly funny, though there are some good gags, but it's a really, really good desert-island post-tsunami story. Very pro-science in quite an interesting way. And it's surprisingly moving. OK, I'm pregnant, but I did sniffle quite a bit at a couple of points. I enjoyed it a lot though it may not be what people expect. I don't think anyone will be disappointed unless all they want is more Rincewind, and speaking as an editor of children's fiction, this is one of the best books for children I have read in a long time.
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Sep 10, 2008 09:39
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Your brief summary is a timely reminder to get this book myself (order duly placed). While back in the day it was humour that drew me to Pratchett's books, its their surprising depth[1] that keeps me coming back. As such, I look forward to reading Nation. [1] Okay, they aren't all 'deep' but you know what I mean.
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Sep 10, 2008 10:01
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Entropic posted:Bah, the reluctant successor will be King Carrot I and you all know it. The problem is that the concept of kings just doesn't work for Ankh-Morporkh any more. Vetinari keeps everything running by seeking consensus with the guilds and nobles and having everybody accepting that having Vetinari as a patrician is better than having somebody else. King Carrot would be permanent, not by the choice of others but because of his title. Vimes even states in one of the books, to Carrot incidentally, that even if the king is a good man, then his right hand man has to be good man too and the next man down the chain of command and the next all the way down because if they aren't then the king is just a tyrant. To put it short, a king is an absolute but a patrician isn't. The patrician has to keep everyone happy (or at least not too unhappy) to stay in office but a king doesn't. Even if Carrot would become king, Vimes would eventually kill him, and everybody knows that too.
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Sep 12, 2008 15:04
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The Frozen One posted:Even if Carrot would become king, Vimes would eventually kill him, and everybody knows that too. I throw serious doubt on the credibility of this statement, sir! While I'll grant that Carrot is less a moral compass for Sam now the concept of The Watchman Within has been introduced, I just can't picture a reality where Sam Vimes kills Carrot. It'd be like Sam Vimes striking Sybil. It's a bit of what makes him Vimes. Hell any other Captain of the Night Watch probably would have got Carrot killed by now.
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Sep 12, 2008 16:44
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Nilbop posted:I throw serious doubt on the credibility of this statement, sir! Vimes is, as has often been pointed out, exactly like Old Stoneface and he takes pride in that. Stoneface killed the last king of Ankh-Morpork and he did it outside the law. Nobby has a pretty good understanding of Vimes and the thought of becoming king of Ankh-Morpork frightened the hell out of him because he knew that Vimes would kill any man who would be titled king. Vimes hates kings and everything they stand for with a passion and he knows exactly how Ankh-Morpork will slip back into the way things were, no matter who is king I can certainly picture a reality where Vimes would kill Carrot: where Carrot, whether reluctantly or not, takes the title of King of Ankh-Morpork. There is a huge amount of darkness in Vimes and the only thing that keeps it back is Vimes belief in the law and justice. Kings are abhorrent to Vimes exactly because they are above the law, people to whom different or no rules apply simply because they have a crown on their heads and a few thousand soldiers behind them. If Carrot became king he would be ignoring everything that Vimes taught him about the law and everything Vimes believed in. Carrot becoming Patrician is another matter entirely, but king? Vimes would never stand for having another king of Ankh-Morpork, even if it was Carrot. No matter how well intentioned or just Carrot tried to be it would all eventually boil down to 'you have to do this or that because a supreme being (the king) commands you to. You don't really have a choice and anyways the king knows how to do things better than you.' The Frozen One fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Sep 12, 2008 |
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Sep 12, 2008 17:13
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Finished Nation last night and I love it, it's brilliant there are a few things I could live without for instance the multitude of names of scientists seemed a little contrived for the purposes for giving the place history. But other than that I adored it, currently I think its my favourite non discworld book that he has written.
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Sep 14, 2008 18:03
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Still haven't picked up Nation, but I've managed to find a couple of his older (non-Disc) works and am enjoying them immensely. Specifically Only You Can Save Mankind and Strata. OYCSM is aimed pretty young, but it's a fun kids' book. I'm hoping I can find the other two Johnny books somewhere (Only is the first one). Strata is pretty cool too, but has a different tone than his other stuff. I'm not through it yet, but I like it a lot. It's sort of a straight golden-age sci-fi story so far and very well written. I love Discworld, but it's heartening to know he can handle other story styles with such aplomb.
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Sep 24, 2008 06:57
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I'd think for Vetinari's replacement, Carrot would do fine as the executive, with Moist handling the Civil Service and Vimes being the Judiciary. Vimes wouldn't kill a good king without reason, Old Stoneface did it because it had to be done(wasn't that king an absolute nutter/tyrant?) and nobody else would do it. Heck, have Carrot be elected President rather than crowned king, hes charismatic enough to be. It's like king, only not.
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Sep 30, 2008 21:55
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Ordered Nation and Making Money today. Only one more discworld and then I have to wait with the rest of you. 
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Sep 30, 2008 21:59
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The last king was "Lorenzo the kind" apparently, always smiling, had portraits of himself surrounded by kids. There is a certain implication in that bit of the book but i might be reading too much into the way Vimes describes him.
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Sep 30, 2008 22:36
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LooseChanj posted:Ordered Nation and Making Money today. Only one more discworld and then I have to wait with the rest of you. I'm so happy that I've got a good 10-12 books left to read.
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Sep 30, 2008 23:34
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thebardyspoon posted:The last king was "Lorenzo the kind" apparently, always smiling, had portraits of himself surrounded by kids. There is a certain implication in that bit of the book but i might be reading too much into the way Vimes describes him. I'm pretty sure that's the implication that is intended.
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Oct 1, 2008 01:38
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The Frozen One posted:Vimes is, as has often been pointed out, exactly like Old Stoneface and he takes pride in that. Stoneface killed the last king of Ankh-Morpork and he did it outside the law. Nobby has a pretty good understanding of Vimes and the thought of becoming king of Ankh-Morpork frightened the hell out of him because he knew that Vimes would kill any man who would be titled king. Vimes hates kings and everything they stand for with a passion and he knows exactly how Ankh-Morpork will slip back into the way things were, no matter who is king I disagree. The point made in the books is not that Vimes "hates kings" (he hates most authority figures if you haven't noticed) but that he hates the idea of anybody being considered outside or above the law. The salient point about his ancestor is not that he killed a king, but that he killed a king who was clearly violating the law and yet nobody else would stop him. You actually say this but then double back and say "Vimes hates kings" which is kind of simplistic and wrong.
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Oct 2, 2008 08:44
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Eunabomber posted:I disagree. The point made in the books is not that Vimes "hates kings" (he hates most authority figures if you haven't noticed) but that he hates the idea of anybody being considered outside or above the law. The salient point about his ancestor is not that he killed a king, but that he killed a king who was clearly violating the law and yet nobody else would stop him. You actually say this but then double back and say "Vimes hates kings" which is kind of simplistic and wrong. You are right regarding how it actually is, but I think Frozen One meant Nobby's reaction is to the popular opinion of Vimes within the Discworld - cf. Nobby saying "Vimes'll go spare!" It's easier for us as outside readers to pick up "Stoneface Vimes killed a notorious criminal who happened to be a king", but in the Discworld that filters more down to "Stoneface Vimes killed...a king". And as we all know, a lie can run round the world before the truth has its boots on. Of course, this could all be twaddle, it's been a while since I've read the older Discworld books.
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Oct 2, 2008 09:47
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The Frozen One posted:Vimes is, as has often been pointed out, exactly like Old Stoneface and he takes pride in that. Stoneface killed the last king of Ankh-Morpork and he did it outside the law. Nobby has a pretty good understanding of Vimes and the thought of becoming king of Ankh-Morpork frightened the hell out of him because he knew that Vimes would kill any man who would be titled king. Vimes hates kings and everything they stand for with a passion and he knows exactly how Ankh-Morpork will slip back into the way things were, no matter who is king Honestly, I can't ever see Carrot taking up the job of king. He's always taken Vimes word as law, so if Vimes says Kings are bad, then Kings are bad. If pressed to take the job, he'd give a passionate speech citing thousands of years of Dwarven Law, Troll Law, extolling Ephesian Democracy, with a couple of nods to the great prophet Brutha, and enough random citings of A-M common law that would make Slant's head spin. Although, I'll admit that the idea of a Carrot vs. Moist election for Patrician story could be fun as hell.
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Oct 2, 2008 10:07
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